FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[sigma one]

Credit Creighton and Raeburn for taking Wabash football up a notch.  No disrespect to Carlson, whose teams were always competitive.  The Wabash teams of the late 70s and early 80s were special.  One of them played, and lost, in the Stagg Bowl.  The coaches from that era went on to try to see what they could do at a higher level, and to bigger salaries.
     Both Creighton and Raeburn left after suffering tough, and lopsided, defeats in the quarterfinals:  Elite 8.  In my view, Wabash is something of an outlier:  a small, academically rigorous, liberal arts college in rural Indiana.  Getting beyond the final 8, some might say, is going to be difficult unless a one-in-a-lifetime group comes together.  For some, including me, that's OK.  For the players and coaches (and some fans--don't know how many) it's not enough.  They should feel that way. 
     Wabash has set up ambitious coaches to try for the golden ring, and who can blame them for that.  How man other DIII schools offer the chance to be among the top 8-20 programs in the nation on a regular basis despite the challenges?  Sure, some coaches at successful programs stay, but perhaps Creighton and Raeburn thought that for them to guide Wabash inside the top 10 several times was as much as they could reasonably hope for.  And to do so launched them to new opportunities.
      With its tradition of excellence, Wabash will be fine.  A strong core of players returns, including multiple all-NCAC and all-North region selections.
       Back in the playoffs?  We'll see.  But the odds are in their favor. 

[Li'l Giant]

EMU was death valley when Creighton chose to go there.  Same will be the case with ER and his poor choice. I am afraid when ER realizes he is in "Creighton/EMU land" ... it will be too late.  Both ... my view ... have detoured their career.

D III outstanding younger coaches in outstanding D III Programs, need to quit reading their own clippings ... they almost need a slave in their chariot whispering in their ear.  I am sorry, but both these gentlemen (my view) were blinded by their self view of their importance and abilities ... superman complex.  I am super.  Must get my way.  I can do anything. 

It just that this combo (younger/good ability/successful in a successful environment also seems to have the downside (for some) of blindness to where you are and what in face can be done verses unique enviornment.  A not so recent Wabash Coach who felt the mojo and jumped to schools including Miiiishigan, Ball State, Kansas S.............. have opined that Wabash was the best job they ever had.  Perhaps not the best paying.  Perhaps not the "I run my own department" without any College say coming from other areas of the College.  Perhaps not going to lead to the fast "Kelly-esk" track to ND (he was D II lucky  Coach as well as talented). But overall ... if head football coaching on the college level is your schtick ... the Little Giant environment is one of the best.  Good coachable students.  Good dedicated assistants (often also holding positions ... which assists with pay issues ... in the "other" part of the College world which helps in securing the quality you need). Players without all the baggage and discipline issues which is so destructive .  Fans who are very supportive and positively enthusiastic.  College support. SO ... if you can understand it, understand the heart beat, appreciate the values that are there and the part you play ... ... ... then schools like Wabash are where you should be and stay and carefully analyze your career steps (with the slave speaking in your ear) before you jump to an EMU or ER's new place in "cut and shoot" GA with an EMU history of football  ... before opting for the song ... I am Great ... give me chocolate cake ... I get more money ... I can make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.    I have genuine admiration for both gentlemen's abilities ... just don't drink their kool aid.  I may be wrong ... but what the hey ... I like grape.

Late to this party but the only word I can use to describe this take is "basura".

[bashbrother]

Wow..  Waving the white flag and lowering expectations a little early.. 

I must be one of those that ALWAYS believes we're going to get there!

[USee]

I think the notion that Wabash could lose it's head coach and defensive coordinator and the LG's will keep right on ticking is a little naive. It is possible as the cupboard is not bare but there will certainly be speed bumps. Raeburn lost the only game in a decade to Depauw in his first year after taking over for CC. It really took him 3 seasons to get Wabash back to it's highest level. I expect Wabash to be very good but I don't think it's a slam dunk they will pick things up where they left off. 

[sigma one]

Just watch.

[Joe Wally]

Another report on the EMU saga:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2016/04/emu_faculty_students_support_d.html#incart_river_home

[wally_wabash]

Another report on the EMU saga:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2016/04/emu_faculty_students_support_d.html#incart_river_home

Sad.  It's really too bad that EMU is the flashpoint for this kind of nonsense.  I'm sure you can go to just about any school in any division and find some population of faculty and students that think sports, especially football, are a waste of resources. 

Would love to see some counterreporting on this and hear from students/faculty that don't agree with this position. 

[jknezek]

Another report on the EMU saga:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2016/04/emu_faculty_students_support_d.html#incart_river_home

Sad.  It's really too bad that EMU is the flashpoint for this kind of nonsense.  I'm sure you can go to just about any school in any division and find some population of faculty and students that think sports, especially football, are a waste of resources. 

Would love to see some counterreporting on this and hear from students/faculty that don't agree with this position.

The problem you have is judging by their attendance at games, there aren't very many to find. At least in relation to football...

[Bombers798891]

Sad.  It's really too bad that EMU is the flashpoint for this kind of nonsense.  I'm sure you can go to just about any school in any division and find some population of faculty and students that think sports, especially football, are a waste of resources.

But I don't think thoughts like this exist in a vacuum. Meaning, I don't think (many) people just go in with a "football is stupid" mentality. But I think there are times where they see areas where that money might be better spent, serve a larger portion of student body, and better advance the university's core mission.

[ExTartanPlayer]

Another report on the EMU saga:

http://www.mlive.com/news/ann-arbor/index.ssf/2016/04/emu_faculty_students_support_d.html#incart_river_home

Sad.  It's really too bad that EMU is the flashpoint for this kind of nonsense.  I'm sure you can go to just about any school in any division and find some population of faculty and students that think sports, especially football, are a waste of resources. 

I think that's probably true, but does that mean that the people who feel this way at EMU are wrong?

The folks quoted in the article were all quite careful to compliment the coaches while noting that having a Division I football program at their specific school was probably a futile gesture.  I'd also note that several Wabash Men here have uttered things along the lines of "Chris Creighton can turn that program around if anyone can" - which may well be true - but if he cannot turn the program around, isn't that an indication that perhaps EMU is one of the places where the battle truly cannot be won?

I think the folks advocating for EMU dropping football have recognized that they're trying to masquerade as an FBS team, but they're located in the shadow of a much larger FBS team just a few miles down the road, and that realistically, they're probably never going to get enough fan support (either local fan support or student fan support) for the program to sustain itself.  Surely, Mr. Ypsi can speak more accurately about this, but I surmise that virtually all of the local yokels in southeastern Michigan would rather tailgate the UM game and/or sit at home and watch the UM game and/or drive up to East Lansing for the MSU game than attend an EMU game.

[wally_wabash]

Do you guys think it's about the money or about the wins?  Is this story happening if EMU won 4-5 games most of the time?  To whit- would anybody at EMU care if the team DID win more than they do?

[Dr. Acula]

At first I thought the quotes in the article regarding it being an impossible battle were a cop out.  But when I took a moment and tried to imagine what a MAC school here in metro Columbus would be like I realized that would be the same outcome as EMU.  You'd have no chance to draw fans or interest in that scenario so why would EMU be different?  You can win, you can make the games affordable and fun, but you can't overcome generations of tradition.  People grow up watching UM/OSU with their parents and grandparents.  It's ingrained in their lives.  When your campus is in the shadow of that giant I don't know how you get out of it. 

[Bombers798891]

Would anybody at EMU care if the team DID win more than they do?

I've said this before and I'll say it again: People who really like and care about sports vastly overestimate the number of people who legitimately share that opinion. I say legitimately, because "care" is sort of a squishy term in conversations like this. I think people care in the abstract sense that, well, the football team exists as a part of the school, so if you went around and gave people the choice between that team winning somewhere between 0-2 games as opposed to 4-5, they would certainly choose the latter. Because in that hypothetical, there's no associated cost.

What we're really trying to answer when we ask "would people care if the team did X" is: Would people be willing to accept the inherent costs associated with turning a team that has won 2 or fewer games in 17 of its 41 seasons into one that could win 4-5 games most of the time, given what it would mean for other parts of the college?  I suspect that the answer there is no

[jknezek]

Do you guys think it's about the money or about the wins?  Is this story happening if EMU won 4-5 games most of the time?  To whit- would anybody at EMU care if the team DID win more than they do?

I think it's about the fan support, which is about generating money, but is also about all those ancillaries that make spending money on football worthwhile, creating a community and school pride and generating deeper alumni connections and so on. In EMU's case, there isn't any fan support. None. Hasn't been for years. Granted they've sucked for years, but now you are chicken or egg. Can you recruit better playing in an empty stadium and getting beat constantly, and if you could, would it work out? Or can you get fans into seats and generate all those ancillary joys football brings to a campus if you consistently suck.

Considering they are most likely going to be in violation of this NCAA bylaw for FBS after next season (again, after being in violation for years prior to 2014's magically almost mediocre numbers):

Average at least 15,000 in actual or paid attendance for all home football contests over a
rolling two-year period. [Bylaw 20.9.9.3]

It's only the NCAA's arbitrary application of their own rules, or a massive distribution of wealth from the University to pay for seats that no one is sitting in, that allows them to stay in FBS anyway. Attendance numbers are in the low to mid thousands for home games last year and all years but 2014, which is a very clear outlier.

Attendance numbers found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Eastern_Michigan_Eagles_football_team

Is there anything about this program to you, other than Coach Creighton being there, that suggests FBS is the right spot for them? No fan support, a stadium ringed by a track, no recent winning history, and massive expenditures to keep the privilege of being in FBS intact. Other than vanity, and holding onto the MAC, what is the purpose of paying a lot of money to play bad football in front of no fans that largely prefer watching other FBS football teams?

Do I suggest DII? No I don't. Either drop football and change conferences, or go FCS and change conferences. In both cases the rest of your sports, which are varying degrees of competitive in DI, can stay there. You don't have to have FBS football to be a directional state university (Central Arkansas, Central CT, East TN, Eastern Ill, Eastern KY, etc..), or even a flagship state university (North Dakota, U of Delaware, U of NH, etc...). There is no shame in finding the right spot for your program, especially a spot that doesn't cause you to bleed ridiculous amounts of money that could be used to do something like educate your student body.

[sigma one]

The shadow of To Be or Not To Be won't make recruiting any easier.  Or given the current status of the program, will the specter of changing, or dropping football, really matter?  It can't be a pleasant experience facing a recruit who you believe can make the team better and having to answer questions about the future viability of the sport on campus.
     Given this, it would make it better for everyone if EMU would decide in short order what is going to happen over, say, the next 3-5 years--and then laying our a plan so that coaches and players can decide what to do with their lives.