FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[WLG Old Historian]

I would like to mention one other thing that I read on this message board years ago. Under the coaching of former coach Kehres (the elder) I remember it being said that when Mount Union had a large lead in the second half against a much lesser opponent, many times Mount Union would either go for a field goal when they could have easily kept the drive going for another TD and that FG attempt sometimes came on 2nd or 3rd down. Also, to prevent further scoring against their thoroughly beaten opponent Mount Union would take a knee on 1st,2nd and 3rd down before punting.

I see nothing wrong with this. If an opponent is thoroughly beaten, outclassed, inferior (whatever the word that you want to use), there comes a time to "call off the dogs" to prevent unnecessary injury (let alone total embarrassment). That in my mind is showing sportmanship rather than running up your own score for your own delight.

[Kira & Jaxon's Dad]

I would like to mention one other thing that I read on this message board years ago. Under the coaching of former coach Kehres (the elder) I remember it being said that when Mount Union had a large lead in the second half against a much lesser opponent, many times Mount Union would either go for a field goal when they could have easily kept the drive going for another TD and that FG attempt sometimes came on 2nd or 3rd down. Also, to prevent further scoring against their thoroughly beaten opponent Mount Union would take a knee on 1st,2nd and 3rd down before punting.

I see nothing wrong with this. If an opponent is thoroughly beaten, outclassed, inferior (whatever the word that you want to use), there comes a time to "call off the dogs" to prevent unnecessary injury (let alone total embarrassment). That in my mind is showing sportmanship rather than running up your own score for your own delight.

Mount Union did this twice last Saturday vs Wilmington. Two Raider players ran out of bounds at the one yard line instead of scoring touchdowns.  Mount then kicked FGs on the ensuing play.

[WAF-WDE]

Re:  WC - OBE "game".

Question 2:  What is the future of D3 institutions given the current financial struggles for a great number of them (evident in the NCAC and other conferences), which may well reduce both athletic and academic funds? (More college closures in the near future?)

Many small colleges and universities highlight the opportunity to participate in intercollegiate athletics and other extracurricular activities as part of their recruitment pitch.  It certainly was one of the things that attracted me and my wife to our undergraduate institutions.

Nonetheless, numerous small colleges and universities face significant financial challenges that will undoubtedly result in a loss of D3 institutions or specific teams at institutions that remain in D3.  It will also undoubtedly result in budget cuts in these institutions' athletic departments.  One of the manifestations will be conference realignment and increased numbers of affiliate conference memberships for single sports.  I think fans of D3 sports have to be ready for a more dynamic landscape.

[maripp2002]

Re:  WC - OBE "game".

Question 3:  If one of the key performers in a music concert decided to get up and leave in the middle of a solo, what would be the audience and reviewers'reactions?

I don't think we're going to come to an agreement on this. Wabash played everyone they brought in an attempt to find a team that was suitably capable of giving Oberlin a chance, they tried not to embarrass the guys who are working hard, most playing iron man football, and carrying the banner for their school.

You could say there is a life lesson learned that Wabash didn't give it their all and they quit mid-game, depriving Oberlin of the chance to improve, or you could argue that there is a life lesson learned that letting someone who is struggling leave with a little pride is the better approach.

I know which way I lean, and you'll simply never convince me that a 52-0 win, in which the home team had 17 yards, and both teams leave relatively healthy, represents anything other than the right move for both teams to cut that game short.

As to your question about a music performance, many acts have literally been booed off the stage in the past, leaving the audience relieved to have seen something end early that was otherwise painful and embarrassing for everyone, and I'll stop that analogy right there.

[wally_wabash]

Thought this should be shared here as it appears WashU will become a football only member of the NCAC:

https://x.com/IWUhoopscom/status/1845206890243846488?t=qFJdBTOKj2GD8c68SGXHoA&s=19

CWRU apparently has lost an opportunity to return as football affiliate. Unless Oberlin drops football.

New thought. Chicago and CWRU join NCAC making 12 football teams.

I'm not sure 12 team leagues make sense when you only need 6 to qualify for an AQ.  Why have one ticket to the tournament when you could have two?  The divisional structure for D3 football is kind of wonky and I'm not sure it's worked out particularly well where its been tried. 

Perhaps the CCIW didn't anticipate WASHU averaging 3rd in the conference leaving their lesser performing members to become too butthurt over an affiliate outperforming them. In essence, they got "St. Thomased"

Is this sourced?  I don't think this is it at all.  Why would Millikin care if WashU finishes third instead of Illinois Wesleyan?  It doesn't make any sense. 

[wally_wabash]

Re:  WC - OBE "game".

I participated in and coached sports.  The basic principles I was taught and followed were: athletic competition is a learning experience, strive to do your best, and never quit during a contest. (It is perfectly acceptable to quit, for a variety of reasons, after attempting to participate in any endeavor.)

The Wabash-Obe game followed only one of those guidelines:  Learning -- the players learned it's acceptable to quit striving during an event. ("Taking a knee" is, or should be, offensive to everyone at the event.)  That reflects negatively on the sport, the officials, the coaches, and the institutions; plus, it represents cheating 1) the fans of an event for which they spent time and money, and, 2) the players of an opportunity to improve their skills and enjoyment.

We'll disagree about quitting.  I watched on Sunday start to finish and I don't think I saw anybody quit.  I think the only time I can say I saw a team actually quit was a game way way back when Wabash scored 80 against Hiram.  Creighton got roasted by some for not calling off the dogs and he apologized (as I recall) even though he probably didn't need to.  Guys at the bottom of the depth chart getting an opportunity to go on Saturday can't be expected to not compete.  But Hiram had a part to play in that 80 points also- there was a distinct lack of effort as that game got away. 

There's not one way to deal with lopsided results that's going to please everybody.  If you stay on the gas because we gotta compete one-thousand percent one-hundred percent of the time, you catch grief for being the toolbox that runs up the score on defeated opponents.  If you take a knee in odd circumstances or kick field goals on first down or whatever, you catch grief for disrespecting the game.  There's no one right way to handle those situations.  I trust coaches to navigate those scenarios in whatever way aligns with their priorities whether it is going all out and getting full speed game reps for reserves or protecting players and getting to the end of the decided contest with as little risk as possible.  Both are fine.  Neither will satisfy everybody. 

[WLG Old Historian]

Please take this as just a commentary and not pointing a finger at anyone, but it appears as if the argument of Ohio schools does not want to have to travel much farther out of their way than Wabash and DePauw has possibly been evaporated with the pending (although a rumor at this stage) announcement of Washington (St. Louis) joining the NCAC as a football only affiliate. Rose-Hulman (they apparently don't want to join anyway) would have been a shorter trip. And yes, I know it is football team travel only, not all sports travel.

[sigma one]

I agree with Wally about two qualifiers for the playoffs.  How could this happen? Yes, Chicago in the west and Case Western in the east.  Making the dividing line Columbus, the conference would still need one  more eastern member to join Oberlin, Wooster, Kenyon, Denison, and John Carroll. That would leave Chicago, Washington U, DePauw, Wabash, and Wittenberg in the west.  Who are the candidates that the NCAC might consider given their current standards?  No one comes to mind immediately in the east who would shift conferences,  In the west, Centre (probably not but who knows). Any other candidates?  I do not think any CCIW schools would jump ship.  The Michigan schools are committed to their long-term relationships. So,  twothe six-team conferences is intriguing. The various scenarios are highly speculative. 
     
Nice exercise to talk about though. 

[maripp2002]

Sigma one, I don't think you have to take on anyone else if you took on U Chicago, Case, and Wash U, because for some reason you left off OWU (unless you know something I don't). That'd give you the 12 you need.

I do think you'd need to balance the conferences though, because, just going by recent history, the western conference would have far more fire power than the east has, and I feel pretty safe in saying you're not going to have the SOS you'd need for a second spot with wins over the teams that traditionally finish toward the bottom of the NCAC.

[sigma one]

Thanks. In the middle of the night I thought, oops, you neglected OWU.  My bad.  I thought about SOS and the western half being much stronger than the eastern half.  I don't have solution in mind.  Taking  one the lower tier of the east, usually Oberlin and Kenyon, their travel would be consistently be a burden.  So I just don't know.
   Middle of the night thoughts on Oberlin.  Either the administration needs to change its attitude and the coaches need to recruit better, or they might as well fold the program.  Right now, they are an impossible way from being competitive.  They has 7(!) freshmen on this year's roster.  With any attrition at all, they will have no sophomore class, and even not the sophomores will be a lost class.  As I've mentioned before, I admire their players for their loyalty to the program.  But who will now want to come there as a player given the state of the program?   There's a long road ahead.  I recall some years ago when Earlham faced a similar situation and dropped football.  In about 2019 or so, they put together a group that included outsiders to recommend whether they should start again.  I do not know what the commission reported, but there has been no indication that they are planning a restart..
     Not that I think a two-conference solution is coming, but as I said yesterday it's an interesting exercise.   

[VoodooDoc]

The only thing missing from the Wabash game at Oberlin on Sunday was the interpretive dancer at half time.

[smedindy]

I think the only thing stopping Oberlin from dropping football may be John Heisman's legacy.

They also have a legacy with Cass Jackson as one of the first African American head coaches outside of the HBCU's. He's also the last coach to finish .500 or over (9-9 in 1973 and 1974)

From 1990 through 2000 - they won three games. THREE! In 11 seasons. That may be the nadir.

[DePauwalum05]

Tigers roll at Denison, scoring on first seven possessions plus a pick-six. Fun to watch the DePauw D tackling technique these last few years vs. Fabrocini, wrapping up low against the big back, limiting him to 27 yards and Denison to 2 yards rushing overall. McCahill & Ballentine with another big day, connecting for four more TDs.

Defense was a bit looser than expected. Denison's first/year QB looked very good and will likely be a threat going forward.

Another tough matchup with Witt coming to the 'castle this week. It must be a challenging season for Witt with the cancelled game amid national controversy around Springfield, tough budget cuts etc... I'm sure they will bring it for another hard fought matchup.

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Might be old news now, but the NCAC made the WashU addition official:

https://northcoast.org/news/2024/10/18/ncac-welcomes-washington-university-in-st-louis-football.aspx

[maripp2002]

I was thinking about the Wash U addition, and from a football perspective it's undeniably an upgrade. What was interesting to me is just how much larger Wash U is, enrollment-wise, than the other NCAC schools. It's about 3 times larger than Oberlin which has the highest enrollment, and about 10 times Wabash enrollment, which is the lowest (not counting Hiram). The long and the short of this is just to say, you can understand why the UAA exists because those medium-sized universities just don't fit the profile for small liberal arts colleges that otherwise make-up a large portion of d3.