FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[smedindy]

Lancer - There was always an aura, a swagger with Witt until Wabash beat them twice in '02. The swagger is a bit muted now.

I really don't think we're going to see any more Mt. Union dynsatys any more. There are too many teams reaching that level. They may win a championship or three or five down the road, but not year after year.

And it will take a really special year for an NCAC team to get there. No slam against the NCAC, but they'll have to win two more games after slaying the Purple beast to get there.

[scotty]

so what im hearing is...bring in 240 players...break the bank for coaches...lower academics, maybe...is this what D3 has become...again, im naive or ignorant, maybe both,,,

[DarkSide-D]

BashBacker,

I already have my room reserved for the game.  Should be a big one.  Granted Wooster is down this year, but it will be one heck of a game.  As far as your question, I personally hope that the Wabash-Gheny game wont be the determinate of the conference.  If by chance it is, I will be pulling for the team I think will best represent the conference in the playoffs (at this point Wabash would be better than Gheny.)

As far as the Witt-Bash game in 02, I don't think that that particular game ushered in an era where NCAC teams believed they could compete.  There has always been teams that competed with Witt.  If one looks at the long run Witt had for titles, there is a year in the middle where three teams shared (Witt, Woo, Gheny--97).  So teams have known they could compete.  In my opinion, the Witt-Bash games in 02 showed prospective recruits that there are other good teams in the NCAC, and with their help, those teams could become great.  I think that those loses, especialy the playoff lose, may have cost Witt some much needed recruits.

In regards to a NCAC team reaching the MUC status, I dont believe it will ever happen.  I have heard a tale from a former coach that one factor leading to the departure of Coach Barnes was because a leading member of Wooster's faculty said that Wooster would never be permitted to compete in such a way because the school simply would not dedicate itself to the program.  Perhaps Wooster has changed its stance (but if history means anything they will be changing back in about...oh...five years)  I dont agree with the comment conference schools lmust lower their academic standards.  In order to play football, you must be intelligent.  Many great players are (brace yourselves) smart!  Granted there are some real dip sticks out there, but at a DIII level, few players aspire to go pro and make millions (I'm sure we all remember Katzenmoyer's [sp?] famous words[VCR programming anyone?]).  Many seek to recieve a solid education and paly a lil ball while doing so.  But that is only my humble opinion, it can be done.

By the way BB, perhaps you would like to partake in some sweet nector of the gods with me on the 15th?

[BashBacker#16]

Darkside,

Good post.  I was one up on you and thought the same thing.  Not confirmed yet on the trek but looking at it.  I have a former teammate in Troy, OH so it is a good spot to stay on Friday and head up on Saturday morning.  I'll let you know.  No question it will be a battle.  We owe you guys for the last 2 years.

Maybe I can pick up Knott, Short, and Boulais on the way and we could play "kill the man with the ball?"  Would you still go with the tinted visor???     Just messing with you!

Good luck to the NCAC teams this weekend...

Very little conversations about Alma/Witt this weekend???  Doesn't Alma have a stud QB that is 6'2 220?  You'd think they would have the edge with their passing game.  You would also think opposing teams will be putting 8 in the box to slow Murray while making the Frosh QB throw downfield.  I think we will know a lot more about Witt's chances in the league based on Saturday's performance.

[aueagle]

Darkside: The OWU QB on the ONLY title team (NCAC) the Bishops have had was Mike Reese. The Bishops also had an outstanding defensive end on that 1989 team, Hank Critchfield Player of the Year, Neil Ringers.

[DarkSide-D]

Sounds like a plan BB, but only if I can pull TSutt off the sidelines for my team.   

[Vince McMahon]

I think the important thing to note right now is that there is still A LOT of football to be played.  Yes, Gheny's offense is struggling to score a lot of points.  On the other hand, a lot of people were throwing up red flags about Witt and Wooster's offenses after the first week of the season...and they both did alright in week 2.  I think if the Gators can get someone to settle into the tailback spot until Tarquinio gets back, they won't need to panic.  Finding a kicking game wouldn't hurt either.  But again, the bottom line is that automatic qualifier.  The non-conf. games can tell us about a team, but once the conference slate starts, they really don't mean anything.    A lot can happen in the next 9 weeks.   

[BashDad]

Best of luck to the L'il Giants and other NCAC teams in action tomorrow!  Here's hoping you all enjoy safe, injury-free play.

WABASH ALWAYS FIGHTS!!

[OldPhart]

so what im hearing is...bring in 240 players...break the bank for coaches...lower academics, maybe...is this what D3 has become...again, im naive or ignorant, maybe both,,,

I am speaking from the perspective of a faculty member who has been at Thiel College for over 20 years.

For years Thiel had a miserable program with no budget or stadium.  Overall, the student head count was about 800.  They put the money into a stadium & did put a lot of money into hiring coaches.  They recruit much better now.  However, there is an upper limit on how many recruits you are going to pick up when recruits know that they have little chance of seeing any game time until they are at least Sophomores because the depth is so much better. 

Thiel is now up around 1200 students overall, the campus looks better,  the Football team has the highest GPA of any of Thiel's male varsity teams, and there is a definite academic minimum that prospects must achieve if they are going to be recruited.  Thiel has gone from holding the D3 winless streak (over 30 games at one time) to being a respectable program.  I am not saying that money & attention to football is the ONLY factor in the overall improvement of Thiel's fortunes (paying attention to technology needs and curb appeal helps too) - but their example shows you can develop a program without running big deficits or sacrificing academic principles. 

Of course - it is possible to bring in lots of players with low academic potential.  Thiel did that for some time, I can't recall exactly which year/years it was, but I seem to recall a year when they didn't honor the seniors at the last home game - NO seniors!  They had all dropped out, flunked out or transferred.  I don't know of any D3 school that has a special "football" curriculum designed to keep players eligible. 

[wally_wabash]

Relax, lancer.  It wasn't my idea...the notion that the Wabash/Witt '02 game played a significant role in bringing Witt back down to earth wasn't my idea (read a few posts prior to that and you'll find that it came from somebody in your own camp). 

Whether you agree with my analysis or not, I think what is undeniable is that something about Wittenberg football changed on that day and because of it, we have a wide open conference again.  The road to an NCAC championship used to run through Springfield and Springfield only.  Now if you want to win an NCAC championship, you need to schedule a multi-stop tour of the midwest. 

[Pat Coleman]

FYI, I moved the pick-ems into a separate board under the General Football topic, just to keep them all in one place.

There's a second reason, but I can't go into it here. Just know that it was considered necessary.

[DarkSide-D]

Old Phart,

I thought Kenyon held the honor of the longest losing streak.  If that is so, please do not attempt to rob them of their glory.   

[wally_wabash]

Oberlin holds the all divisions record for longest losing streak at 44 games. 

Oberlin snapped the 44-game losing streak with a win against Kenyon on Oct. 20, 2001.  The last  game Oberlin won before that game was against Thiel in the opening game of the 1997 season. 

[kcreds]

I am going to continue to try not to post but just read on this great board. The problem is, it is very difficult to stand by and not voice an opinion on something I feel strongly about. I have always been a firm believer that you don't talk bad about your coaches during the season or any other time. If you feel strongly that a coach is not getting the job done then express yourself to the AD and not on here. If you truly love your school and team then just support them. Nothing wrong with constructive criticism but beyond that you could actually hurt the program. How? Potential recruits or their parents may be reading those posts. Current players, Jr. has been forbidden, may read the posts and lose respect for the coaches or if in fact they had already lost respect then it just adds fuel to the fire which hurts team chemistry.

I made a comment prior to the season starting that caused a big debate. The topic was coaches getting involved with the academic side of their players. I for one am very happy with Coach H's team study times. I also like his offense. I think they have been getting the job done offensively. A good coach has to be able to recruit. Coach H was a big reason Jr decided to go to OWU. Jr may not amount to anything but he was recruited heavily by DII and DIII schools in football and DI in baseball. I say that not to brag but to show that Jr chose OWU over the other schools including Wittenberg. I was also impressed with the freshman class that was recruited this year. Just be careful when you ask for a coaching change, what you might get can be worse. Coach H wants to win and I stand behind him. Go Bishops!  

[oldguy]

The Bishop,

Those 8-2, 9-1 teams that lost to Witt could have won if they had an offense at all.  I believe the final one of those years was either 10-0, or 14-0.  That OWU defense that year was one of the best I've ever seen, but their offense was terrible.  The only reason Witt scored was because OWU's offense turned the ball over in Witts territory.  Holloway is why they run that offense.

As to the 2002 Witt-Wabash game being the end of Witts dynasty, if you will,

Look, I know you Wabash guys like to think you joined the league like gangbusters and changed all our lives forever, but lets get real.  There was a lot of competition before you joined.  Especially between Witt and Allegheny.   Trust me, the seeds of change started before that game.  I don't think the telling factor of that game was that Wabash won, I think it was more telling that the score was 46-43 rather than 17-14.  The dominant Witt teams had one thing in common...great defense.  If you look at the scores from past years, you'll see the defense had been getting progressively less dominant.  A team cannot be dominant by depending on its offense to score 50 points to win a game.