FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[Li'l Giant]

Is the NCAC that weak this year?  This was CMU's most points in a game all year.

This is good contrary evidence for the folks who have explained Wabash's records the last few years as "the rest of the league has gotten closer". I've been guilty of stating that, wishfully, myself. The reality is the entire league has regressed. The last NCAC team to win a playoff game was Witt in 2016. The last NCAC team to win 2 playoffs games was Wabash in 2015. The PAC is a higher ranked conference, sure. But that much better than our champ? Shouldn't be but yeah, they apparently are.

And if Wabash's fans needed any more proof, we got smoked by a team that got smoked in the first round of the playoffs. We're clearly more than "a better defense" away from being the kind of team we were in 2008-2015.

This has been a long slide. It's not going to be a quick fix. One coordinator change was never fixing this.

[Whitecarrera]

FWIW - the biggest surprise I saw today was Aurora, whose best opponent may have been 6-4 Hope (who they lost to), beating Whitewater.
Somewhere in the back of my head I can hear Golfer and WABCOL86 screaming, "Three losses this year? Fire Kevin Bullis!" 

Also - I'm going on record, predicting Ithaca makes some big waves!

(Edited to correct spelling)

[smedindy]

Well, the rest of the league can be getting better and the overall quality has slipped because of the decline of the top. They're not mutually exclusive.

[Crawford]

This past summer I was on Wabash's campus and stopped to say hello to the football staff.  Their offices are now in the old Army building and it was sad to walk up the decrepit stairwell and see the ugly waiting room outside the offices.  My thought was, "if I were a prospective student athlete, I don't think I'd be too impressed with this".   Sad to read that prospective students are questioning their college choices due to the current coaching staff. 

[Whitecarrera]

Crawford - every kid weighs his college choice on lots of stuff, and coaching staff is definitely on that list, along with about 20 other things (faculty, alumni, living units, personal friendships, facilities, immediate v deferred playing opportunity, and on and on and on).  Regardless of what tips the scale, we all know that Wabash is not for everyone, and that's okay! 

The all-male thing probably causes 1/3 of kids to never consider Wabash, and that's okay too. 

Since 1975 Wabash has had one losing season, and Witt is the same.  I can find only three schools that have had zero in that time: St. Johns, Linfield, Central of Iowa (there may be more, it was a quick search).  Schools who can't say either of those things: DePauw (of course), Ithaca, Mount Union, Whitewater, Augustana, Williams, Wartburg, Trinity.....  I think Wabash is in pretty good company.

Morel has been 46-15, and Coach of the Year twice in six seasons.  Last year we beat two playoff teams, and Golfer's preference to keep the DC instead of Morel is ridiculous.  Of course, all are welcome to their opinions, and that's mine.

(I might change my signature line -- "Remember that 2-3 loudmouths on a public board, are usually just that.") 

[WABCOL86]

Bullis I would be a lot more willing to cut some slack, Carrera.  His lone stop as a HC is Whitewater.  He's 78-13 with 2 - 3 loss seasons in 7 years of games, but also NCAA Playoffs in 6 of those seasons in a much tougher conference.  Morel is 87-74 in 2 HC stops.  I might give him credit as an offensive coordinator, but his HC skills are not up to the standards that Wabash has come to expect.  His special teams are abysmal and I am still very worried about the defense.  He may be a very nice guy, and that's great, but the output on the field is lacking.  Eventually, it will impact recruiting (as it seemingly already has to some extent) and the 6-4 will become common. 

As far as the 2-3 loudmouths on the boards, I know I am not alone in feeling this way.  A number of Alums I have spoken with are not happy with the state of affairs, and losing badly to Depauw in a crucial game doesn't help that at all.  You pointing out that Wabash only having one losing season since 1975 seems to back up my point about expectations much more so than yours.  We brag about our wins in our PR materials.  Also, some of these "board loudmouths" you so deride are lettermen who are well aware of the history of our program and what that entails.

[CollegeGolf18]

Crawford - every kid weighs his college choice on lots of stuff, and coaching staff is definitely on that list, along with about 20 other things (faculty, alumni, living units, personal friendships, facilities, immediate v deferred playing opportunity, and on and on and on).  Regardless of what tips the scale, we all know that Wabash is not for everyone, and that's okay! 

The all-male thing probably causes 1/3 of kids to never consider Wabash, and that's okay too. 

Since 1975 Wabash has had one losing season, and Witt is the same.  I can find only three schools that have had zero in that time: St. Johns, Linfield, Central of Iowa (there may be more, it was a quick search).  Schools who can't say either of those things: DePauw (of course), Ithaca, Mount Union, Whitewater, Augustana, Williams, Wartburg, Trinity.....  I think Wabash is in pretty good company.

Morel has been 46-15, and Coach of the Year twice in six seasons.  Last year we beat two playoff teams, and Golfer's preference to keep the DC instead of Morel is ridiculous.  Of course, all are welcome to their opinions, and that's mine.

(I might change my signature line -- "Remember that 2-3 loudmouths on a public board, are usually just that.")

Morel has gone 46-15 in one of the worst stretches in NCAC football. Do you think Raeburn would have gone 46-15 with the best QB that Wabash has ever had? Have you noticed the difference between say 2010-2015 and 2017-2022?

Have you looked at Morel's coaching history? Where, other than Wabash, where he inherited a great group (and went 8-2 after a 12-1 season) has he had success?

I'll give you the two NCAC coach of the year awards, but let's not mistake that one of those was in a 7-4 season where he lost to Stevens-Point, lost to WOOSTER, lost the Bell, and then got destroyed in the playoffs + finished with the 4th best winning percentage in the conference and Denison went 8-2 that season.

Maybe Morel is a good coach, but I'm not about to settle for 7-8 win seasons. In Morel's previous HC stop he fell off a cliff in Year 5 of his tenure and he would have been here as well if the COVID year would not happened. What would the team look like next year without all of those starters that decided to sit for a season? Liam would be gone and you think we would win 7 or 8 games? No way.

I want Ridings to stay because in football it starts at the top. Ridings has a great pedigree and has proven results. The defense improved over the course of the season - I guess you're probably not aware of some of the defensive players he has brought in for the 2023 class? He's a great recruiter too.

But yeah, let's put the blame on the defense when the head coach (who also calls plays FYI) puts up 14 points against DePauw. Yeah, the defense gave up 49 points but two were pick 6's and you're not going to win much when your offense fumbles four times, you put up a 0 spot in the first half, and you turn it over on downs.

I guess in your opinion we should have a new defensive coordinator each year? That really breeds continuity and it's not Ridings fault that the defense was bad early in the season. The players on the defensive side are not up to the standard of Wabash College and that starts at, you guessed it, the head coach.

[smedindy]

The coach can't prevent fumbles, though. That's on the players. If they don't execute we can't win.

LaVerne de-emphasized athletics when he was there. That matters a lot in that compettive environment.

As far as 7 or 8 win seasons, let's breathe a bit. There are just a few teams what would revolt over a 7 or 8 win season. I don't know what the buzz is at Witt, but they've fallen faster than we have in football. I mean, clunked big time.

Bethel was a five win team in 2017. St. John's went 5-5 in 2012. Whitewater went 7-3 in 2012. Linfield was 6-3 for a couple years and won just seven in 2018. North Central was 7-3 in 2015.

Johns Hopkins won just 8 in 2019. Hardin Simmons spent four years as a six win team.

Delaware Valley's kind of having the same run now that we had back a decade ago. But they were 5-5 in 2007 and 7-4 in 2013.

What I'm saying is that unless you're Mt. Union or UMHB, you're going to have years where you win 7 or 8, maybe even in a row.

[Whitecarrera]

Smed, old friend, you and I seem to agree more and more these days, but I'm not sure if that's good or bad - lol.

86 - here's a trivia question for you.  If you think back to the TV show M*A*S*H, with Colonel Sherman Potter as one of the lead characters, do you remember exactly where you were the night the final episode of M*A*S*H aired?

[Li'l Giant]

The coach can't prevent fumbles, though. That's on the players. If they don't execute we can't win.

So coaching doesn't matter? We're not talking about one fluke loss here.

And we're not talking about a first year coach. This was his 6th season.

What I'm saying is that unless you're Mt. Union or UMHB, you're going to have years where you win 7 or 8, maybe even in a row.

I'll point out again that we went from the 2005 season to the 2018 without having more than 2 losses in a season. We are capable of it. And like has been said already, if you can't do better than 7-3 without the Bell in a regressed NCAC, with a 2 time NCAC Offensive Player of the Year at QB then what happens when that QB graduates?

Truck's heading toward the ditch. Y'all want to just let it crash. 


Ultimately, it doesn't matter because as Dean B pointed out, the admin isn't making any changes. I guess I should quit wasting my keystrokes. . .

[Whitecarrera]

One of my points would be that you shouldn't praise a player for being outstanding, and then curse the coach when that player has a tough game. 

Yes, coaching is hugely important, as is recruiting, as is the collective abilities of the players.  Make no mistake about it, this may be the best QB we've ever had, but he's not so perfect that fumbles and interceptions are suddenly the someone else's fault.  We put our best against their best, and that was the result this year -- I can live with that. 

[Dr. Acula]

This discussion is interesting.  It got me curious about the NCAC top rung.  I went back and looked at the final top 25 poll all the way back to 2005.  Unless I missed it only two teams have ended up in the top 25 at the end of the season.  Wabash (9 times) and Witt (7).  In 2006 no NCAC team was in the final top 25.  The only other time in that span that has occurred was 2019, 2021 and presumably 2022 now.  2020 there was no poll.   

 

[WABCOL86]

Carrera, most likely the same place you were, Martindale Hall...pretty obvious you put 2 and 2 to figure out who I am.  Li'l Giant, you are likely right, so I plan to save some keystrokes as well.  The wife and I haven't been to the new football digs in good old C'ville, too much real life getting in the way.  May be putting that off indefinitely.

[Whitecarrera]

I don't think that's right.  I'm gonna say Baxter 101.

[smedindy]

The coach can't prevent fumbles, though. That's on the players. If they don't execute we can't win.

So coaching doesn't matter? We're not talking about one fluke loss here.

And we're not talking about a first year coach. This was his 6th season.

What I'm saying is that unless you're Mt. Union or UMHB, you're going to have years where you win 7 or 8, maybe even in a row.

I'll point out again that we went from the 2005 season to the 2018 without having more than 2 losses in a season. We are capable of it. And like has been said already, if you can't do better than 7-3 without the Bell in a regressed NCAC, with a 2 time NCAC Offensive Player of the Year at QB then what happens when that QB graduates?

Truck's heading toward the ditch. Y'all want to just let it crash. 


Ultimately, it doesn't matter because as Dean B pointed out, the admin isn't making any changes. I guess I should quit wasting my keystrokes. . .

The point was blaming coaching for the players issues in that particular comment, not that coaching matters. Sometimes the players make mistakes. Even on Mt. Union and UMHB.

Witt and Wabash have stepped back a bit and the rest have stepped up. There used to be a chasm, and now it's a little ravine. Remember how bad Denison used to be? OWU, Wooster, and DPU were the definition of meh for a long time.

And I'll point out that we have had a long streak of success, but so have many schools who then took a dip back. Now if we have seasons of 6-4 and 7-3 back to back, maybe panic? Wait, Creighton did that...