FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[ADL70]

My understanding of the Ivys is they can give athletic scholarships, but the amount is need based.  My impression maybe wrong, but I've been given that idea somewhere.

[formerd3db]

My understanding of the Ivys is they can give athletic scholarships, but the amount is need based. My impression maybe wrong, but I've been given that idea somewhere.

cwru70: The Ivy Group schools do not give athletic scholarships; they are prohibited from doing so by their league rules/regulations.  The financial aid given is either need based, grants, etc., and student-athletes there have to qualify just like any other students who apply.  It is my understanding, however, that each Ivy school has a certain amount of "slots" or % of admissions that the coaching staffs of any Ivy sport are allotted for acceptance into the general enrollment.  However, those prospective students still have to qualify for a certain level of academic achievement (i.e. within the admissions criteria for that particular school) for acceptance into the school as well as any financial aid packages.  Yet, while a student-athlete might receive a financial aid package, it is not based on athletics, just like in DIII.

[seinfeld]

Murray transferred to Wittenberg because:

A) His brother was already playing for Wittenberg
B) His high school was within miles of campus
C) He was recruited heavily by Witt out of high school

Sutton went to Wooster, in large part, because:

A) His best friend played for Wooster
B) Schmitz was a head coach at Sutton's high school at one time.

Of course, you are missing the most important points of this discussion (pointless, I admit, but at least stick to the original talking points).

Both players you cited TRANSFERRED, they didn't immediately go to Div. III. There is a big difference between going to a scholarship program and then transferring after not being happy with playing time, then skipping the opportunity to go scholarship right out of high school to go Div. III

And of course the biggest point missed is that Murray was at a non-scholarship program, and Sutton was at a Div. II school. What I was talking about, referring to what was posted by fijidoc, was DIV I, not any other level. So if someone can cite a player who passed on a DIV I scholarship right out of high school, and went to an NCAC school, I would love to know who it was and what DIV I program they passed on.

If this did happen, then I'll go away ...

[fijidoc]

In response to question why TE going to Wabash turned down div I scholarship.  I know in fact he did turn down scholarship offers.  Wife(who is a drug rep at my office) of  one of the coaches gave me the information and he did in fact have scholarship offers(she was especially upset because she graduated from Depauw).

Ended up with basically a full ride to Wabash with academic scholarship and academics is the main reason he is going to wabash.

Loved the campus, coaches, and several Castle players he knows are already on the team which was also a big factor.  Rupp really sold him on Wabash is what I heard.

Wanted to go somewhere that he could play all 4 years vs going to div 1 or 2 school and have to redshirt and maybe have a chance to play by the time he is a junior or senior.  Plus the time commitment it takes at Div 1 vs. Div 3 is much less.

[wally_wabash]

My point was that it doesn't matter why a kid transfers from or elects to not enroll at a D-I (or some other level of scholarship football) program.  While it doesn't happen often, it does happen and the student-athlete involved probably has his own good reasons that may or may not make sense to anybody else. 

While the difference between turning down a scholarship to play football and transferring away from one is real, I don't think it's a huge logic leap that we have to make to think that a kid might have the foresight to see that he won't play for 2-3 years in a larger program and elect to go in a direction that offers superior academics and the chance to play sooner.  I don't think it's a jaw-dropper if a kid turns down a scholarship to go to a smaller school, especially if the money isn't far apart (which definitely wouldn't be unheard of at Wabash if a student has good credentials).  It's not as unfathomable as you would make it seem. 

[WallyFS4]

The Ivy Group schools do not give athletic scholarships; they are prohibited from doing so by their league rules/regulations.  The financial aid given is either need based, grants, etc., and student-athletes there have to qualify just like any other students who apply.  It is my understanding, however, that each Ivy school has a certain amount of "slots" or % of admissions that the coaching staffs of any Ivy sport are allotted for acceptance into the general enrollment.  However, those prospective students still have to qualify for a certain level of academic achievement (i.e. within the admissions criteria for that particular school) for acceptance into the school as well as any financial aid packages.  Yet, while a student-athlete might receive a financial aid package, it is not based on athletics, just like in DIII.

Very well explained.

Seinfeld

I know it is hard to believe, but there are student-athletes that put education before athletics.  I know we live in a society that most parents think all of their kids are Div. 1 Bluechip athletes.  There are a few of us that believe getting the best education possible is the 1st goal.  Being a athlete second.  I love athletics more than I probably should, but I have always believed, academics first.  As always.

WABASH ALWAYS FIGHTS!!![/font]

[ScotsFan]

...I don't think it's a huge logic leap that we have to make to think that a kid might have the foresight to see that he won't play for 2-3 years in a larger program and elect to go in a direction that offers superior academics and the chance to play sooner.  I don't think it's a jaw-dropper if a kid turns down a scholarship to go to a smaller school, especially if the money isn't far apart (which definitely wouldn't be unheard of at Wabash if a student has good credentials).  It's not as unfathomable as you would make it seem. 

From the way fijidoc described the situation, I too don't see why there would be much of a question here.  As WallyFS4 said, there are still a few student athletes who value education more than where they play.  With the credentials this kid brings to the table, I highly doubt that the money would be too far off.  And when you add in the value of the education that this young man will be gaining by attending a small school like Wabash, as opposed to being a number at a larger D I insitution, I really don't find it too hard to fathom.  I actually find it a bit refreshing.

[sigma one]

OK, I know stats aren't everything.  NCAC QB stats from 2005:
                    Efficiency Rating         Comp%        TD     INT
Harbaugh(Wab)       166                      69            29      5   (very strong season)
Stokes  (Witt)           147                      63            11      2   (Witt efficiency always high)
Holmes (Witt)           146                      60              5      3   (injured most of year)
Sir Louis (OWU)        134                      58              9      8   (interesting)
Schafer (Woo)          127                      56              8      7   (injury had an effect[?])
Cappetto (Den)        120                      50            18     13  (lowest %age starter)
Savage (All)              118                      60              9      6  
Hymes (OWU)           118                      61              3      3
Stein (Obe)               108                      56            10     12  
Sanchez (Ken)          106                      52              9     10 (I appreciate the loss of
                                                                                           Shoemaker, but he was
                                                                                           adequate, no more)
Henderson (Hir)          98                      51              8     12  
                                                                                                                                      I am not saying that Sanchez is an inferior QB.  He led Kenyon to a successful season.  His running for over 1000 yards is impressive.  It can be successfully argued that he is one of the NCAC's top returning QBs.  I wish him well in what promises to be a very interesting season for the Lords.                      
                       
   

[SALLIEMAE35K]

BB16, thanks for the great posts about the upcoming Little Giant recruiting class. How do you think the incoming freshmen stack up to the the graduating class of '03?

[KC]

Sigma, I'm fine with your opinion of Sanchez, I never said he's the best, just that he might be.  However, your claim that Shoemaker is merely marginal is dead wrong.  Two years ago, he led the conference in receptions (59) and was second in receiving yards (834), while still playing sporadically on defense (had a pick too), and playing for an offense that was unsettled at QB (Sanchez was splitting time as freshman at QB and WR).  With Sanchez beginning to come into his own at QB last year, in just one half of football he had 5 catches for 84 yards and 2 TDs, much better than adequate, and you cannot discount his impact in the run game because he is a very solid blocker.  Since he redshirted, Kenyon has two years left to pair him up with Sanchez and Johnson (who came on very strong to end the season and has become an impact receiver in his own right), plenty of time to prove he is far more than a marginal player.

[Superfoot Wallace]

KC,

As I read Sigmas post I was given the impression that the 'word' adequate was qualifying Sanchez, not Shoemaker.

Little stream of conciousness technique thats highly untechnical, always good for creating unintended slights and backhanded compliments.

Never qualify signal callers that put up a double ought rushing and passing as adequate, thats special.

I have to say a great receiver can make an average quarterback look great.  Look what Jim Brown did for the Browns quarterbacks he played with, and he wasnt even a wideout.  They led the then NFL Passer ratings and were probably the worst in football.  Shoemaker could very well take Sanchez to OPY honors.

Heaven forbid, did I just say that about a Lord.

The Lords could be dangerous with the return of their defensive leader at linebacker and all that offense.  Really wouldnt be surprised to see them knock off one of the big names, or two.

Best Regards,
Pipers Pit

[sigma one]

KC
    My parenthetical comment wasn't meant to say that Shoemaker was marginal.  I see the ambiguity in that comment.  I very much agree that Shoemaker is a force, and that for the coming season his return will help Sanchez--and, in fact, the entire Kenyon offensive scheme.  I was just reinforcing my earlier comment that last year Sanchez was adequate as a passer (Is this another way of saying that the Kenyon passing offense was adequate, and not exceptional?).  His numbers in important categories like completion percentage and efficiency were near the bottom among NCAC QBs.  Please don't mistake my overall judgment:  Sanchez is a fine QB, but at this point based more on his threat to run (and to keep the defense honest by also being a threat to throw).  I'll wait to be wrong, and admit that I was, if/when the Kenyon passing game gets better with Sanchez at the helm.  And I hope it does for the sake of the league--continuing parity and the ability of teams to threaten the three Ws and Allegheny is good for the NCAC, both as a competitive league and to outsiders looking in.

[WallyFS4]

Until Kenyon plays Wabash and Witt.  I will hold judgement.  I think the Kenyon offense might have a different result against these 2 defenses.  I hope Kenyon is on the way up.  I think Kenyon will be the Oberlin of a few years ago.  If there is not water involved, I can't see Kenyon having an impact.  As always.

WABASH ALWAYS FIGHTS!!![/font]

[oldgiant]

Seinfeld - I would like to echo WallyFS4 comments.  I have two sons that played at Wabash with some success, and they had opportunities to play at other levels.  They choose Wabash for the education.  Certainly football was large part of their college lives, but they also found an environment where they weren't "dumb jocks" in the classroom.  Plus, as a family we had 7 great years as a part of the Wabash family.  Football is still a big part our lives - my older son is now the head coach at a D3 school in California, and my younger son is his D line coach and they are working hard to help build that program.  Last November, my sons along with their Mom and I were in attendance for the playoff game with Capital.  There's nothing like being in C'ville for a big game.  For my sons, it was great to see so many of their friends, and just enjoy a good game.  I didn't have to close my eyes very hard to see 54 and 91 back out on the field.  55 quarterback sacks between the 2 of them is impressive at any level of football.  The "W" they wear now is purple, but blood still makes the grass grow greener - even in California.

[Vince McMahon]

Haven't posted in here in about an eon but I came across a cool page the other day and figured there were plenty here that might like to check it out.   It's called the Helmet Project and it's got tons of helmets, both historical and current, including almost every D3 team.  If you're having a slow day at work and want to feel like a total loser, do what I did and spend about an hour or two looking at various helmets from the NFL, CFL, World League, and various college teams.  The site creators also include instructions for sending them other historic logos used on your team's helmets.  Check it out.

http://www.nationalchamps.net/Helmet_Project/

Also, I caught a discussion about guys who passed on D1 scholarships to go D3.  Wasn't there a tackle from Mount Union just a few years back who passed on Ohio State to stay home and go to Mount?  It's possible he lost his scholarship due to academic issues, but he still started as a true frosh when he went to Mount and was an All-American at least twice.  Can't remember his name, unfortunately.