FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Crawford]

Smedindy, good to see you posting again,  Always appreciated your comments.  Wabash's O seems legit but the D is terrible, and that has little to do with the quality of the rest of the NCAC. Some of Hammer's D, with their pass rush intensity, I think cold have had great success this season.  I do hope all the NCAC teams are improving, but the NCAC over-all non-conference records were not great this year.  Wabash really must address the D coaching situation.

[wally_wabash]

The question is: are Witt and Wabash down, or HAS the NCAC caught up?

It's a good question, and my answer is that the top of the NCAC has regressed.  Since Wabash's 2015 quarterfinal run, the NCAC champion has these tournament results:

2019: North Central 51, Wabash 15
2018: Mount Union 60, Denison 0
2017: Frostburg State 35, Wittenberg 7
2016: Wittenberg 33, Thomas More 30 (4OT); UW-Whitewater 37, Wittenberg 9

Losing to the best teams is one thing, but being totally uncompetitive with them is another.  Also, it's indicative of conference strength that our champion is getting matched up regularly with those teams in the first round to begin with.  Beyond the tournament, I'm having a hard time finding the last time an NCAC team won a big game out of conference in the regular season.  I know the opportunities are limited, but what's the most impressive non-conference win in the last five seasons?  Denison beat a 6-4 ONU team in 2019. That's probably the one.

It's been a really long time since anybody in the conference has won a meaningful game against somebody not in the conference.  Multiple years of playoff wipeouts and faceplants in the non-conference season in those marquee games (see Denison and Witt this season) mean that the top of the league is light years away from producing teams that can win 1-2 playoff games. 

I think there are less truly bad teams in the NCAC right now than there have been, but there are also no really good (like, from a national perspective) teams in this conference at the moment. 

[MRMIKESMITH]

The question is: are Witt and Wabash down, or HAS the NCAC caught up?

It's a good question, and my answer is that the top of the NCAC has regressed.  Since Wabash's 2015 quarterfinal run, the NCAC champion has these tournament results:

2019: North Central 51, Wabash 15
2018: Mount Union 60, Denison 0
2017: Frostburg State 35, Wittenberg 7
2016: Wittenberg 33, Thomas More 30 (4OT); UW-Whitewater 37, Wittenberg 9

Losing to the best teams is one thing, but being totally uncompetitive with them is another.  Also, it's indicative of conference strength that our champion is getting matched up regularly with those teams in the first round to begin with.  Beyond the tournament, I'm having a hard time finding the last time an NCAC team won a big game out of conference in the regular season.  I know the opportunities are limited, but what's the most impressive non-conference win in the last five seasons?  Denison beat a 6-4 ONU team in 2019. That's probably the one.

It's been a really long time since anybody in the conference has won a meaningful game against somebody not in the conference.  Multiple years of playoff wipeouts and faceplants in the non-conference season in those marquee games (see Denison and Witt this season) mean that the top of the league is light years away from producing teams that can win 1-2 playoff games. 

I think there are less truly bad teams in the NCAC right now than there have been, but there are also no really good (like, from a national perspective) teams in this conference at the moment.

Wally do you think the NCAC should do a NCAC vs. OAC challenge similar to WIAC/CCIW bowl challenge? Also, how much of this is due to a lot of new DII/FCS schools now offering scholarships in that area of the country that 10 to 15 years ago, they weren't? 

[wally_wabash]

Wally do you think the NCAC should do a NCAC vs. OAC challenge similar to WIAC/CCIW bowl challenge? Also, how much of this is due to a lot of new DII/FCS schools now offering scholarships in that area of the country that 10 to 15 years ago, they weren't?

It takes two to tango, right?  Would the OAC want to do something like this with the NCAC right now?  From a competition POV, this would have been more attractive a handful of years ago.  A postseason bowl game like what you're seeing from the CCIW/WIAC and some other places mostly requires a desire by a couple of conferences to participate, but also somebody to fund the thing.  Travel, lodging, food, stadium rental if you're doing this at some neutral location (or a willingness by a school's athletics department to host an additional event- that stuff doesn't just happen), player experience stuff, etc. 

My thinking on the non-playoff bowl games has softened a bit.  I used to think out loud what the point of the ECAC bowls or the thing the MAC and CC do is, but now I generally think they're fine.  One more opportunity to play, one more week of practice, and all of that.  If there are teams that want to play these exhibitions and somebody willing to fund it, tee it up. 

[Crawford]

I spent a year at Saint John's in Collegeville, MN.  Was there for the last Johnnie / Tommie Game played at SJU.  Those MIAC teams looked light years bigger / faster / more intense than anything I've seen in the NCAC the last decade.

[DePauwalum05]

It's fair to say Witt and 'bash have dropped, but I would suggest DePauw, OWU, and Wooster have risen up a bit.  Denison was already a league champ and contender recently so I wouldn't say they've risen or fallen, unless we're going back a bit further in the comparison. But I'm no expert and defer to Wally and others on that question.

Coming back to the Bell Game, this is an interesting matchup.  Forgive me for not posting this in the Monon Bell thread, but the group here seems more sensible.  No question Wabash is talented, but simply underperformed and lost several close games as noted by their followers here.  Even the Witt game was much closer than it appears if you look at the box score and Thompson throwing at least 1 if not 2 picks in the end zone. 

I like DePauw's defense giving up 11.9 per game in the league, turnover margin of 25/6 gained vs. lost, a balanced offense, and both passing efficiency and big play potential at 10.3 yards per pass attempt coming into the Bell game.  I don't care so much for DPU suddenly being ranked and for Oberlin making them feel like Alabama.  'Bash has a talented young QB and will be motivated to salvage their season with one win on the second Saturday in November.  As stated earlier, I expect another great game.

Elsewhere in the NCAC, some really good matchups all over the league.  Probably the most evenly matched set of games this season.  Good luck to all -

[Dr. Acula]

I'm an OAC guy so I realize my opinion holds less weight.  But for the Bash guys, to me what I think of when I think of Wabash is the year they lost 20-8? in Alliance when a green Kevin Burke had to play QB after injury.  Wabash had a legit D that you knew wasn't giving up much if anything.  That physical, tough D is what I still think of when I hear Wabash.  I understand it's not the case now but it was not long ago and can be again.  Those ER defenses were stout even against Mount and UWW.  The potential is there.

[Li'l Giant]

I'm an OAC guy so I realize my opinion holds less weight.  But for the Bash guys, to me what I think of when I think of Wabash is the year they lost 20-8? in Alliance when a green Kevin Burke had to play QB after injury.  Wabash had a legit D that you knew wasn't giving up much if anything.  That physical, tough D is what I still think of when I hear Wabash.  I understand it's not the case now but it was not long ago and can be again.  Those ER defenses were stout even against Mount and UWW.  The potential is there.

That 2011 Wabash team gave up only 168 points in 13 games.

The 2015 team gave up 155 in 13 games, 3 of which were shutouts. And 38 of those points were to St. Thomas in the quarters.

This year's defense has given up 271 points. With one game to go.

I would love to see that kind of defense again.

[WABCOL86]

Li'l Giant, I agree 100%.  The vision is lacking on the defensive coaching side of the ball for sure.  I kind of dread the Bell Game this year...

[1837Tigers]

I made 'em for this time of year -- I'm gone, but they remain!  'Monon Memories' from 1890-2019, in order, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x-Hia-fqx4&list=PLwnGvLLgIMA74Q_LhRzSH8EllfFAkm1nj

[Crawford]

The potential is there.

Sounds good, but I've seen nothing from the current D coaches at Wabash to merit that statement.  The potential is there for everybody.

Remember those t-shirts 47 - 0 ?  Just hope Depauw doesn't return the favor.

[HCAlum86]

The potential is there.

Sounds good, but I've seen nothing from the current D coaches at Wabash to merit that statement.  The potential is there for everybody.

Remember those t-shirts 47 - 0 ?  Just hope Depauw doesn't return the favor.

So I actually see things a little differently. I think as the conference gets better at the middle and bottom, it will cause a temporary reset, and then a resurgence of a couple NCAC juggernauts.

Imo, Wabash takes football more seriously than every other NCAC school, and that gives them an automatic advantage. But I think schools like Depauw, Wooster, Denison, and Witt with great facilities will make a push into that elite space.

I think there's room for 2-3 REALLY good programs in the NCAC (Meaning teams with the potential to win playoff games), but I think you're all right at the moment - the top of our conference isn't as good as the OAC, PAC, etc. However, the bottom is better - Hiram would've and did lose to bottom tier PAC schools in the past, and beat Bethany pretty handily this year.

[wabashcpa]

Still 1st quarter.

DePauw 21
Wabash 0

Umm, yeah.

[wabashcpa]

Halftime

DePauw 21
Wabash 14

Credit to the players for digging in and showing some pride.  DePauw with a bad red zone pick to keep the game manageable for Wabash.

See what the second half holds in store.

[wabashcpa]

End of 3rd quarter

Wabash 28
DePauw 28

DePauw falling apart at the seams a bit, getting away from what got them the lead.  2 straight 3 and outs.  Wabash offense doing their thing, defense stepping up.