FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Geezer Citizen]

I find that I get as much satisfaction seeing Wabash beat Witt as I do seeing Wabash beat Depauw. I just don't particularly like the way that Witt has a disturbing habit of playing rough after the whistle. That has to be the way that they are coached..

[sigma one]

With 4 games remaining for all NCAC teams--Denison, Ohio Wesleyan, Wabash, and Wittenberg are all 4-1 in the conference.  Wabash appears to have the upper hand with wins over the other three.
       Denison still has to play both Wittenberg and OWU.  OWU has both Denison and Wittenberg.  Wittenberg has Denison and OWU.  And OWU still has to visit Wooster as well.  Confusing, yes.  So, it's entirely possible that the Big Red, Bishops, and Tigers may all have at least two conference losses.  Or one of them could finish with one loss; and if Wabash wins out, tie for the NCAC title.  Wabash should have the inside track with games remaining with Oberlin, Kenyon, and Hiram:  games which they should win, but no guarantee.  Of course, the LGs end with DePauw in Greencastle, where the Indiana Tigers will be primed for an upset. 
      This is all to say that the playoff berth is still quite up in the air.  Should be an interesting last month.
   

[HCAlum86]

I find that I get as much satisfaction seeing Wabash beat Witt as I do seeing Wabash beat Depauw. I just don't particularly like the way that Witt has a disturbing habit of playing rough after the whistle. That has to be the way that they are coached..

It was that way even when I was there. I participated in an all star game in which the MLB from Witt was ejected from the game.... an all star game...

[wally_wabash]

I have to weigh in a bit here on Wabash-Witt 2019.  Really a strong game from Wabash, bouncing back from whatever that was that happened in Wooster.  Big keys:

- They tightened up in the first quarter and gave the offense a chance to run as designed without chasing down a deficit. 
- Really good things happen when Liam Thompson gets out of the pocket.  The last time Wabash had this kind of run/pass threat was with Chase Belton and it took Chase a couple of years to really nail down when to keep it and when to throw it.  Thompson's decision making when he gets flushed out is really advanced for his experience level. 
- One Liam Thompson play specifically, the 4th and G on the 2 in the 4th quarter.  That touchdown run was all guts.  Good call to go for it there also. Under 6 minutes to play, up 4.  Go and get it, and you've pretty much ended the game.  A field goal there is not automatic (even though Nehrig has been good this year) and those points don't change the equation for your defense- still have to defend the end zone.  Go for it and don't get it, you've got Witt with 95+ yards to go to score and I think based on what you'd seen from Froelich to that point in the game, you're comfortable daring him to drive the field.  S
- Avant made huge plays when Wabash needed them most, which has sort of turned into his thing.  He really picked up Ike James on Saturday who wasn't able to go.   
- Have to tip the hat to Jaheem Washington who made several really great runs.  And not just stuff that was blown wide open either, he did a lot individually to get free.  Not sure he's had a better game as a Tiger, tbh. 

I'm rewatching that critical 4th and G play by Wabash.  Smart call to run a roll out pass there.  Witt was collapsing the Wabash OL all day and 2 yards against a goal line package was going to be hard to get.  Usually this is an Ivan Martinez situation, but it doesn't look to me like he's in the pattern.  It looks like maybe Hamman is supposed to pick Sullivan open, but that doesn't work right.  I'm not sure somebody didn't run the wrong play there.  Anyway, nothing's open and it was all guts for Liam Thompson to barrel his way in because Witt had that thing defended really well.  Big time play. 

Now, as has been noted, Wabash has h2h wins over the other 1-loss teams in NCAC play which is tremendous.  Wabash is in the pole position here, and they just need to win the back four.  The next three really shouldn't pose a huge problem.  The finale at DePauw is where anything can happen.  DePauw has been more bad than good this year, but when they've been good, they've been plenty respectable (close loss vs. Witt, pretty dominant win over Wooster).  The Bell game is not your run of the mill road game, but Wabash hasn't looked great away from C'ville and hopefully that won't carry on through Week 11.  Going to be pretty high stakes for Wabash down in Greencastle in four weeks. 

[sigma one]

Four weeks remain in the regular season.  Everyone dances this week, with Denison and Wittenberg in a crucial contest.

Allegheny (1-5) at DePauw (3-3)
The Gators make the long trip to Greencastle trying to build on their first win last week.  Their 5 losses are to teams that are a combined 22-8 so far.  DPU has been up and down:  They have a good win v. Wooster and 2, meh wins, both 21-7, v. Kenyon and Hiram.  But they played Witt close.  Wally gives the Indiana Tigers the edge by 10.5.  This game will tell us a lot about both teams as they prepare for a stretch run.

Denison (5-1) at Wittenberg (4-2). Let's start with Wally's take.  He has this game EVEN.  With the exception of their loss v. Wabash, Denison has scored at least 38 pts in every game.  Witt's offense has struggled at times, scoring 8, 14, 17 and 13 pts.  Both have Ohio Wesleyan (5-1) still on the schedule.   Should be one of the best games of the weekend.

Ohio Wesleyan (5-1) at Hiram (0-6)  OWU's defense has been stout.  With the exception of the loss to Wabash, they have allowed no more than 13 pts in any game.  Hiram has scored only 38 pts all season.  Wally says the Bishops by 30.5.  OWU should easily be sitting at 6-1.

Wooster (3-3) at Kenyon (3-3).  Both teams enter at .500, and that's where the comparison ends.  Wooster has a signature win v. Wabash, and last week led Denison going into the 4th qtr, only to give up 21 points and lose 38-21.  Kenyon has 3 wins by a total of 9 pts v. teams that are a combined 1-17, but, hey, they are still wins after going Ofer for a couple of years.  Wally gives the sizeable advantage to the Scots by 30.5.

Wabash (4-2) at Oberlin (1-5)   Wabash comes off an important win v. Wittenberg, while Oberlin forced multiple turnovers to defeat Hiram last Saturday.  The Yoemen have scored a total of 17 pts and have been shut out 3X.  Wabash has the inside track for the NCAC title because of wins v Denison, OWU, and Wittenberg.  Wally sets the margin at 33.5.  Will the LGs have a let down after last week and will the game be closer than that?   

[HCAlum86]

^ FWIW Stanford resigned yesterday. He's a good guy but this can hardly be surprising when you pride yourself as an Air Raid aficionado and then go out and average 6.5 PPG. 

I will keep you all posted on the status of the coaching search - but early word is that Hiram has their eyes on a target whose name you would all recognize; would really be a dynamic move if it happens.

[sigma one]

I have several names in my head.  I'm eager to see if any of them are named as coaching possibilities at Hiram.  If I'm right about them, Hiram would have to promise a bigger commitment to football than it appears to have at present.   

[kraken]

The coaching change at Hiram was long overdue. Their new AD (as of last winter)is a Mt. Union guy, though wrestling is his field of expertise. I was curious as to how much rope he would give Stanford.
My kid plays on the team, so I guess I have a certain perspective. It wasn't so much the losing, but the manner in which they lost. They have (and have had) athletes. What's been missing is discipline and fundamentals, consistently applied.
I hope the administration gets behind this new hire. 

[formerd3db]

^ FWIW Stanford resigned yesterday. He's a good guy but this can hardly be surprising when you pride yourself as an Air Raid aficionado and then go out and average 6.5 PPG. 

I will keep you all posted on the status of the coaching search - but early word is that Hiram has their eyes on a target whose name you would all recognize; would really be a dynamic move if it happens.

The coaching change at Hiram was long overdue. Their new AD (as of last winter)is a Mt. Union guy, though wrestling is his field of expertise. I was curious as to how much rope he would give Stanford.
My kid plays on the team, so I guess I have a certain perspective. It wasn't so much the losing, but the manner in which they lost. They have (and have had) athletes. What's been missing is discipline and fundamentals, consistently applied.
I hope the administration gets behind this new hire.

Change is always hard, even with a nice and good guy such as Stanford.  However, while nobody likes losing and aside from that,  sometimes such change just has to be done-a new direction, attitude and atmosphere has to be undertaken.  Without knowing the inside story as you do, perhaps Stanford just realized that as well.  Anyway, I hope, as you said, that the administration of the College will be very supportive of the next HC.  Best wishes to your son in his career there.

BTW. I hadn't looked at it before, however, I was surprised that Hiram's enrollment is under 1,000.  Do you and HCAlum think the change and with the new AD with respect to student-athletes might help in that regard?

[HCAlum86]

^ FWIW Stanford resigned yesterday. He's a good guy but this can hardly be surprising when you pride yourself as an Air Raid aficionado and then go out and average 6.5 PPG. 

I will keep you all posted on the status of the coaching search - but early word is that Hiram has their eyes on a target whose name you would all recognize; would really be a dynamic move if it happens.

The coaching change at Hiram was long overdue. Their new AD (as of last winter)is a Mt. Union guy, though wrestling is his field of expertise. I was curious as to how much rope he would give Stanford.
My kid plays on the team, so I guess I have a certain perspective. It wasn't so much the losing, but the manner in which they lost. They have (and have had) athletes. What's been missing is discipline and fundamentals, consistently applied.
I hope the administration gets behind this new hire.

Change is always hard, even with a nice and good guy such as Stanford.  However, while nobody likes losing and aside from that,  sometimes such change just has to be done-a new direction, attitude and atmosphere has to be undertaken.  Without knowing the inside story as you do, perhaps Stanford just realized that as well.  Anyway, I hope, as you said, that the administration of the College will be very supportive of the next HC.  Best wishes to your son in his career there.

BTW. I hadn't looked at it before, however, I was surprised that Hiram's enrollment is under 1,000.  Do you and HCAlum think the change and with the new AD with respect to student-athletes might help in that regard?

Actually, next year the enrollment is projected at around 1,150 - with about 900 on campus.

Verlotta, our new president, is doing wonders with fundraising, raising $60 million this year alone and, for reference, we raised $60 million in total from 2009 - 2015. I sit on a couple committees, so I'll try to be non-descript, but the school wants to focus on retention and actually lowering our acceptance rate more to a range similar to Depauw or Wooster - but not a Kenyon lol. Right now, Witt is the only school in the conference with a higher acceptance rate than us.

In that vein, the coaching search is likely going to lead to someone with a commitment to Cleveland, Pittsburgh, and Columbus as its recruiting centers, as I've been in several meetings wherein trustees voice their displeasure that over 50 recruits are being brought in, knowing that only 15-20 will return as sophomores. The psychological affect of a high turnover rate is noted and will require a culture change.

Both early targets - from what I'm gathering - know Northeast Ohio and are proven winners. I would expect to see: 1) An allocation of resources to the football program previously unseen, and 2) a commitment to retention of student athletes. In particular, several of the members from our '87 team that made the playoffs are mad and, fortunately for us, several of them are immensely successful and seem ready to put their wallet where there mouth is.

With all due respect to the state and its students, it's fundamentally unfair to recruit a kid from Florida that otherwise wouldn't meet the school's academic standards, see him struggle to tread water in the classroom, then leave after a semester.

[Pat Coleman]

Is 900 on-campus meaning 900 in dorms, or 900 learning in traditional on-campus settings with the rest in some remote learning program?

[HCAlum86]

Is 900 on-campus meaning 900 in dorms, or 900 learning in traditional on-campus settings with the rest in some remote learning program?

Hiram owns the apartments on townhomes on its campus, and students living in off-campus housing is rare. So yeah, 900 in dorms, East Hall Apartment, and the Townhomes.

Most commuters are from surrounding communities

[sigma one]

HCALUM86

Good to see that Hiram is thinking hard about its football program.  For years, I've noticed that the roster has been studded with student-athletes from far away (Florida in particular)  I've noticed year after year that many of the players from those states did not return the following year. I recognize the need to grow the student body, or at least not shrink it, in the face of declining high school graduation rate in Ohio, Pennsylvania and surrounding states..  But the numbers of far-away players still always seemed high to me.  By the way, Wittenberg has 19 players from Florida on its roster this year, and they've had similar numbers the last 4 or 5 years.  Allegheny has also gone farther afield in recent years, not being interested or able (don't know which) in containing its recruiting base primarily to the WPIAL and other western Pennsylvania leagues. 
     What I don't know, of course, is what kinds of discussions there are between the football coaches (and ADs) and the folks in Admissions.  On the one hand, there is an understandable desire to spread the recruiting base of all students; one the other hand, there's the expense, financial and in terms of attrition, that can follow.  Out of necessity many schools have broadened there recruiting territories.  The added benefit of geographic diversity, and ethnic diversity in some cases, is highly desirable.  At places like Kenyon and Oberlin the student populations have always been geographically diverse because of their rightful claim to academic excellence.  They attract students nationwide without searching them out.  Places like Witt and Hiram have had to use another strategy, going hard after student-athletes and spreading their recruiting focus in the process.  The good news in a way is that those Florida and Texas athletes are often really good; the downside is that they are sometimes academically marginal.  This is to paint with a broad brush, but it seems to me this is the pattern.  I'm not insinuating that Hiram, Witt (and other NCAC schools) are academically weak, but they do not have the national reputation of Oberlin and Kenyon.
     To take the other side, Wabash's recruiting base has always been close to home, with the vast majority of students and student-athletes from Indiana.  They have a close relationship with high schools and an alumni base firmly committed to help  with recruiting  students with a strong academic record, many of whom are also pretty good athletes.  Sprinkled through the roster historically have been a few students from contiguous states and a few more from farther away.  Since joining the NCAC 20 years ago, a healthy number of Wabash's football players have come from Arizona and Texas.  This results from Wabash very selectively going after good student-athletes from these states.  In the last two years, I've  noticed almost no recruits from these two states; I don't know why--whether the College and the football staff has decided to do things differently or whether they are not finding the right students.   This year there is not a single freshman student from Arizona or Texas on the roster.  There is one student from Florida, and he is being productive as a WR.  I'll not go into detail other factors that help schools decide how far and wide to throw their net, including the expense of doing so year after year.  To me, it will be interesting to see whether the small number of far-away students who have sprinkled the Wabash roster and who have definitely enhanced Wabash competitiveness over the last two decades  has become a phenomenon of the past.
     Well, I've gotten a bit off track on the Hiram situation.  I hope this is an opportunity to think hard about the place of football on campus, most importantly beyond purely wins and losses, but an important tool in helping to solidify the student population.  A hundred or more students who play football, and who stick around to increase retention, can only benefit Hiram in terms of more wins and a better financial bottom line.
   
     
     
       
       

[HCAlum86]

HCALUM86

Good to see that Hiram is thinking hard about its football program.  For years, I've noticed that the roster has been studded with student-athletes from far away (Florida in particular)  I've noticed year after year that many of the players from those states did not return the following year. I recognize the need to grow the student body, or at least not shrink it, in the face of declining high school graduation rate in Ohio, Pennsylvania and surrounding states..  But the numbers of far-away players still always seemed high to me.  By the way, Wittenberg has 19 players from Florida on its roster this year, and they've had similar numbers the last 4 or 5 years.  Allegheny has also gone farther afield in recent years, not being interested or able (don't know which) in containing its recruiting base primarily to the WPIAL and other western Pennsylvania leagues. 
     What I don't know, of course, is what kinds of discussions there are between the football coaches (and ADs) and the folks in Admissions.  On the one hand, there is an understandable desire to spread the recruiting base of all students; one the other hand, there's the expense, financial and in terms of attrition, that can follow.  Out of necessity many schools have broadened there recruiting territories.  The added benefit of geographic diversity, and ethnic diversity in some cases, is highly desirable.  At places like Kenyon and Oberlin the student populations have always been geographically diverse because of their rightful claim to academic excellence.  They attract students nationwide without searching them out.  Places like Witt and Hiram have had to use another strategy, going hard after student-athletes and spreading their recruiting focus in the process.  The good news in a way is that those Florida and Texas athletes are often really good; the downside is that they are sometimes academically marginal.  This is to paint with a broad brush, but it seems to me this is the pattern.  I'm not insinuating that Hiram, Witt (and other NCAC schools) are academically weak, but they do not have the national reputation of Oberlin and Kenyon.
     To take the other side, Wabash's recruiting base has always been close to home, with the vast majority of students and student-athletes from Indiana.  They have a close relationship with high schools and an alumni base firmly committed to help  with recruiting  students with a strong academic record, many of whom are also pretty good athletes.  Sprinkled through the roster historically have been a few students from contiguous states and a few more from farther away.  Since joining the NCAC 20 years ago, a healthy number of Wabash's football players have come from Arizona and Texas.  This results from Wabash very selectively going after good student-athletes from these states.  In the last two years, I've  noticed almost no recruits from these two states; I don't know why--whether the College and the football staff has decided to do things differently or whether they are not finding the right students.   This year there is not a single freshman student from Arizona or Texas on the roster.  There is one student from Florida, and he is being productive as a WR.  I'll not go into detail other factors that help schools decide how far and wide to throw their net, including the expense of doing so year after year.  To me, it will be interesting to see whether the small number of far-away students who have sprinkled the Wabash roster and who have definitely enhanced Wabash competitiveness over the last two decades  has become a phenomenon of the past.
     Well, I've gotten a bit off track on the Hiram situation.  I hope this is an opportunity to think hard about the place of football on campus, most importantly beyond purely wins and losses, but an important tool in helping to solidify the student population.  A hundred or more students who play football, and who stick around to increase retention, can only benefit Hiram in terms of more wins and a better financial bottom line.
   
     
     
       
     

You raise excellent and fair points. I think we're fortunate in the NCAC that all of our respective member institutions are academically exceptional, and we're proud of that.

Nonetheless, Hiram, Wooster, Witt, Allegheny, OWU, etc. are significantly more expensive than other schools - we have a very EXPENSIVE conference lol.

I do know the administration would rather the new coach bring in 20 freshmen, selectively, and see 15 return as sophomores; rather than bringing in 60 freshmen, and seeing 20 return. Thereafter, admissions might be able to allocate aid moneys to the kid with a 3.5GPA but might not come to Hiram due to the cost. Retention and focus on academic sustainability will be part of the focus of the next coach, I can dang near guarantee it.

I think, in part, coaches have turned to Florida because they want to hit home runs. Rather than getting a possession wide receiver from an Akron school, they'd look to the undersized speedster from the banks of Okochobee. Nonetheless, despite the lack of success, the school actually does a good job supporting the football program. I've been involved in championship teams and complete duds, I can tell you that the ship can be righted at Hiram, just need the right fit at coach.

[Pat Coleman]

Does Hiram find that people who don't stay on the football team also leave the institution? I have been under the impression that students stay in the school in reasonable numbers even after they stop playing football.