FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[seinfeld]

I saw a post over the weekend that said Holmes was out for the rest of the year after injuring his collarbone, but then I heard in another place that he is not out for the year and will be back as soon as this weekend. Anyone know the story?

[wally_wabash]

OWU also doesn't have the line that AC had and they sure as heck don't have Shane Ream.  You can run the wing successfully if you have: big, athletic offensive linemen and a stud running back.  OWU had a very good o-line and a stud RB in '01, and they did pretty well (9-1, lost to Witt, didn't play Wabash so we'll never know).  But then I'd argue that if you have a big offensive line and a stud running back, you can probably run just about any offense you want and be successful. 

[ScotsFan]

i'm glad you're a wooster fan though. let's focus on hating that team from springfield.

That's one thing we can agree on!

[BashBacker#16]

You guys are killing me on this Bell talk.  Let's wait until next week!  One comment though...Aaron Selby will be a key guy in this year's game with the containment of Wiethoff. 

How sick are Harbaugh's numbers:
PASSING AVG/GAME        Team Cl  G Att Cmp Int  Pct.  Yds TD Avg/G
------------------------------------------------------------------
1. Russ Harbaugh....... WAB  SR  8 265 184   3  69.4 2469 22 308.6

Even though we have a game left in the NCAC, anyone want to take some shots at the post-season awards???  O Player of the Year?  Has to be Harbaugh doesn't it?  D Player of the Year?  McConnell - Kenyon's LB among others?  Coach of the Year?

[Jammin]

Okay, Bashbacker16, I'll bite:

With respect to Kenyon's Coombs, Harbaugh is clearly the offensive player of the year, irregardless of what he does vs. Denison. If he has another typical Harbaugh day, he'll hit 67-75 percent of his passes, eclipse 300 yards, and find Summers, Russell, and, oh, let's say Nelson for touchdowns. We'll all go, "ho, hum," another day. BB16 -- remember when 300 yards was a BIG deal? How many did Ings have? Before him? Knott played with our 300-yard passing brains, that's for sure. But this is quietly an amazing season -- Harbaugh slaughters the Wabash record for completion percentage and TD to INT ratio by a large margin. And then there's the 2,400+ yards... already!

If the defensive player of the year goes to the best defensive player on the top defensive team, it has to go to Wabash's Pynenberg. But how likely is the league to give it to a sophomore, in spite of the numbers (15 tackles vs. Allegheny?). He's on the bottom of the pile in every picture taken at that game. Near as I can tell, he did the same thing vs. Wittenberg, too. So, if a sophomore "can't" get it, does it go to Selby or Parker? Parker has played every game and has quietly taken a back seat. But he makes plays. Made the hit that, I think, was the biggest play of the Wabash vs. Wittenberg game when Holmes threw the interception to Foster. Not sure that's the one that caused the injury (could have been when Tamarco White sandwiched him), but Holmes wasn't the same after that. (Though private kudos to the kid for a gutty, painful performance; we all knew he was in some serious pain and was out there battling. That toughness will serve him well in what ever he does in life.)

Bottom line: as good as Wabash's defensive numbers have been -- assuming Denison doesn't explode for 500 yards and 40 points this weekend -- the defensive player of the year has to go to a Little Giant.

[oldguy]

I hear the same argument about the Wing-T from every Wing-T supporter.  They all say its based on personnel. 

Now, I'm not denying the fact that the wing-t can win you some games and even someday (??) lets a team like OWU sneak out a conference championship (although it hasn't happened and won't, in my opinion), if they have great personnel.  And I emphasize great.

I think the major point from those of us who dislike that form of offense is that it will never allow a team to get to the NEXT level.  Hence, you rarely see it in div 1 college football and even pretty rarely in D-III.  Check out playoff success and the type of offense teams run.  I think Augustana made it to Mount a couple times, but thats the most success I can remember.  Playoff teams are too fast and too good to fall for the misdirection and horizontal garbage for more than a quarter.  There's no way to open it up when you are down.

That OWU team with Capone that went 9-1, not only got beat by Witt, but got destroyed 39-7.  And the game wasn't even as close as that score.  The Allegheny team with that transfer QB also got handled by a good defense in Witt 25-0.  Thats right...zero. 

You can preach about personnel all you want.  The fact is, the wing-t is a high school offense for small schools that don't have the size and athletic ability to run a normal offense, or do not have a QB that can throw.  It is dying in college football and deservedly so.

OWU is in a recruiting hotbed.  They don't need to run that offense.  They will never do anything if they don't change it.

[DarkSide-D]

Oldguy,

Lets not forget that OWU just barly beat Wooster in 01.  Had Woos reciever got that last yard on the last play, an 8-2 OWU would have lost to a 5-5 Woo.  I know this is in the past, but it is just to point out that even with the stud RB and stud OLINE OWU had that year, they barly beat the sub-500 Wooster

[DarkSide-D]

Ski,

I agree with your comments about the Hindsight thing.  I just mentioned it to point out that I may not know what the heck I am talking about.

[Vince McMahon]

Yes, Oldguy, Witt shut us out in '98.  That was Hrovat's first year and it was the third game of the season.  Wooster was a damn good team that year and we hung 40 points on them (granted 14 of them were in OT).  I'll give Witt's D the credit there, but it's not like we would've scored a ton if we were using a run and shoot.  As I recall the weather was miserable that day.

I will admit this much.  Had Miller not transferred in we probably would've lost 2 more games than we did.  That offense was just too complex for a rookie to learn on the fly and expect to beat great D's. 

[nike]

kcreds,
Looking at season stats for the conference, I see OWU's leading rusher is the quarterback, the one who has started what maybe two or three games. Doesn't that tell you something?  Wooster had a million yards of offense against Hiram, but that doesn't mean anything' because we lost to Wabash and Kenyon. 
All my buddy was saying is that you guys could not score a touchdown from two yards out and first down. No power game. Just punch it in. You have never second guessed a coach? I bet you're the only one here who hasn't.
Heck, coaches second guess themselves.
O.K. I THINK Wooster will beat OWU. We have a very good offense and a decent defense. You have a very good defense and a lousy offense against good teams.
Let us see how you do this week against Oberlin and how we do against Witt. And we will see you in a couple weeks on Beall Ave.

[bashbrother]

Back in business! 

I need to get caught up.

Do we have a straight story on Holmes for the rest of the season?

Anyone who saw the Gheny game.... Did Gheny just exploit the weakness in our D?

[kcreds]

Nike: Classless people yell comments to the coaches from the stands. I haven't agreed all the time with any of the coaches that have coached my kids but I don't voice it from the stands. I have coached for 27 years and I don't expect any of our fans to agree with me all the time but I do respect the fact they don't shout out at me during games. When you do that, are you trying to look smarter than the coach? Monday morning quarterback is okay by me on here or any other sports talk outlet. Just like someone already said, this board gives you the chance to vent and talk about what excites us all, football. Nike, I look forward to visiting Wooster and hearing your comments after the game but even if OWU wins, it will be a sad time because our season will be over.

I have faith in the OWU coaching staff and their players to finish strong. The Wing-T might not be that popular with some of you but I like it. I do agree however that you have to pass efficiently out of it to maintain balance. When OWU's offense is clicking, the passing game is there and it is fun to watch. I still believe however, you win with defense. Go Bishops!     

[nike]

kcreds,
Some things fans yell are indeed classless. Some are said out of care and concern for the team.
But you are certainly right-this season has gone very fast and after last year, the sudden end will be hard to take.
Regarding defense-the offense HAS to help.
Last year in the playoffs we held Carthage to under 100 yards of offense, no offensive touchdowns and still lost. Our offense had seven turnovers and simply played awful. 
Win or lose I'll be here. You'll love the bagpipes.

[usee]

I think the major point from those of us who dislike that form of offense is that it will never allow a team to get to the NEXT level.  Hence, you rarely see it in div 1 college football and even pretty rarely in D-III.  Check out playoff success and the type of offense teams run.  I think Augustana made it to Mount a couple times, but thats the most success I can remember.  Playoff teams are too fast and too good to fall for the misdirection and horizontal garbage for more than a quarter.  There's no way to open it up when you are down.

oldguy-you must not be that "old" if the augie/mt union game is all the success you can remember. augie won 4 national championships in a row in the 80's w that wing-t. in addition they are at or near the top of the cciw (arguably one of the toughest d3 conf) every year since 1980. thats 25 years of a lot of success running that mind numbing offense. when they haven't won the conference or in the playoffs, its usually because their defense hasn't been up to snuff. I totally disagree w your assertion that you can't win w the wing t. it has no basis in fact

[dansand]

Usee is absolutely right. Ever since I've been reading this board, someone, at some point (usually on the CCIW board) suggests the wing-T is out-dated or passe. In terms of popularity, that may be right. But, in terms of effectiveness, there's no proof of it. As I pointed out repeatedly in the pre-season, and Usee reiterated, the differences between Augie now (although they still have very solid teams) and Augie during their '80s run are defense and special teams (particularly their return game). Offensively, they're as good now as they've ever been. One point I can't argue with is that it is definitely not a come-from-behind offense, but it never has been and certainly wasn't in the '80s when Augie was winning four straight national titles.