FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[SPECIAL TEAMS STARTER]

Has there been any talk of any additional moves from the NCAC to the HCAC? Geographically you would think this would make sense for a number of the NCAC Schools.

[Pat Coleman]

I have not heard anyone talking about teams moving from the NCAC to the HCAC.

[WLG Old Historian]

Speaking from past experience, I think it would be unlikely that a NCAC member would join the HCAC. Wabash, DePauw and Rose-Hulman were former members of the ICAC which became the HCAC after the addition of Ohio based schools. DePauw and Rose-Hulman left to join the SCAC and also would have liked Wabash to join. Wabash was given information that they would be welcome to join the CCIW. But, after trying to join, Wabash was rejected. The NCAC then contacted Wabash about joining. DePauw and Rose-Hulman left the SCAC for, among other things, travel costs. DePauw landed in the NCAC and Rose-Hulman back into the HCAC. Both Wabash and DePauw wanted to be in a conference with similar academic values, which they believed the HCAC did not fully meet their criteria. The NCAC has quite a few members of an old academic group known as the Great Lakes Collegiate Association (colleges from Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, Ohio and Wisconsin). These colleges in much earlier years (1950's) was a group that very often tried to schedule each other in all sports. And some athletic directors and other administrators had visions of actually forming a conference.
So, although Rose-Hulman did return. Wabash and DePauw most probably will stay in the NCAC and if they left would seek another conference other than the HCAC. Also would be of an opinion that Wabash and DePauw would like Rose-Hulman to join them in the NCAC.

[SPECIAL TEAMS STARTER]

Thanks WLG Old Historian for the explanation! When you look at the geography and the opportunity that the HCAC offers to Wabash, DePauw, Trine and other Ohio Schools there has to be a reason that schools are shying away from the HCAC. You've brought clarity to why the HCAC is struggling so.

If the HCAC is going to survive it looks like the ADs and Presidents need to "circle the wagons" and then hire a sharp PR person or the conference will disintegrate,

[cush]

Always thought Hillsdale would be better off in Division III and could fit the NCAC

[SPECIAL TEAMS STARTER]

I just read a post on twitter from a former Illinois Wesleyan University hoops player and grad. Professionally he is a Senior Vice President of an Insurance company. He says he has a Rock Solid source that indicates RHIT is not interested in moving to the NCAC. When you look at the geographics involved they would be putting in a lot of travel time if they were to participate in all the sports the NCAC offered. That is one of the main reasons Hiram listed for leaving the NCAC. I guess it will be interesting to see how this all plays out and just how solid his source is.

[Little Giant 89]

Liam Thompson got a tryout with the New York Giants!

[sigma one]

I have long thought that Rose-Hulman is not a good candidate for the NCAC.  The distances are such that the Ohio schools would not be interested in sending both men's and women's teams another time to west central Indiana. Going back a good ways, the Ohio schools sometimes complained about traveling to Wabash (and that was just for the men).  When DePauw joined more than a decade ago and they had to send all teams so far, the situation got worse for them.  I'm not surprised that R-H wants to stay closer to home and I never thought the NCAC would be after them anyway.
     Could be fun to speculate if the NCAC wants to add a member which OAC schools might be interest in taking the leap.  I can't think of many that would want to add the travel, particularly if they are strapped for money.  JCU had the incentive of getting out from under UMU's shadow in the most visible of all sports  because in many years the small (and shrinking) at-large number of post season football teams was shrinking.  As someone mentioned recently, the irony of expanding the playoff number to 40.   

[WLG Old Historian]

Obviously I am not an insider. I am only going by past history and the speculation on this site.  Rose-Hulman may not want to move to another conference. But the handwriting is on the wall that the HCAC could face future difficulties with the impending departure of Defiance and the rumored difficulties that Bluffton will face. On the other hand, the NCAC will most likely be looking for a 10th school and offers (in this day and age) stability. Yes, my guess is they are more likely to add an Ohio school. I also would say that the OAC would probably like a 10th school, which will no doubt will be an Ohio school. From Rose-Hulman's point of view, yes, the HCAC is great for short trips, but Wabash and DePauw seem to have little trouble with long trips to far off Ohio. Wabash's wrestling team even travels to Illinois and Iowa for meets because wrestling is a sparse sport in Indiana small colleges. And finally, the midwestern states will be facing a shortage of high school graduates in the coming years and have to go to other parts of the country in search of eligible high school graduates.  John Carroll presumably moved to the NCAC to increase their "visability." Why wouldn't Rose-Hulman want to do the same.

[SPECIAL TEAMS STARTER]

I think you make a great point. How to increase visibility for the university. It would seem to me that winning conference championships would increase the visibility for a university. I think RHIT would stand a much better chance at winning conference championships at least in football in the HCAC rather than the NCAC. Possibly that is the reason Quillman said he has a Rock Solid source that indicates RHIT is not interested in the NCAC. But I have no inside information so time will tell.

"Which would you rather be? A small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. Dr. Wilbur Gould, Ohio State University, College of Food Science 1981

[sigma one]

Rose-Hulman hardly needs to increase its visibility.  Their football roster for the 2023 season listed players from 25 states.  For the last 25 consecutive years US News and World Report has named R-HU the top undergraduate engineering college in the country of 272 schools in that category.  They place all or almost all their graduates in really good positions.  That said, I agree that winning the conference in football or at least being highly competitive every year  entices academically exceptional student-athletes who want their type of education to consider going there.
     

[Pat Coleman]

I think you make a great point. How to increase visibility for the university. It would seem to me that winning conference championships would increase the visibility for a university. I think RHIT would stand a much better chance at winning conference championships at least in football in the HCAC rather than the NCAC. Possibly that is the reason Quillman said he has a Rock Solid source that indicates RHIT is not interested in the NCAC. But I have no inside information so time will tell.

"Which would you rather be? A small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. Dr. Wilbur Gould, Ohio State University, College of Food Science 1981

Just FYI -- Quillman is not a former IWU player.

I also don't see the post you are referencing after going back through the hundreds of Bob tweets for the past week.

[Kuiper]

I think you make a great point. How to increase visibility for the university. It would seem to me that winning conference championships would increase the visibility for a university. I think RHIT would stand a much better chance at winning conference championships at least in football in the HCAC rather than the NCAC. Possibly that is the reason Quillman said he has a Rock Solid source that indicates RHIT is not interested in the NCAC. But I have no inside information so time will tell.

"Which would you rather be? A small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond. Dr. Wilbur Gould, Ohio State University, College of Food Science 1981

Just FYI -- Quillman is not a former IWU player.

I also don't see the post you are referencing after going back through the hundreds of Bob tweets for the past week.

Here is the tweet from Quillman refuting the Rose-Hulman rumors.  It was from January 5 after the JCU rumors surfaced, so it's not exactly a recent post given how fast things have been changing lately.

https://x.com/IWUhoopscom/status/1743353034569076932

There has been a little chatter about Rose-Hulman connected to all of this...that possibly RHIT would move to the NCAC.

Rock-solid source says Rose-Hulman has no plans to join the NCAC.

[SPECIAL TEAMS STARTER]

Thanks Kuiper for providing the backup info. I think regardless of whether RHIT goes or stays all of these D3 conferences have their work cut out for them as we approach this college age generation cliff. If RHIT stays in the HCAC Dr. Wilbur Gould would be proud of them.

"Which would you rather be? A small fish in a big pond or a big fish in a small pond". Dr. Wilbur Gould, Ohio State University, College of Food Science 1981

[LG67]

The "norm" seems to be 10 teams in a conference.  Currently there are 32 teams and 4 conferences in Region 4. Will conferences of 8 teams be able to find 2 OOC opponents every year? Perhaps teams from other Regions could move in, but it seems like a major realignment is likely in any case.  And there is always travel expense concerns, as previously mentioned.

In addition to sustaining athletics, there is the broader issue of overall institution viability and one of the key indicators of that is endowment-per-student (eps).  According to the website College Raptor, of the 32 institutions in this region, 14 have eps between $100K and $508K, and 18 have eps below $100K.  I don't know if $100K is a "magic number", but it doesn't provide much leeway.