FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Crawford]

USAFootball says a blocked extra point if touched by any player before the ball is dead, is a live ball.  Did the blocked ball hit anyone when it was on it's way to the end zone? 

[Whitecarrera]

Not trying to sound argumentative, but USAFootball is irrelevant here. NCAA rules apply.

[Li'l Giant]

My recollection of the ncaa rule is that a blocked PAT can be returned if the ball did not cross the line of scrimmage.

EDIT: I meant *only* if it did not cross. Obviously it did in this instance. Not sure why that counted.

[Whitecarrera]

Here's the rule:
Touching Ground On or Behind Goal Line
RULE 6, ARTICLE 9. If a scrimmage kick untouched by Team B beyond the neutral zone touches the ground on or behind Team B's goal line, the ball becomes dead and belongs to Team B. (Rule 8-4-2-b) (A.R. 6-3-9-I-II).

Also, because the kick was blocked at or near the line of scrimmage (the rule book defines this as within three yards of the LOS), then it is deemed to have been touched behind the neutral zone, and not beyond the zone.

[Crawford]

Whirecarrera, not wanting to argue myself, the USAFootball article I was referring to talks about this rule from an NFL, NCAA and high school perspective and discussed the differences.  In your comments above, what happens if the ball is touched?  I've not seen the footage since the live action, so not sure if the ball was touched or not.  How many yards back from the line of scrimmage is a point after attempt / field goal kicked, 5 yards?  If the block happened 5 yards from the line of scrimmage, how does that effect your comment in the 2nd paragraph ?

[Crawford]

Whitecarrera, just noticed you cited a rule about a "kick from scrimmage", is that the same thing as a Field Goal Attempt, and not a Point After Attempt?  If from scrimmage does not mean a point after attempt, what does the NCAA rule book say about PAT's?  Just asking.  Would be interesting to get a ruling from the NCAA or the board members of d3football. 

On a side note, for the first time in my life it was fun to watch Wabash punt.  Joey Anne was awesome, hope he gets recognized by d3football at a national level.

[Whitecarrera]

All good questions. A scrimmage kick can be a punt, field goal, or PAT attempt. Some sections of the rule are broken out to apply specifically to one or the other, but this part of the rule applies to all three. The ball was definitely blocked at the line of scrimmage, and this is deemed to be behind the neutral zone. Then the ball went into the end zone, where it should have immediately been blown a dead ball. Wabash tweeted a really good view of the whole play.

Hoffman knew the rule and pointed it out in the webcast. I'm surprised the Gheny coaches didn't throw a bigger fit, because it would have been correctable at that point.

Agree on Joey Annee. Fun to watch

[Crawford]

Thanks Whitecarrera !  Much appreciation for the explication.  It must be difficult for a referee, knowing all these little in's and out's of the rule book....but it is their job. 

[Whitecarrera]

Yeah, I'm usually pretty understanding with officials on judgment calls, but this was completely different.  Officials huddle to discuss all the time, and this was completely correctable. It was a huge momentum shift for Wabash (my Wabash, so that's okay), but it's pretty rare to see a collective brain fart like that from an entire crew.

[wally_wabash]

Whitecarrera, just noticed you cited a rule about a "kick from scrimmage", is that the same thing as a Field Goal Attempt, and not a Point After Attempt?  If from scrimmage does not mean a point after attempt, what does the NCAA rule book say about PAT's?  Just asking.  Would be interesting to get a ruling from the NCAA or the board members of d3football. 

On a side note, for the first time in my life it was fun to watch Wabash punt.  Joey Anne was awesome, hope he gets recognized by d3football at a national level.

Joey was our HM All-American punter in 2019 and our First Team Preseason All-American this year.

[Pat Coleman]

Whitecarrera, just noticed you cited a rule about a "kick from scrimmage", is that the same thing as a Field Goal Attempt, and not a Point After Attempt?  If from scrimmage does not mean a point after attempt, what does the NCAA rule book say about PAT's?  Just asking.  Would be interesting to get a ruling from the NCAA or the board members of d3football. 

On a side note, for the first time in my life it was fun to watch Wabash punt.  Joey Anne was awesome, hope he gets recognized by d3football at a national level.

Joey was our HM All-American punter in 2019 and our First Team Preseason All-American this year.

I was going to say this but WW beat me to it. He's definitely been recognized.

[Pat Coleman]

On the PAT -- once the ball is kicked and crosses the line of scrimmage, it is endemic on the offense/kicking team to down the ball and rule it dead. However, once the ball hits the ground in the end zone, it is supposed to be a dead ball.

Something for the NCAC assigner to review with this crew, apparently.

[Crawford]

Thanks Pat for that info about the PAT.   About Joey, I was meaning, that I hope he gets Special Teams of the week recognition. 

[HCAlum86]

I'd like to speak with the guy at the league office who started Hiram's conference schedule with Wabash, Wittenberg, and Depauw

[Whitecarrera]

"endemic" ??