FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[smedindy]

I thought Johnnies were smart and understood the law of diminishing returns. My fiance worked at St. Ben's for three years and SHE knows that once it gets over 21-28 then it just doesn't matter much anymore.

[wally_wabash]

So while it's easy to be critical of Caruso and UST for their famed "behind the back" 2 point play against Carlton...maybe, just maybe the real observation is that UST is very well prepared on special teams, no matter the opponent or the game situation.   Hats off to Wabash for a great season and they have a very good defense.  The blitzkrieg of special team points in the third quarter was just a back breaker in a game that matched two teams that were very good.

It's easy to be critical of that specific play because it was intentionally embarrassing to an overmatched opponent and was never, ever, ever something that is going to be used in a serious game against a serious opponent.  That's why that play gets crushed. 

The other stuff UST does on specials....fake FGs, onsides kicks, quick kicks...all fair game.  And they've turned that phase into another source of offense, which is impressive.  And it was the knockout punch in today's game.  Really impressive work by the Tommies. 

[smedindy]

Special teams, man. Special teams.

[repete]

A bit simplistic to say all butt-kickings are equal.

Caruso called off the dogs early with a QB change in the third quarter today and no carries for a hurting Roberts in the fourth. At that point, UST was on a path toward 50.

In the regular season game at SJU,Roberts was in there lugging inside the final three minutes of the game. (All good decisions by Caruso, BTW.)

[wally_wabash]

A bit simplistic to say all butt-kickings are equal.

Caruso called off the dogs early with a QB change in the third quarter today and no carries for a hurting Roberts in the fourth. At that point, UST was on a path toward 50.

In the regular season game at SJU,Roberts was in there lugging inside the final three minutes of the game. (All good decisions by Caruso, BTW.)

Are you ever going to acknowledge that SJU plays UST every single year or are you just going to pretend that doesn't exist as it doesn't help your point? 

[repete]

A factor sure, but often overplayed. Yet the domination that got UST up 38-0 in the third before they took their foot off the pedal was beyond that.

[wally_wabash]

A factor sure, but often overplayed. Yet the domination that got UST up 38-0 in the third before they took their foot off the pedal was beyond that.

No really.  Only overplayed from your perspective because it kills the point your'e trying to make, which is why you've expressly ignored it all afternoon.  But whatever.  I think you're done here.  You want somebody in here to concede that SJU is better than Wabash by way of comparison of USTs MOVs over the last two weeks and you're not going to get it.  Not just because I'm stubborn about it, but because it's wrong and it's a lazy analysis that ignores an entire season's worth of data.  That concession isn't coming, so we can move on I think. 

[jamtod]

I was at the game earlier today, and my hats off to the Wabash fans and team on a great season.  Zurek is a real bruiser and the Wabash fans were out in St Paul in full force.  I think the Wabash fans might have been even more intense than the Johnnie fans. I was sitting right on the edge of the groups of fans and had a chance to talk to one guy, dad of a d-lineman. 

It certainly wasn't the prettiest game today, but our special teams and a few big plays were key. 
And if I may weigh in on this... measuring contest between the SJU and Wabash folks, I saw nothing substantial to definitively differentiate either team. It would be a fun one to watch, but will have to be with next year's teams I suppose.

[smedindy]

The fact of the matter is that it doesn't matter if SJU or Wabash is better. Both teams are great teams, and both teams are out of the playoffs.

[jamtod]

I wish I could say that St Thomas fans would travel as well as the crew from Wabash did.  May find out next week if we end up out west.

[wabndy]

Ok- I danced around it before but I can't get it out of my mind now. Does Raeburn take a call from another team? Even if the can't refuse whitewater job isn't available - is there another team out there with an upcoming coaching vacancy that he could take to be a national championship contender? Before I get pounced on- here is the intangible I don't know. How hard is it to recruit today's top student athlete that belongs on a national championship level team to a place like Wabash? I definitely got the sense that was the big reason Creighton left. We got owned by an o line  and d line today that were off the chart insane- from a school in a good size city with a similar academic profile. It's one thing to get blown out by mt Union or whitewater - they are definitely many steps down on the admissions degree of difficulty ladder. Today was different.

My fear is that if he thinks he can recruit such a team at a different school- then he's gone. I don't see him as settling for a once every four year quarterfinal blowout.

[wally_wabash]

I wish I could say that St Thomas fans would travel as well as the crew from Wabash did.  May find out next week if we end up out west.

I'd be shocked if the left side semi isn't at O'Shaughnessy next week. 

[repete]

True, Smed.

And Wally, didn't really expect to convince you and that's fine. For the record, I offered more than MOV, but whatever.

I got sucked into this because of some of the pre-game comments that appear on this board as shots at SJU. Never said Wabash was a bad or unworthy, but tried to make a case why I thought SJU was better than portrayed on this board.

Lazy? A season's worth of data can only go so far in d3, where there's so little interconference play. Seems the third-down conversion number here was overplayed. No. 2 in the nation in 3rd-down defense? Husson. Shoot, St. Scholastica -- an annual first-round AQ walkover -- is in the top 15 nationally.

[wally_wabash]

Ok- I danced around it before but I can't get it out of my mind now. Does Raeburn take a call from another team? Even if the can't refuse whitewater job isn't available - is there another team out there with an upcoming coaching vacancy that he could take to be a national championship contender? Before I get pounced on- here is the intangible I don't know. How hard is it to recruit today's top student athlete that belongs on a national championship level team to a place like Wabash? I definitely got the sense that was the big reason Creighton left. We got owned by an o line  and d line today that were off the chart insane- from a school in a good size city with a similar academic profile. It's one thing to get blown out by mt Union or whitewater - they are definitely many steps down on the admissions degree of difficulty ladder. Today was different.

My fear is that if he thinks he can recruit such a team at a different school- then he's gone. I don't see him as settling for a once every four year quarterfinal blowout.

Not sure I agree with this.  Wabash didn't get run over in the way you're saying.  UST had 2.8 yards per rush today.  From the opening series (when I could still see what was going on), Wabash'd DL was getting into the UST backfield and applying significant pressure (handled really well by Gould, but pressure was there).  On the other side Wabash averaged 4.2 yards per rush today.  Only gave up two sacks.  No- Wabash didn't lose today because of dudes.  We had the dudes. 

[wabndy]

Thanks Wally, hard to really get a sense of that when you are watching video at two frames per minute and listening to opponent radio (thankfully my tunein app got the station). Two key plays for Wabash- the called back Zurek TD for holding and the no safety call that the tommies turned into a 99 yard TD drive. Did anybody get a better sense if those calls were worth griping about?

Also learned for the first time today that apparently a halfback can't throw the ball away even if standing on the numbers.