FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

wittman78 · July 22, 2006, 01:03:07 AM

I was thinking about this point the other day because after reading the Witt preview it makes it seem like the Tigers are a very young team. I would like to differ to an extent. 1st off at QB we are young but the brumfield kid at least played some last year and there is also the transfer kid. We have three o lineman returning with all three being seniors. The tailback is of course coming back along with our fullback(who I believe should get the ball a lot more). WRs are a spot we are VERY young at, but at least we have one senior starter returning. D line we lost a lot but have 1 senior returning. LB we have two starters returning(3 if you want to include Philips who started our first three games) and at DB we return a part time starter from 2004 in Brumfield but we have three senior safeties(two all conference players and the other a starter in 2004 which should be interesting to see how they use the 3). Anyhow that team doesn't seem to be too young, any thoughts? And how "young" are other teams in the NCAC this year?

ADL70 · July 22, 2006, 07:29:03 AM

Last word, Wally. If Kenyon played Hiram's schedule last year they would have traded the loss to OWU for Witt; they still finish no worse than 6-1. So 2003 had NO effect on last year. Of course the schedule helps the best of the "rest" to rise up each year. But Kenyon was the only one to rise so high and the only one to beat 2 of the A&Ws.

But as I have previously said, I don't expect them to repeat. I do hope they do though.

herald79 · July 22, 2006, 09:18:40 AM

cwru70, It is good to see that a Spartan can give a Lord a little support! You guys will have to look at Kenyon, as more than a cellar dweller if they repeat last yrs result. I would say they have a chance to do it,and I understand Witt, Wabash and the big 5. I will be impressed, if they can win one more game in 06, it will not be easy! Watch there O, they have Coombs and Shoemaker back healthy, and have a nice 06 frosh class. The major weakness is the D,but if coach Posey can show the improvement from last year, and build on it, watch out for the lords. And the game that I want the most is not Woo, but OWU, they have our number, and if they had a good frosh class watch them!

ADL70 · July 22, 2006, 10:46:18 AM

The proposition that KC gained a scheduling advantage by not playing 'Bash and Witt in '03 didn't seem correct at first glance and scrutiny proved that to be the case.

I wouldn't have given the Lords I saw play CWRU a chance of going 4-3, but then it was only your game 2. Gotta say that it was a great coaching job.

Opening with 4 road games will be a challenge this year.

herald79 · July 22, 2006, 11:01:18 AM

CWRU70, The first four will be rough,but the first two are with teams that are having a rough time of it! Grinnell is Coach Stanley's alma-mater,and he will have the boy's ready for that one. And Claremont-Mudd has had a rough couple of years. Is Mirando healthy, he is from my area and is a tough kid, with some nice skills. His brother will be a frosh at Kent, and could have been great at CWRU . And your coach, from Mentor has always been a winner, and I'm sure he will do good things at Case! I hope the lights are bright on a warm night in September,enjoy the rest of your summer!

ADL70 · July 22, 2006, 11:25:10 AM

I have read about Anthony in recruiting news, but didn't know what the relationship was. Maybe he'll make it to CWRU after a year like his brother.

There are fireworks planned after the game.

wally_wabash · July 22, 2006, 03:20:55 PM

Your scrutiny hasn't proven anything. Unless you've got intimate knowledge of how the NCAC power ranking system works, we're both speculating on how '03 has impacted the current schedule. I don't know exactly when or how long the evaluation periods are. I'm guessing you don't either. We're both just guessing here.

Had Kenyon played Hiram's schedule, it would have made a difference. 6-1 with Witt and/or Wabash on the schedule is different than 6-1 without. You can swap a loss here for a loss there on the two schedules, but the perception of Kenyon would be a little different, particularly if they played a decent game against Witt.

herald79 · July 22, 2006, 05:16:24 PM

NCAC FANS, Why can't we leave last year in the past, you guys are discussing something that has nothing to do with this season. It is simple Kenyon will either get better so they can compete with Wabash and Witt, or when they play again they will get pasted. But give this staff a chance, they took over a program that was horrible! Kenyon is at the moment someplace in the middle of the conf: trying to move up. Both Witt and Wabash have rich football histories going back years, Kenyon has really only fielded a competetive team for one 05season. And not since coach Meyer in the early 90s have they made any noise at all. Face facts Kenyon has been the conf: team most likely to play on your homecomming , let them have a chance they face challenges most conf: schools do not. When you have to make a trip up the hill, to get support each and every year it makes it tough to have a football program! It is easy to field a team, but to have a progam takes all involved working together.

ADL70 · July 22, 2006, 07:10:54 PM

So Wally you are saying that 6-1 with a loss to Witt not OWU is more impressive? I do know that neither "Bash or Hiram were members of NCAC before 2000 so I think I'm pretty secure in assuming that the evaluation period for them did not extend before 2000. And by saying that not playing a full confence schedule in 2003 guaranteed Kenyon the 10 slot aren't you assuming to know how the process worked?

Your debate tactic is to keep changing the premise. That should demonstrate the weakness of your position.

wally_wabash · July 22, 2006, 07:50:05 PM

Quote from: wally_wabash on July 22, 2006, 03:20:55 PM
We're both just guessing here.

If you had read my post then you'd know that I've already said I don't know how the process works. Neither do you. That's the point. You can't attack my position on the notion that my opinion here is based on an assumption....your opinion is equally based on assumption. We can go back and forth on this until September kickoff, but the reality is that we'll never know if Kenyon would have been better or worse than Hiram over the whole evaluation period because Kenyon waived the white flag.

I'm not changing the premise and there's no need to start tossing bombs about "weak" positions. Neither one of us are on firm ground on this.

I can't believe you want to throw rocks over Kenyon....yeesh.

herald79 · July 22, 2006, 08:44:09 PM

Wally-Wabash, Why don't you guys call the league office, and see what kind of answer they give, to your and cwru 7os age old question. The office is located in Cleveland Ohio, they might end your great debate. I am more curious as to how Wabash is able to compete with Ohio schools in Football, since we clearly have better high school talent. I remember back to Pete Metzelars at Wabash, wasn't he a all conf: player in Football and Basketball. The last time your little giants played my Kenyon team, it was only the class of Chris Creighton that kept the score down. The more you argue this point, the more I will begin to dislike Wabash, and I really do like the place.

wally_wabash · July 23, 2006, 01:53:09 AM

Contrary to popular belief, football does exist outside of Ohio and most other states in the union actually have a handful of talented players. It's a shocking revelation, I know. It took me many years and countless hours of therapy to come to grips with that.

Metz was an All-American in football and basketball.

herald79 · July 23, 2006, 10:13:23 AM

Wally-Wabash

I was only speaking from a pure numbers point of veiw, I understand Football players come from everywhere!I just wonder how Wabash gets the kind of kids that it gets in todays society. I enjoyed my all male education, but that was in the 70s. Today kids want the whole college sene, and I am sure there must be a school around that has women attending. I have tried to get kids to go to the Citadel, VMI etc:, with little luck. I just am intrigued by Wabash's ability to get scholar athletes to attend the school , in the Basketball state of Indiana! My coach in college went to the Bills as a position coach, and I had the chance to meet Pete, and because of my love of D3 it was great to meet him!

wally_wabash · July 23, 2006, 11:15:37 AM

Wabash certainly isn't for everybody. I think it would be hard for Wabash to get and maintain an enrollment of outstanding students much larger than what they have now. There is a pretty vast network of alumni who spend a lot of time referring kids to Wabash...the beauty of the system is that alumni understand the types of kids who will embrace Wabash...and maybe just as importantly the types of kids who won't (we all went to school with guys who unfortunately didn't make it). It's about targeting the right kinds of kids for your school, and Wabash does a great job of doing that.

Li'l Giant · July 23, 2006, 11:59:52 AM

Quote from: wally_wabash on July 23, 2006, 11:15:37 AMand maybe just as importantly the types of kids who won't (we all went to school with guys who unfortunately didn't make it)

My freshman class showed up with 240 or so and we graduated 165. A lot of guys just don't like it once they get there. Some of them stay, but most leave. I agree with Wally that it would be difficult to have an enrollment much bigger than the college has.