FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[BashBacker#16]

OK, time to come out of my cave from last weekend's loss to Franklin.

What a huge game 2 for the Little Giants.  How will they respond?  Yes, it is a non-conference game but this is big for the team's psyche heading in to conference play next week.  Will the D step up and stop Millikin's rushing attack?  Will the O be able to carry the D early in the season?

History tells us that Coach Neathery is a whale of a D-coordinator and one would think that CC will leverage last week's loss to ignite the fire.  I am anxious to see how they come out of the gate from the opening kickoff.

[aueagle]

To chime-in with many other poster's...very strange Saturday indeed. OWU drops one  to a Catholic team that has 8 victories in the last 4 years, and now plays a Bethany team that has 4 wins in 4 years (25 pt loss to Muskingum/42-7 win over our Hiram Puppies in '06). wally: who knows what Coach "H" was thinking.  Now the Bishops must gear themselves for NCAC play. The next 2 weeks will speak volumes as to where this program is going (this season & beyond). I don't want to hear anyone bad-mouthing the state of football in the Hoosier state. Is parity developing with the Griz win? Butler appears to be on the upswing. Didn't SPORTS ILLUSTRATED have an Indiana H.S. rated high? GO BISHOPS!!

[BashBacker#16]

AUEagle,

Warren Central (Indianapolis) was rated #4 in the country.  They are ridiculous!  They played the #2 team in the state (5A) last week, cross town rival Ben Davis H.S. - the final score was 76-7.

Their stud running back has committed to Virginia Tech - Darren Evans.  They have a Free Safety named Jeremy Finch (6'2 215) who has committed to Michigan.  Probably too much info but there you have it.

The NCAC needs a good weekend.

[lancer98]

I find it hard to believe that a 2-0 Franklin squad is ranked below a 0-1 Wabash team which they beat only last week.

Come on Pat...get on those voters!!!!  And I thought this poll was the most accurate and the voters actually knew who they were voting for?   

I know its early but there are a few voters not doing their homework or are just plain biased.

Send me a ballot i would be happy to vote if the others can't get it right.   

[Mr. Ypsi]

I find it hard to believe that a 2-0 Franklin squad is ranked below a 0-1 Wabash team which they beat only last week.

Come on Pat...get on those voters!!!!  And I thought this poll was the most accurate and the voters actually knew who they were voting for?   

I know its early but there are a few voters not doing their homework or are just plain biased.

Send me a ballot i would be happy to vote if the others can't get it right.   

I'm not a voter, but I assume that a large number of voters thought that it WAS an upset - that Franklin was better THAT day, but that Wabash is in general the stronger team (i.e., if they played 10 more times, Wabash would win more than 5 of them).  It's not like Franklin SMOKED them.

Although pre-season and early season polls can be fun (and generate fun debates), I don't take ANY polls seriously until AT LEAST week 5.  Prior to that, they are based on reputation, graduation losses, and tea leaves.

[Pat Coleman]

What else do the voters know?

They know it was Franklin's second game but Wabash's first, meaning Franklin had that vaunted first-game-to-second-game improvement plus an extra week of practice under its belt.

They know it was a Franklin home game.

They know it was in overtime (read: tied at the end of regulation).

Remember, the point of a ranking is to say who would beat whom on a neutral field. Since Franklin had all the advantages and needed overtime at home, what's the logical, unbiased conclusion for a game on a neutral field?

[ScotsFan]

Pat,

I wonder how many hours you have had to spend explaining or defending your poll to people?  You should keep a running tally of how many times the poll or the voters get called out by fans here and in d3hoops.  I bet the number would be pretty high.  I just have to smile everytime I see someone question the poll or the voters because I know you will follow with a more than logical  response to set them straight.  

[Pat Coleman]

Many, many, many hours.

This is a perfect example of why 25 voters are better than one.

[lancer98]

Remember, the point of a ranking is to say who would beat whom on a neutral field. Since Franklin had all the advantages and needed overtime at home, what's the logical, unbiased conclusion for a game on a neutral field?

Is this your(Pat) definition of a ranking or is it what is understood when ranking teams accross the board D1--D3..football and basketball included?  Just wondering because I have never heard this before.

If that is the case I honestly have to say I disagree with that 100%.  Home and Away obviously is a factor in games but it is PART of the game.  If Texas had beaten OSU this year in the Texas heat by a field goal and I would have thought OSU would have won in the 'Shoe does that give me the right to still rank the Buckeyes ahead them?  I seriously doubt it.

Pat, I agree with your points 99% of the time and I know you are tired of talking about rankings so this will be my last post on the issue.  But I couldn't disagree more with your response.  I have seen this situation in rankings happen before and this is about the only thing that bothers me.  When a team that was beaten by another is ahead them right NOW and it is clear who is better right NOW it just doesn't seem right to me at least at this part of the year.

[oldguy]

I understand Pat's point, however I'd have to agree with Lancer on this one.  The only true way to decide if a team is better than another team is a head to head battle.  If we start saying that this doesn't matter, than rankings go from being 90% speculation to 100% speculation.  And I'm not real sure why we would go in that direction.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I understand Pat's point, however I'd have to agree with Lancer on this one.  The only true way to decide if a team is better than another team is a head to head battle.  If we start saying that this doesn't matter, than rankings go from being 90% speculation to 100% speculation.  And I'm not real sure why we would go in that direction.

No one ever said that head to head battle doesn't matter, but it is not the ONLY thing that matters.  Upsets DO happen.  The Cubs beat the Dodgers yesterday - would I now be required to rank them ahead?  (Before anyone calls me on it, I admit it's a bad example, since they play so many games and I have no idea what the Cubs-Dodgers season series record is.)

If you go SOLELY by head to head, you are doing 'standings', not 'polling'.

While I am not a voter, I would still put Wabash ahead.  Until a few years ago, the game would have finished as a tie (AT Franklin, in their second game vs. Wabash's first).  Coming weeks will tell more (which is why I said I don't put much stock in pre-season and early-season polls, though they are fun), but I continue to think (at this point) that Wabash is probably the better team.

[Superfoot Wallace]

Might be Franklins second game, but the board might want to respect the fact that the first week to second week improvement came against two teams from this very conference.  Not like Franklin had a warm up game against Hiram or something like that. 

First week to second week improvement?  If the Grizzlies were in the NCAC they would be the favorite to win the conference much less national ranking.  How bout that for some polling versus standing.  Standings?

The Grizz have shown up against the two extremes of the NCAC, the wing t (ground and pound) and the 4 wide oneback (chuck and duck of old ICAC days.)  The whole, extra week of practice doesnt hold weight with that extra week coming against opponents in common and both being supposed elite top tier for their conference.

Still dont get the feeling Franklin wins their own conference.  Maybe the days of the NCAC drawing the MIAA in the first round of the playoffs are over.  Hell theres an IBFC team that looks like it could knock off this conference at the moment. 

Unless Wooster wins this conference undefeated, expect the NCAA pairings will not be so generous when it comes to seedings.

If anything can be said about the HCAC in this whole mess, Im betting the HCAC doesnt draw Mount Union to open their playoff bid this year.  Can the NCAC smell whats cooking?  Its either Alliance or one of the other OACs on the road to open the playoffs.

Maybe on a Sunday against Baldwin Wallace.  That would be poetic.  (see: Macleod Baylor post on the HCAC board inspired by the JCU v Woo JV game played on a Sunday on our very own)  At least in D3 they cant say were working on  a Sunday.

signed,
the IRS (re: scholarships as tax identities)

[wally_wabash]

Before you bury the NCAC entirely based on the Franklin games note a couple of things:

1)  Every team that's worth a damn can stop OWU.  Franklin didn't really stop OWU, but they did beat them, which speaks to how well Leonard's offensive schemes are (which is how he beat Wabash as well). 

2) Don't underplay the frist game vs. second game difference.  It's huge...fact is Wabash was ripe in last week's game against any team that isn't incompetent.  Franklin isn't and they won the game. 

As far as the big picture goes, I think if Wabash runs out they'll host a playoff game.  No more than one though.  We'll find out a lot about Wabash tomorrow afternoon. 

[Pat Coleman]

If that is the case I honestly have to say I disagree with that 100%.  Home and Away obviously is a factor in games but it is PART of the game.  If Texas had beaten OSU this year in the Texas heat by a field goal and I would have thought OSU would have won in the 'Shoe does that give me the right to still rank the Buckeyes ahead them?  I seriously doubt it.

Pat, I agree with your points 99% of the time and I know you are tired of talking about rankings so this will be my last post on the issue.  But I couldn't disagree more with your response.  I have seen this situation in rankings happen before and this is about the only thing that bothers me.  When a team that was beaten by another is ahead them right NOW and it is clear who is better right NOW it just doesn't seem right to me at least at this part of the year.

I understand where you're coming from, but my stance is that it is not such a black and white issue.

What you're talking about is standings, where a win moves a team up regardless of any factors aside from W and L. Rankings are more complex than one black and white data point.

[Li'l Giant]

Good luck and no injuries to everyone today.

Wabash Always Fights!