FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[HCAlum86]

Without saying too much, I have heard quite a few (beyond) negative things about the players and staff at Southwestern, Denison's non-conference opponent. Has anyone else heard anything similar?

I don't know anything about the people at Southwestern.  I do know they won seven games last year and these kinds of inter-regional games are great when we can get them.  It's a significant step up in non-league play for Denison...a challenge accepted that seems to indicate that the Big Red are more and more comfortable and confident with their winning ways.  I think it's a really interesting game between an NCAC contender and a defending conference champion.

No doubt. Talent-wise I have heard nothing but great things. But I've also heard that the school is acting as a JuCo of sorts and many of the players and even coaches are on their "last chance."

I heard this from a Hardin-Simmons alum, so it may be biased. That's why I kind of put out the feeler on here.

[sigma one]

I place only modest trust in the yearly college rankings by U S News and World Reports.  But for general purposes the rankings give a reasonable snapshot of a variety of colleges and universities.  U S NEWS's methodology takes a number of factors into account with academic quality significantly included.  Last year, the rankings for National Liberal Arts Colleges lists the colleges in the North Coast Athletic Conference as follows:

          Oberlin              #24
          Kenyon                27
          Denison               51
          DePauw               51  (there are quite a few ties for positions)
          Wooster              62
          Wabash               65
          Allegheny            77
          OWU                   95
          Hiram                149
          Wittenberg         154
I figure schools within 10 or so places of one another once going beyond the top 20 or so are roughly equal academically.  That's not parsing the numbers too finely.
     Southwestern U. tied with OWU at #95.  Supposing that student-athlete academic qualities roughly mirror those of the general student body, Southwestern fits into the kinds of schools Denison would want to schedule.   So, unless something at Southwestern is wildly out of sorts, I think talk of a kind of rogue institution is  unfounded. Of course, almost everyone thinks his/her school should be ranked higher. 
     In 2016, Southwestern finished 7-3, playing in the four-school Southwest Conference with Trinity, Texas Lutheran, and Austin.  This year they will play a very different schedule against the American Southwest Conference--with East Texas Baptist, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Hardin-Simmons, McMurry, and Sul Ross St all figuring to be tough opponents (perhaps others in the conference as well).
     As a first game of the season, Denison v. Southwestern should be a terrific inter-regional challenge.  Coming off an 8-2 season and a win v. Wittenberg, Denison returns all its skill-position players, including a very good QB/receiver combo.  On defense, they return 7/8 starters.  Someone might know who returns for Southwestern.   
     . 

[HCAlum86]

I place only modest trust in the yearly college rankings by U S News and World Reports.  But for general purposes the rankings give a reasonable snapshot of a variety of colleges and universities.  U S NEWS's methodology takes a number of factors into account with academic quality significantly included.  Last year, the rankings for National Liberal Arts Colleges lists the colleges in the North Coast Athletic Conference as follows:

          Oberlin              #24
          Kenyon                27
          Denison               51
          DePauw               51  (there are quite a few ties for positions)
          Wooster              62
          Wabash               65
          Allegheny            77
          OWU                   95
          Hiram                149
          Wittenberg         154
I figure schools within 10 or so places of one another once going beyond the top 20 or so are roughly equal academically.  That's not parsing the numbers too finely.
     Southwestern U. tied with OWU at #95.  Supposing that student-athlete academic qualities roughly mirror those of the general student body, Southwestern fits into the kinds of schools Denison would want to schedule.   So, unless something at Southwestern is wildly out of sorts, I think talk of a kind of rogue institution is  unfounded. Of course, almost everyone thinks his/her school should be ranked higher. 
     In 2016, Southwestern finished 7-3, playing in the four-school Southwest Conference with Trinity, Texas Lutheran, and Austin.  This year they will play a very different schedule against the American Southwest Conference--with East Texas Baptist, Mary Hardin-Baylor, Hardin-Simmons, McMurry, and Sul Ross St all figuring to be tough opponents (perhaps others in the conference as well).
     As a first game of the season, Denison v. Southwestern should be a terrific inter-regional challenge.  Coming off an 8-2 season and a win v. Wittenberg, Denison returns all its skill-position players, including a very good QB/receiver combo.  On defense, they return 7/8 starters.  Someone might know who returns for Southwestern.   
     .

GREAT stuff, Sigma One. Appreciate the response.

[Joe Wally]

Wabash posted its roster of incoming freshmen, as well as two sophomores that came over from St. Joe's.

[HCAlum86]

Are we all reporting this week?

[DPU3619]

Are we all reporting this week?

Most of the Indiana schools are in. DePauw, Wabash, Anderson, Franklin, Hanover, RHIT, and Trine are all already back.

[HCAlum86]

The air is getting more crisp by the day, and the pads are going to start cracking soon. I. Love. Fall.

[wally_wabash]

Happy Kickoff Day, gang!

[HCAlum86]

Happy Kickoff Day, gang!

It's the most wonderful tiiiime of the yearrrrr

[HCAlum86]

Got out to watch camp last week. I loved what I saw on defense. Going to certainly miss Fleetion in the secondary. But we have a couple underclassmen playing very well.

- Danny Robinson returns from a 1st team all NCAC year. I think much of his continued success will be contingent on how well we are able to pass the ball. He's a great RB, but it's always easier with an effective passing game.

- I LOVE LOVE LOVE Horace Johnson at OLB. He's still a little raw so I'm hoping he's been working on his technique, but the sophomore can do some real damage from the end of the line and appears much bigger in real life than the 6-2, 215 lbs they have him listed on the roster.

- Randy Tucker is the only QB on our roster with any game experience, so we shall see how that plays out.

The only advantage I see for Earlham going into week 1 is that they will already have a game under their belt by the time we meet. Otherwise, I feel VERY confident that Hiram wins by a couple touchdowns. If we can get some stability at QB, I think we can post a nice record this year. Big if, though.

[smedindy]

Any word on the QB position for Wabash? Who is slated as #1 right now?

[sigma one]

The big ?.  The guy who showed well in the spring is not on the 2017 roster.  A transfer junior college QB from California, who got some press in the NCAC Media Guide, is also absent from the roster.  Austin Nightingale, a junior, was a backup last year; he got a fair number of second-half snaps, but he did not throw a single pass.  As Wally Wabash pointed out earlier, there is no QB on the team who has thrown a pass in an intercollegiate game.    There's a freshman, who based on his work in h.s., might be a good prospect:  Derek O'Connor from Roncalli in Indy.  He led his team to a 4A state championship last year.  Also, Austin Murphy, a sophomore, came in last year from Arizona with high promise.
     When Don Morel was OC, he played two QBs for quite a while before settling on Connor Rice.  Could be Wabash will try several in the Albion game to see what happens.  But could also be they role the dice.  The problem with going with a freshman is the reduced number of pre-season practices.
     Years ago Wabash went into a season with no clear-cut QB and almost no experience at the position   Then Matt Hudson emerged from deep on the depth chart to become a three-time all-NCAC first team performer and two-time conference offensive player of the year.  For this year, there's only hope that a good one will emerge--perhaps hope disguised as optimism.
     































 


     

[Old Gold Tiger]

The rise of the Denison program in 2016 was impressive.  Kickoff gives them high marks ahead of both Wabash and DePauw.  Gebele is a marquee athlete at QB, for sure.  But their line play and overall physicality leave me wondering if they can be as competitive as touted.  An OK DePauw defense looked like the '85 Bears against them last season.  Denison will need to be stronger up front to beat 'bash and DePauw.

I won't pretend to be objective, but I do think the DePauw team preview is a bit unenthusiastic even if their conference ranking is fair relative to returning talent.  Everyone will say DPU lost QB Hunt, who accounted for so much of the offense, including all five touchdowns and 400 yards of offense in the Bell game.  But the program grows stronger with many other players around the QB and a solid O line.  Some very good young QBs are in camp, among them Chase Andries and Cam Haynes, who may see increased action as the season progresses.

I think the Wabash guys would agree that a Wabash preview that doesn't mention DePauw obviously misses a high priority in that camp right now, not to mention some surprising scrutiny / criticism of the head coach voiced on this board following last year's outcome.  Somewhat similar to DePauw, the QB situation will be interesting to follow in C-ville even if 'bash is not quite as QB-centered as DePauw has been.

Witt is the clear favorite.  No surprise there.

[HCAlum86]

The rise of the Denison program in 2016 was impressive.  Kickoff gives them high marks ahead of both Wabash and DePauw.  Gebele is a marquee athlete at QB, for sure.  But their line play and overall physicality leave me wondering if they can be as competitive as touted.  An OK DePauw defense looked like the '85 Bears against them last season.  Denison will need to be stronger up front to beat 'bash and DePauw.

I won't pretend to be objective, but I do think the DePauw team preview is a bit unenthusiastic even if their conference ranking is fair relative to returning talent.  Everyone will say DPU lost QB Hunt, who accounted for so much of the offense, including all five touchdowns and 400 yards of offense in the Bell game.  But the program grows stronger with many other players around the QB and a solid O line.  Some very good young QBs are in camp, among them Chase Andries and Cam Haynes, who may see increased action as the season progresses.

I think the Wabash guys would agree that a Wabash preview that doesn't mention DePauw obviously misses a high priority in that camp right now, not to mention some surprising scrutiny / criticism of the head coach voiced on this board following last year's outcome.  Somewhat similar to DePauw, the QB situation will be interesting to follow in C-ville even if 'bash is not quite as QB-centered as DePauw has been.

Witt is the clear favorite.  No surprise there.

I actually agree with you. If it were not for Denison's quasi-meteoric rise last season, I believe this Tiger team would've been the story. I was very impressed with them. I would "Venn Diagram" the conference, if you will...

I think each of these "sections" will win some games in the portion of the diagram in front of them

P.S. I apologize for the absurdly small font on the image, just zoom in. Me and technology aren't the best of friends

[wally_wabash]

Denison's 2016 didn't come out of nowhere.  The "rise" that you guys are talking about has been happening over the last 4-5 years under Coach Hatem.  2016 is when they definitively cleared the gap between Witt/Wabash and the rest of the league.  I know I'm playing revisionist here, but if Gebele was right in the last month of the season, they'd have (at least) split the Wabash/DePauw games and gone to the tournament.  I know the game in Greencastle got away from them, but that kind of thing can happen when the best player in the league is at 50%.  The Big Red are in the top tier of the league right now.  They have the best player in the league, they have staff continuity, and they have a zillion returning starters.  They have such a huge head start in 2017 on Witt (ton of lost starters, new OC/DC), Wabash (who's playing QB?), and DePauw (also QB and just massive attrition from graduation).  The other teams can catch up, but they all started way behind where Denison started two weeks ago.