FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Li'l Giant]

WAF - Wabash Always Fair-catches

+K for that one.

[Crawford]

Thanks Li'l Giant. You made me laugh when all I really want to do is cry.

[WABCOL86]

Kept track of this train wreck on the Wabash Athletics App.  What a depressing day for Wabash Football.  Simply underlines how the "mighty" have fallen.  I was worried with the Rose game to start the season and little since then has been reassuring.  I imagine the Football Alums that helped finance the rebuilt Little Giants Stadium are not very happy about this situation.  What happens if we end this season with 3 (or more) losses?

[DonnieMilan4DPU]

Where can I find access to the spreads for this upcoming weekend of NCAC play? Incredible curious to see if Denison or DePauw will be favored, and by how much? Thanks. Season is heating up! I believe DePauw wins the conference if they beat Denison this weekend, regardless of the bell game outcome?

[wabashcpa]

Where can I find access to the spreads for this upcoming weekend of NCAC play? Incredible curious to see if Denison or DePauw will be favored, and by how much? Thanks. Season is heating up! I believe DePauw wins the conference if they beat Denison this weekend, regardless of the bell game outcome?

You are correct, as everyone else would have 2 losses.  I guess Oberlin is still in the way, but a loss at home to Oberlin would be highly unlikely.  So yes, get past Denison and Oberlin and the AQ is yours.  Bell game would just be the cherry on top.

Pick em's are under the General Football tab, doesn't look like NCAC has had any activity since mid-September.  I would have to think DPU would have to be favored by at least a TD over Denison.

[wally_wabash]

In 2012, Wabash finished third in the conference despite beating OWU and Wittenberg who both went undefeated otherwise in the regular season. Losses to Allegheny and Oberlin nullified sweeping two very good teams (on the road no less).  Wabash could very well sweep Denison, Witt, and DePauw and finish out of the running again in 2021- it isn't enough to beat the good teams on the schedule.  You have to beat them all if you want to play past week 11. 

The scenario as I see it is that for Wabash to have a shot at the tournament, they obviously have to win out.  DePauw has to lose two of their final three (presumably to Denison and Wabash), but if Denison does their part and beats DePauw, then Denison is going to have to lose again.  Hiram isn't going to go do it, so it has to be OWU (possible).  However, if OWU beats Denison, OWU is going to finish 7-2 in conference play as well and you're going to wind up with Wabash/Denison/OWU/DePauw all tied at 7-2 and I'm not sure how to break that (I'll spend time figuring that out if need be...but it seems to me that h2h results among the tied teams eliminate Denison and DePauw, both 1-2 among the group, leaving OWU and  Wabash and OWU h2h over Wabash, so probably OWU?).  So that's the best case scenario for Wabash - a four way tie for first place.  Or a wildly unexpected result out of Kenyon/Oberlin/Hiram. 

Most likely, the NCAC tournament rep is coming out of the game in Greencastle on Saturday.  I think these teams are pretty evenly matched, and if I were setting a spread I'd probably do DPU -3.5. A full touchdown feels a shade high. 

[USee]

HansenRatings had DePauw -1.9 this week

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aHZjh26_l_8w1RKov5Gn2W3lY3Smrn5zul0ewGgCetQ/edit#gid=1463296079

[Crawford]

Unless Wabash changes their pass rush schemes, don't see them winning 3 more games.  Never would have thought Kenyon was a must win game, but if Wabash loses that one, they could easily be 5 -5 .  Wow.

[Whitecarrera]

In 2012, Wabash finished third in the conference despite beating OWU and Wittenberg who both went undefeated otherwise in the regular season. Losses to Allegheny and Oberlin nullified sweeping two very good teams (on the road no less).

Wait a minute ... are you saying that Wabash lost to Allegheny AND Oberlin in 2012 ??
I wasn't following the Little Giants much at that point, but I certainly hope they fired that coach!

[wally_wabash]

In 2012, Wabash finished third in the conference despite beating OWU and Wittenberg who both went undefeated otherwise in the regular season. Losses to Allegheny and Oberlin nullified sweeping two very good teams (on the road no less).

Wait a minute ... are you saying that Wabash lost to Allegheny AND Oberlin in 2012 ??
I wasn't following the Little Giants much at that point, but I certainly hope they fired that coach!

They didn't. Things worked out ok. 

Some more similarities there. 2012 was also a youngish team, wrought with the kinds of inconsistencies that young teams go through.  Lessons were learned and they ripped off one of the best three year stretches in program history. 

[wabashcpa]

In 2012, Wabash finished third in the conference despite beating OWU and Wittenberg who both went undefeated otherwise in the regular season. Losses to Allegheny and Oberlin nullified sweeping two very good teams (on the road no less).

Wait a minute ... are you saying that Wabash lost to Allegheny AND Oberlin in 2012 ??
I wasn't following the Little Giants much at that point, but I certainly hope they fired that coach!

They didn't. Things worked out ok. 

Some more similarities there. 2012 was also a youngish team, wrought with the kinds of inconsistencies that young teams go through.  Lessons were learned and they ripped off one of the best three year stretches in program history.

And there the similarities end.  Wabash had just pitched two shutouts against Wooster and OWU, had already defeated Wittenberg earlier in the season, and had the Bell game the following week (another shutout, for what it's worth).  No excuse losing to Oberlin, but that team was looking ahead and just didn't take care of business.  The better team did not win that game.  It did bite them in the ass and cost them a playoff berth.  Highest point total given up all season was 31 to Oberlin - an anomaly.

Fast forward - last four weeks we have given up 38, 20, 44, and 35, and have somehow managed to split because we can put points on the board.  We just can't stop anyone, and it is proving not to be an anomaly.  Is that on Morel or is that on Ramsey?  Where does the buck stop?  I would have zero problem with Morel as an OC, but we need somebody to bring the hard hat D back to Crawfordsville, because it sure as heck isn't there right now.  And without it, there will not be another 3 year run like you saw under Raeburn.

[wally_wabash]

In 2012, Wabash finished third in the conference despite beating OWU and Wittenberg who both went undefeated otherwise in the regular season. Losses to Allegheny and Oberlin nullified sweeping two very good teams (on the road no less).

Wait a minute ... are you saying that Wabash lost to Allegheny AND Oberlin in 2012 ??
I wasn't following the Little Giants much at that point, but I certainly hope they fired that coach!

They didn't. Things worked out ok. 

Some more similarities there. 2012 was also a youngish team, wrought with the kinds of inconsistencies that young teams go through.  Lessons were learned and they ripped off one of the best three year stretches in program history.

And there the similarities end.  Wabash had just pitched two shutouts against Wooster and OWU, had already defeated Wittenberg earlier in the season, and had the Bell game the following week (another shutout, for what it's worth).  No excuse losing to Oberlin, but that team was looking ahead and just didn't take care of business.  The better team did not win that game.  It did bite them in the ass and cost them a playoff berth.  Highest point total given up all season was 31 to Oberlin - an anomaly.

Fast forward - last four weeks we have given up 38, 20, 44, and 35, and have somehow managed to split because we can put points on the board.  We just can't stop anyone, and it is proving not to be an anomaly.  Is that on Morel or is that on Ramsey?  Where does the buck stop?  I would have zero problem with Morel as an OC, but we need somebody to bring the hard hat D back to Crawfordsville, because it sure as heck isn't there right now.  And without it, there will not be another 3 year run like you saw under Raeburn.

The defense is bad right now.  No hiding from that.  I do think folks on that side of the ball need to take the next three weeks personally. Wabash gives up the 7th most pass yards per game in the division which is not acceptable, obviously. 

[Li'l Giant]

In 2012, Wabash finished third in the conference despite beating OWU and Wittenberg who both went undefeated otherwise in the regular season. Losses to Allegheny and Oberlin nullified sweeping two very good teams (on the road no less).

Wait a minute ... are you saying that Wabash lost to Allegheny AND Oberlin in 2012 ??
I wasn't following the Little Giants much at that point, but I certainly hope they fired that coach!

They didn't. Things worked out ok. 

Some more similarities there. 2012 was also a youngish team, wrought with the kinds of inconsistencies that young teams go through.  Lessons were learned and they ripped off one of the best three year stretches in program history. 

That coach in 2012 had already had...checks notes...three trips to the playoffs, an undefeated season and trip to the regional finals the year before. He had some capital built up. In the last five years we've had one trip to the playoffs that ended in a bloodbath because with 3 losses we were getting fed to the eventual national champ in the first round. 2012 is not the same as 2021.

I get that there's no winning of hearts and minds in this discussion. The lines have been drawn from the beginning and haven't changed.

I'm going to keep rooting for the team no matter what. And like any message board disagreement it's pointless.

But I don't think it's pointless to talk about what we really want and expect from our football program. When we get to the point that we don't care about what is an obvious decline it bodes ill to me. That kind of apathy will only make things worse. 

[Crawford]

Well said li'l Giant.  I was born a Wally and will be one until the end.  Just hope those that have some influence on the direction of Bash Football, make some changes.   Also agree with WabashCPA that Morel seems like a very good OC. Not sure about the timing but it does seem like the decline in Wabash's D happened when Hammer left.

[DePauwalum05]

In 2012, Wabash finished third in the conference despite beating OWU and Wittenberg who both went undefeated otherwise in the regular season. Losses to Allegheny and Oberlin nullified sweeping two very good teams (on the road no less).  Wabash could very well sweep Denison, Witt, and DePauw and finish out of the running again in 2021- it isn't enough to beat the good teams on the schedule.  You have to beat them all if you want to play past week 11. 

The scenario as I see it is that for Wabash to have a shot at the tournament, they obviously have to win out.  DePauw has to lose two of their final three (presumably to Denison and Wabash), but if Denison does their part and beats DePauw, then Denison is going to have to lose again.  Hiram isn't going to go do it, so it has to be OWU (possible).  However, if OWU beats Denison, OWU is going to finish 7-2 in conference play as well and you're going to wind up with Wabash/Denison/OWU/DePauw all tied at 7-2 and I'm not sure how to break that (I'll spend time figuring that out if need be...but it seems to me that h2h results among the tied teams eliminate Denison and DePauw, both 1-2 among the group, leaving OWU and  Wabash and OWU h2h over Wabash, so probably OWU?).  So that's the best case scenario for Wabash - a four way tie for first place.  Or a wildly unexpected result out of Kenyon/Oberlin/Hiram. 

Most likely, the NCAC tournament rep is coming out of the game in Greencastle on Saturday.  I think these teams are pretty evenly matched, and if I were setting a spread I'd probably do DPU -3.5. A full touchdown feels a shade high.

Eager to see the DePauw - Denison matchup.  Agree that a touchdown favorite seems high.  Feels even to me.  All of DePauw's wins thus far were expected with the exception of Witt, which everyone agrees is down.  The same can be said for Denison.  Interesting match between DPU's rush defense and Denison's run game -- both top of the league. 

I expect 'bash to bounce back.  And they will be ready for the Bell, as always.  Should be a another great Bell game.