FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[sigma one]

Great post TigerKing.  Dietz has really improved the DePauw team--and it looks like the Tigers will be at the top of the NCAC for years to come.  Let's put to bed the idea that with his over .700 winning %age that Morel's job is in any kind of jeopardy.  The Wabash fans expectations have been high, fueled by the success of two exceptional coaches before him.  But, in truth, +.700 is really good, if not great.  Taking into account the student-athletes Wabash can recruit, the results have been more than satisfactory.  I certainly look back, like so many loyal Wabash fans, to the highly successful past, which gave us such lofty expectations.  From what I know (others know this as well) the combination of being all male and recent decisions to try to upgrade the academic profile of the student body, with no wiggle room for athletics, has put a damper on recruiting.  Being all male in itself surely reduces the recruiting pool of men substantially, particularly in an age when so few schools remain all male. 
(As to any argument that St John's continues to produce football teams of championship quality year in a year out, the comparison is apples and oranges.  The Johnnies are all men, but, as I understand it, they share at least some enrollment in classes with a nearby women's college.  Please correct me if I am mistaken.) And their academic profile does not equal Wabash's.  No disrespect; they are just different institutions, with different missions.
    Congratulations to DePauw on a gutsy win.  So close, but yet so far for the LGs.  Good effort from both teams.  A strong Alma team is next; I wish the Tigers well as they travel to Michigan.  Hope the weather is good enough for a great game.     

     

[sigma one]

WAF posted while I was composing my previous words.  I could do an in depth of Knott/Thompson, the two best Wabash QBs in this century based on their 4-year performances.  Both started every game since they first walked on campus as Freshmen.  I disgree, however, that Thompson threw too many INTs in crucial sports.  If we care to nitpick, we could point out for both Jake and Liam several occasions when they threw a crucial interception.  This is true for even the best QBs over a long career.  With 103 TD passes and 30 INTs, Liam's numbers are very impressive.  Knot threw 116 TDs and 49 INTs.  Knott threw 374 more passes over four years, and three X threw more than 400 in a season.  The most passes Thompson threw in a season: 349.  There are, of course, a lot of statistical comparisons.  Here are a few of them:
       CAREER--
                   Passing Efficiency:  K, 132; T, 164
                   Completion %:  K, 55.5; T, 65.3
                   Total yards rushing and passing:  K, 12,054; T, 12,900.
                   Rushing TDs: K, 14; T, 31
                   Passing Yds:  K, 11,213; T, 11,152
I cherry-picked, yes, because there are so many comparisons that could be made made:  total offense per game; total rushing yards, TDs responsible for, Total Offense per play, on and on.  Thompson leads in almost all  those categories.
Jake's 4-Year records:  5-5, 6-4, 8-2, 12-1 (a very special year with the team advancing the quarter finals).  Totals:  31-12.
Liam;s 4-Year records: 7-4, 7-3, 7-3, 7-3.  Totals:  28-13.  Knott's winning %age is obviously higher. 
     I saw a lot of both QBs (many of us did).  And all of us have a favorite.  I would rate them 1 and 1A, take your pick with the one you like better.  Liam outranks Jake in most significant offensive categories.  Jake has a slight advantage in wins.  Liam was the better runner, a true dual threat.  Jake was a savvy runner, as well. but not the threat on the ground that Liam was.
     Generally speaking, the LGs defenses were much better during Knott's time.
     Both were "generational." 
           
 

[TigerKing]

Great post TigerKing.  Dietz has really improved the DePauw team--and it looks like the Tigers will be at the top of the NCAC for years to come.  Let's put to bed the idea that with his over .700 winning %age that Morel's job is in any kind of jeopardy.  The Wabash fans expectations have been high, fueled by the success of two exceptional coaches before him.  But, in truth, +.700 is really good, if not great.  Taking into account the student-athletes Wabash can recruit, the results have been more than satisfactory.  I certainly look back, like so many loyal Wabash fans, to the highly successful past, which gave us such lofty expectations.  From what I know (others know this as well) the combination of being all male and recent decisions to try to upgrade the academic profile of the student body, with no wiggle room for athletics, has put a damper on recruiting.  Being all male in itself surely reduces the recruiting pool of men substantially, particularly in an age when so few schools remain all male. 
(As to any argument that St John's continues to produce football teams of championship quality year in a year out, the comparison is apples and oranges.  The Johnnies are all men, but, as I understand it, they share at least some enrollment in classes with a nearby women's college.  Please correct me if I am mistaken.) And their academic profile does not equal Wabash's.)
    Congratulations to DePauw on a gutsy win.  So close, but yet so far for the LGs.  Good effort from both teams.  A strong Alma team is next; I wish the Tigers well as they travel to Michigan.  Hope the weather is good enough for a great game.     

   

I played at Hanover (during some lean years).  Talking to Panther coaches over the years, the staffs that have been able to recruit well would point to being close to everywhere (Indy/Cincy/Louisville) as a major advantage.  During bad years, coaches complain that the campus is in the middle of nowhere.  Hanover, IN hasn't moved, but the thing that makes it unique can be a strength or weakness.  I think the same is true of Wabash.  During those great years in the early 2010s, DPU struggled to recruit against the "brotherhood," and that "football is really important here" culture.  While I know a lot of high school kids rule Wabash out before they ever visit, the all-male thing is a unique feature that can be an asset or a liability. 

In terms of raising the academic profile, that is a killer to a football program if the admissions people aren't willing to play ball with the coaching staff.  Hard to know if that's happening in Crawfordsville or not.

[sigma one]

I can say with confidence that there is not a lot of ball being played.

[Li'l Giant]

TigerKing:

I wanted to post yesterday but I also wanted to think this out. I appreciate your questions greatly. It's been a minute since we've had an engaged and thoughtful DPU poster on the board and I'm grateful for your questions.

Both WAF and sigmaone have really good responses but I'll take a stab.

1. Wabash's SID spun the LG's success in the Bell game as winning 10 of the last 13 in the pre-game notes.  I'd do the same if I was him.  Next year, they'll be able to say they've won 10 of the last 14, but DePauw will be able to boast 3 of the last 4.  I certainly don't predict DPU going on a 7 year swing to match Bash from 09-15, but do the last two games signal the start of a new Tiger-dominated era?  DPU seems to have all the momentum with a young coaching staff and lots of talent coming back, but time will tell.

The series changed after 2015. You included that one in your post and looking at the last 8 being even, but let's be honest, that was a different era. DPU came into the 2016 game and turned the series around. It was a great classic back and forth contest and the team with the ball last did what it took to win. And that's what the series has been with the exception of last year's shellacking. But since 2015 it's been 4-3 DePauw. Yes, losing is part of a good close rivalry. But the trend is what worries me (as a Wabash fan). From 2001 to 2015 DPU took the Bell home 3 times. Since 2016 it's been 4. Quite the turnaround. Y'all are trending up and we need to figure out how to match that trend or else we might end up on the wrong end of a long streak like we did in 1996-2000.

2. What is the legacy of Liam Thompson?  He's one of the best D3 QBs I've had a chance to watch, but is 0-1 in the playoffs with one 3-way-tie conference championship his freshman year.  He is also 1-3 in Bell games.  He finishes high in the Wabash record book in several categories, but low in terms of Wabash winning standards.

I'd say he's the unfortunate victim of the trend. There have been other QBs from both schools who have been in that position.

Sigmaone posted some comparison stats to Jake Knott and I think there's more to it than the numbers. Knott was a great QB and it was awesome to see him play for 4 years. Liam had a lot more excitement though, in my opinion.

Just for sake of making stylistic comparisons it's like the difference between Peyton Manning (Knott) and Pat Mahomes (Liam). It's been 2 decades but when I think of Jake Knott I remember a machine. Making great plays and methodically executing the game plan to perfection. Surgical and powerful passes that were always on target. There was an inevitability to him that was like the Terminator.

Liam feels more like Mahomes to me. He was must see TV because you didn't know what crazy play he was going to make. Like, did anyone catch that wild sidearm pass he threw Saturday? Liam has great numbers to be sure, I just think the pizzazz factor adds to his legacy.

Ultimately I think sigmaone is correct, they're 1 and 1a. My vote would be Knott 1 and Liam 1a but that's just one idiot's opinion. I'm definitely going to miss Liam because these last 4 years have been fun to watch as a fan.

3. Speaking of Wabash standards, what to do with Don Morel?  His record of 53-19 gives him a winning percentage of 0.736,  lower than ER's 0.857, and Creighton's 0.854, but is still better than both Carlson and Navarro.  Morel can claim 2 conference championships, compared to Raeburn's 3.  I understand that the bar was raised in the 2010s, but can you really justify getting rid of a coach who's never won less than 7 in a year with 2 conference championships?  I'm a Coach Morel fan - he seems to be an outstanding person who his players genuinely respect, so I hope he gets a chance to continue his legacy at WC.

There's nothing to do. We're 7 seasons in and it's obvious this is who the College wants to lead the team. My feelings are well known on the board. 3-4 in Bell Games, no outright NCAC titles, and a single one and done trip to the playoffs.

Wabash went from 2005 to 2018 without a 3 loss season and now we've had 4 straight. Four straight with a QB who could be argued is the best in Wabash history.

The College has made clear its intentions with regard to football. They were happy to accept the large donations to build a beautiful new football stadium but not have the admissions office "play ball" (as sigmaone pointed out) or put a coach in charge to take the team to the next level.

What happens next year and beyond? Your guess is as good as mine but if we can't do better than 7-3 with the best QB in a generation, then Wabash's streak of winning seasons may be in trouble.

One last thing: when your rival wants your coach to stay forever, that's never a good thing.

4. On the flip side, how about Brett Dietz?  His 0.800 winning percentage is the best in DePauw history, and even though he's only 4ish seasons in, the Tigers show no signs of slowing down.  You have to wonder at this pace whether the Tigers are able to replace Witt/Wabash as a perennial NCAC rep in the playoffs.  DPU has a long way to go to start making consistent noise in the playoffs, but Dietz and co. are off to a great start.

See my last point for No. 3. I hope some FCS team snaps him up with a quickness. Because if he sticks around in Greencastle long enough we're going to see a reversal of the overall series record.

Thanks for engaging and good luck against Alma this weekend.

[Whitecarrera]

Li'l Giant - (I think I know what your response will be, because I don't see you as one to back down), but would it be crazy to think that your comments would be different if the FG had not been blocked?

The difference between a devastating loss and knocking off undefeated DePauw, winning the conference and a playoff berth came down to a play where #2 wasn't even on the field. 

[Li'l Giant]

Li'l Giant - (I think I know what your response will be, because I don't see you as one to back down), but would it be crazy to think that your comments would be different if the FG had not been blocked?

The difference between a devastating loss and knocking off undefeated DePauw, winning the conference and a playoff berth came down to a play where #2 wasn't even on the field.

Of course it's not crazy to think that a different outcome would lead to a different analysis. Yes, if we had won a game we lost, I would have a different opinion.

But the plays that LT isn't on the field count, too. During the last few years our team has had a big problem closing out games. We lost to Denison this year with 2:45 to play. Last year Denison scored with 2:08 to play, then we took the lead back, and gave it up to them AGAIN with 0:06 on the clock. 2021 against Wooster. 2021 in OT against OWU. 2019 against UWSP we lost with 1:23 to play. Yes, if we had won those games, I would have a different opinion.

If you want to do hypotheticals, they cut both ways. What if the the 2 pointer to win in the 2017 Bell Game was called short (as DPU fans believe it should have been)?  We could be 2-5 in the last 7 instead of 3-4. What if we didn't come back from 21-0? We could be 1-6.

My opinion is based on what actually happened. I don't think hypotheticals make a strong argument in the face of contrary evidence.

We went 28-13 and 0-1 in the playoffs with our best QB, possibly ever.

To paraphrase Walter Cronkite, to think we are going to get any better graduating our best QB in the last 20 years is to believe, in the face of the evidence, the optimists who have been wrong in the past.

[wabashcpa]

Thompson's legacy is simple - incredible talent wasted.

Morel's record is a bit of fools gold in my opinion, simply because the bottom third of the conference is awful, the middle third is average and the top third is competitive, but not fantastic.  A winning record in the NCAC is nothing to brag about, and should be the absolute bare minimum expectation.

Disappointed to hear about the recruiting being narrowed down, but not for the reasons one may think.  I know several very successful Wabash alums who easily could have been victims of a "raised" academic profile.  Be careful what you wish for.

[wabashcpa]

And if Knott and Thompson are 1 and 1A, then Hudson and Harbaugh are 1B and 1C.  We have had a great run behind center going back 20 or so years.

[VoodooDoc]

I agree with Wabashcpa.  I have had an opportunity to watch all 4.  Liam didn't have the hard hat defense that the others had.  Jake had one or both of the Hammers on the d-line all four years. Jake's sophomore year he had both, and they combined for 20 quarterbacks that year.  In the playoffs in 2002, Blair Hammer caused a strip sack of the Witt QB and recovered the fumble. Jake then threw a TD on the next play. After the kickoff, Blair Hammer was in the Witt QB's face again and took the ball away, and this ran it in for a TD. 14 points in less than 30 seconds.  Jake could make the big plays because he had knew he had great receivers, a fine running back in Chris Morris, and had a defense he could rely on. 

Just think of what Liam would have done with a great defense to close out those close games.  The game at Dennison this year come to mind. 

[CollegeGolf18]

In the Don Morel era:

DePauw - 3-4

Wittenberg, Ohio Wesleyan, Wooster, Denison - 21-11
Hiram, Allegheny, Kenyon, Oberlin - 25-0

Not pretty.

Wabash is now a mid-pack NCAC team rather than one at the top with Liam gone I fear.

[Li'l Giant]

And if Knott and Thompson are 1 and 1A, then Hudson and Harbaugh are 1B and 1C.  We have had a great run behind center going back 20 or so years.

Agree with this. We've been really #blessed with a lot of excellent quarterbacks.

Just think of what Liam would have done with a great defense to close out those close games.  The game at Dennison this year come to mind. 

That's the gist of my issue with "closing out games" that I posted about earlier. It's a glaring deficiency in this last few seasons.

[wally_wabash]

I agree with Wabashcpa.  I have had an opportunity to watch all 4.  Liam didn't have the hard hat defense that the others had.  Jake had one or both of the Hammers on the d-line all four years. Jake's sophomore year he had both, and they combined for 20 quarterbacks that year.  In the playoffs in 2002, Blair Hammer caused a strip sack of the Witt QB and recovered the fumble. Jake then threw a TD on the next play. After the kickoff, Blair Hammer was in the Witt QB's face again and took the ball away, and this ran it in for a TD. 14 points in less than 30 seconds. Jake could make the big plays because he had knew he had great receivers, a fine running back in Chris Morris, and had a defense he could rely on. 

Just think of what Liam would have done with a great defense to close out those close games.  The game at Dennison this year come to mind.

One of the gnarliest sequences of individual defense imaginable.  Blair Hammer also sacked and forced another fumble on Witt's last gasp drive a few minutes later.  Maybe the best individual 5:30 of defense you'll ever see. 

[PJSmith08]

Letter sent to Wabash President earlier this week:

"Dear President Feller,
I hope this letter finds you well, happy, healthy and blessed. I write as a loyal alumnus of Wabash College and the Little Giants football program. While I am sure that many people who watched the Monon Bell Game this year found it to be thrilling, one cannot help but acknowledge the disappointment, heartache, and agony of losing the Bell and the North Coast Athletic Conference for the second year in a row and for the third time in the past four years. I fell in love with Wabash football as a small child. My father was an alumnus of the class of 1974 and we would go to the games every year. The last time a senior class only won a single Monon Bell game in their 4 years at Wabash was the class of 1999, who won the Bell as freshman in 1995, surviving 7-2 over DePauw in the snow bowl of Blackstock Stadium. The classes of 2000 and 2001 each went all four of their years without ever winning the Bell. The class of 2001 came close in November of 2000, but lost their 8-point lead in the 4th quarter and eventually lost by 10 to DePauw in that game, the last of head coach Greg Carlson's Wabash career. Then, we hired a new coach, Chris Creighton, who in 7 years won 5 Bells, 4 NCAC championships, and 3 playoff appearances. In my time as a student there, he won the NCAC in 2005, 2006, and 2007. He lost his final Bell game on a last-second field goal by DePauw in 2007. We then hired Erik Raeburn, who in 8 years, won 3 NCAC titles and 5 playoff appearances. His only loss to DePauw was his first year. He quickly learned that this would not be acceptable a went on to win 7 straight Monon Bells, each in dominating fashion, never beating DePauw by any margin less than 3 possessions, and often it was many more points than that. After he left, we promoted from within and have Don Morel, who, in 8 years (minus the COVID season of 2020) has lost the Monon Bell four times, three of those times when a share of the conference championship was on the line (2022 and 2023) and once when an outright NCAC title was on the line (2019). He has given us 2 NCAC Co-Championships (2018 and 2019) with players who were holdovers from the Raeburn era. He has given us 1 playoff appearance which was a blow-out loss in the first round in 2019. Every Monon Bell game under Morel has been a one-possession game, save 2022 when we were defeated by DePauw 49-14. With all due respect, one must acknowledge the fact that Wabash football is not what it used to be. With the senior class of 2024 becoming the first senior class since that of 1999 to lose the Bell 3 out of 4 times, with DePauw winning three straight NCAC titles, one cannot help but believe that our football program has fallen backwards and is soon on track to becoming the perennial "also rans" of the Monon Bell rivalry and the NCAC. It is becoming ever-increasingly frustrating to watch Wabash football, especially when we face DePauw, only to see black-and-gold fans pour onto the field after yet another close game in which Wabash had multiple chances to win. The energy of this current coaching administration seems to be content with what Wabash football has become. As an alumnus who has been a Wabash fan since childhood, it has become embarrassing to witness this year after year.  The best recruiting tool any sports team can have is the act and reputation of winning. The best high school players will want to attend the college with the team that is going to win, especially the big games, like that of the Monon Bell and those games which the conference championship rides on, which, most recently, has also been the Monon Bell game. If we continue on the pattern that we are now as a program, our rivals at Depauw will be recruiting better players, will continue to defeat us in the Monon Bell game, and will continue to dominate the NCAC just as we once did 8 years ago. It is a sad day as a Wabash Man when I look at Depauw and I think to myself, "that's what we used to be." All of this being said, it is time for Wabash football to consider where it wants to go as a program. If Wabash is to reverse the current trend it is on of losing the Bell 3 out of 4 years, losing the NCAC, and perennially missing the playoffs, new leadership of the program is required. Please help Wabash football find a new leader and head coach who can take us back to the days of being perennial Monon Bell and   NCAC Champions, and hopefully, one day, a national championship which we still have yet to win. Thank you for your time and consideration of the facts as presented here.

Sincerely,
Paul Joseph Smith
Wabash Class of 2008"

[Crawford]

Thank you Paul Joseph Smith.  I'm 20 years older than you and also grew-up cheering the Little Giants and was in the stadium before the program started winnning.  A few years ago while visiting Crawfordsville I stopped at the athletic facilities and found the football offices over at the old Armory.  The offices were upstairs the stairs up and the waiting room outside the offices was sad.  I can only imagine what a prospective student and his parents must have thought about being received there.  It said a lot about where Wabash's priorities are with regard to football.