FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[DPU3619]

But please Wes, if I could give you a wayback machine, wouldn't you take the opportunity to have gone to the NCAC with us? 

In hindsight, absolutely.  Maybe not every DePauw follower would say that, but I'd rather be in that boat in a heartbeat.  +1.

But that's always 20/20.  At that time, I'm not sure many of us could predict that we'd be where we are.  Wabash would be a top 10 team, Wittenberg would be good for not much more than 8-2, and Trinity and Millsaps would have turned into unbeatables, and the SCAC would have added a D1 team.  Still, where Depauw is has to be better than the ICAC. 

[Li'l Giant]

But that's always 20/20.  At that time, I'm not sure many of us could predict that we'd be where we are.  Wabash would be a top 10 team, Wittenberg would be good for not much more than 8-2, and Trinity and Millsaps would have turned into unbeatables, and the SCAC would have added a D1 team.  Still, where Depauw is has to be better than the ICAC. 

The Millsaps part yes. The Trinity part is not so much of a surprise. But then again, I grew up 'round these parts and have friends/family that went to TU so maybe I'm biased.

No knock here, but it is surprising that Depauw hasn't gotten over the hump yet. That obviously can't last forever.

On one hand, I totally recognize the need for both DPU and Wabash to leave the ICAC. But I really miss having DPU in conference, too. Not just for football either. It would be nice to get 2 meetings a year in hoops and baseball, though, in baseball, maybe we're better off just playing once

[bigwheels77]

so, moving backward to the whole meaning of the monon game.  I really think Wabash has moved past that game being the end all. I was in uniform in 2002, and after we dismantled DPU that year we carried the bell of the stand and took it to the other end of the field. We met with families, then went to the locker room and tore the place up because we just finished an undefeated season and were headed to the playoffs. Probably 30 minutes after we left the field some alumni carried the bell into the locker room and we celebrated some more. The point of this story is that the team left the bell on the field... and the alumni carried it to the locker room. Does that speak volumes to anyone else?

[fijidoc]

When you are talking about which program has had the  most success over the past 10 years or which is the best program you have to completely throw the bell game out  of the discussion.

I mean the fact that they are 5-5 over those ten years is expected.  For over 100 years it is almost exactly even.  It is very rare that one team dominates a decade and when they do it  must even out because after over 100 years the battle is almost even.

That is what makes the Bell game so special is that the best team often doesn't win.  There has been many  years that the team that was far inferior won the game because that is their Superbowl.

Yes, I am a Wabash grad, played football for 4  years and went 3-0-1 in those games.  So it is natural for me to say that Wabash has been more successful but I really don't think it can be debated.  Conference difference aside Wabash has a far superior record, Multiple conference championships, multiple playoff appearances and two final eight trips.  Depauw has ZERO.  You can say it is the conference is superior if you want but when Wabash  got into the playoffs they won games.  If they were one and done then you could argue that it was a weak conference that got them in.  But with two trips to final eight, I  don't think they beat cup cakes to get there.  Plus the year they  didn't get to the final eight they lost to a darn good Capital team which they  should have beat(that is a different discussion).  What we have  learned is that we  are not to the level of the heavyweights yet like UWW and  Mount Union but we have proven that we deserve to play on the field with them. 

Until Depauw can get to that point they can't be considered to be on equal playing field  with Wabash with regards to which program is most successful but if the Bell game proves  one thing it proves that on any given day someone can step up and win a game they probably should not win and that goes both ways.

This is nothing against Depauw and I actually hope that Depauw joins the NCAC in the future.

[DPU3619]

I mean the fact that they are 5-5 over those ten years is expected.  For over 100 years it is almost exactly even.  It is very rare that one team dominates a decade and when they do it  must even out because after over 100 years the battle is almost even.

That is what makes the Bell game so special is that the best team often doesn't win.  There has been many  years that the team that was far inferior won the game because that is their Superbowl.

I do see your point.  But you can't just throw it out like it doesn't count.  You cannot say that you cannot compare the two teams based on head-to-head results.  That's the most elementary form of comparison. Measure there head-to-head result in some given sample size.  Say the last decade.  5-5.  Or the last 7.  Wabash is 5-2.  Or the last 4.  2-2. 

You're better than Denison, right?  Why?  Because you punish them for 60 minutes every single season.  Same goes with every other team in your conference.  If you're going to tell me that Wabash is a dominant team in Division III (which your perfectly allowed to do after this past season), there MUST be some explanation for why DePauw is the only team on their schedule that they can't beat into oblivion other than "Golly gee gracious that rivalry sure is an cockamamey thing, ain't it?"  I do think wally hit it on the head when he said that DPU just isn't that far behind.  Not on the same level, obviously, but close.

[wally_wabash]

Wes, you and I both know that the Bell game is a different animal.  I'm a scientist..it's how I make my living.  I'd love for there to be a scientific explanation for why Wabash isn't hammering DePauw on an annual basis like they maybe should have over the last handful of years, but there just isn't.  Strange things happen during that game...kids play different during the game, seniors in particular play different when they are playing their final game.  There's no rhyme or reason to Bell game results.  The series is close and the games, more often than not, are also close regardless of what anything on paper might suggest leading up to the game. 

[DPU3619]

That ain't the tune you were singing a couple of years ago. 

[DPU3619]

Perhaps I should elaborate, since I fear my point was missed due to extreme laziness on my part. 

Two years ago, when Wabash got done beating DePauw's brains in for the fourth time in fifth years (sigh), you know what I was told?  Wabash is the far superior program.  The reason I was given for that was really darned simple.  They'd just finished whipping 'em all over west central Indiana for 4 quarters.  Again.  Plain and simple.  Wabash beat you again.  Wabash is better.  The better team is winning the football games.  The more dominant team is kicking you in the teeth and you're getting steamrolled.  You couldn't stop Knott to Short (2002 highlight reel.. burned on the inside of my eyelids forever), and now you can't stop Harbaugh to Clifton.  You're being outplayed head-to-head.  4 out 5 times.  We're stupendous and you've got another new coach.

I certainly couldn't disagree with it, could I?  I had absolutely no basis to do so.  Seems pretty simple, right?  Not too dissimilar from what I said three posts ago.  You knock somebody on their butt over and over, you're darn tootin' the better football team.

So what's the deal, then?  Now that suddenly isn't the case?  The recent outcomes have no significant relevance now?  Sure, the Bell game is different.  Of course it is.  You couldn't script half this stuff.  But did no strange occurances happen between 2001-2005 that allowed you make such a claim?  Do these unexplainable happenings now show their face at every turn thus making any potential comparison between the two schools an incomplete one?  Can't go both ways, can it?  Can't tell me that Wabash was better then because they beat DePauw and now that it's even it doesn't count.  Does not compute. 

If you want to point to all that stuff you posted about the overall records and the conference titles and blah blah blah, that's fine.  I've got zero ways to fight you on it.  That's one more elite eight trip than the other guys.  That's more playoff games.  However, when you said then that Wabash was better and pointed directly to an arbitrary sampling of Bell results, and then I say now that it's not like that because some new arbitrary sample is even, you don't get to say "nuh-uh".

Just looking for a little clarity is all.  Don't want anybody throwing the baby out with the bathwater, here.

[D3_DPUFan]

Perhaps I should elaborate, since I fear my point was missed due to extreme laziness on my part. 

Two years ago, when Wabash got done beating DePauw's brains in for the fourth time in fifth years (sigh), you know what I was told?  Wabash is the far superior program.  The reason I was given for that was really darned simple.  They'd just finished whipping 'em all over west central Indiana for 4 quarters.  Again.  Plain and simple.  Wabash beat you again.  Wabash is better.  The better team is winning the football games.  The more dominant team is kicking you in the teeth and you're getting steamrolled.  You couldn't stop Knott to Short (2002 highlight reel.. burned on the inside of my eyelids forever), and now you can't stop Harbaugh to Clifton.  You're being outplayed head-to-head.  4 out 5 times.  We're stupendous and you've got another new coach.

I certainly couldn't disagree with it, could I?  I had absolutely no basis to do so.  Seems pretty simple, right?  Not too dissimilar from what I said three posts ago.  You knock somebody on their butt over and over, you're darn tootin' the better football team.

So what's the deal, then?  Now that suddenly isn't the case?  The recent outcomes have no significant relevance now?  Sure, the Bell game is different.  Of course it is.  You couldn't script half this stuff.  But did no strange occurances happen between 2001-2005 that allowed you make such a claim?  Do these unexplainable happenings now show their face at every turn thus making any potential comparison between the two schools an incomplete one?  Can't go both ways, can it?  Can't tell me that Wabash was better then because they beat DePauw and now that it's even it doesn't count.  Does not compute. 

If you want to point to all that stuff you posted about the overall records and the conference titles and blah blah blah, that's fine.  I've got zero ways to fight you on it.  That's one more elite eight trip than the other guys.  That's more playoff games.  However, when you said then that Wabash was better and pointed directly to an arbitrary sampling of Bell results, and then I say now that it's not like that because some new arbitrary sample is even, you don't get to say "nuh-uh".

Just looking for a little clarity is all.  Don't want anybody throwing the baby out with the bathwater, here.

BINGO!!!!!!!!!!

[D3_DPUFan]

Tutsie's gone from Warren football?

Didn't know.

MacLeod---
Wanted to let you know I heard yesterday that Tutsie made the first cut of candidates for the head job at Canton McKinley---talk about going from the frying pan into the fire!
 

[frank uible]

Bring back Marion Motley!

[Duster72]

I think most people would agree that Walker and the DPU staff CLEARLY outcoached CC in this year's game, so feel free to bring that up whenever you want.  CC left a while back, you might have heard that.

I don't follow DPU like I follow Wabash, but I understand you guys had some injury issues this season and seemed to peak at the right time, game #10 on your schedule.  Based on how you played in that game and based on the lack of parity in the D3 football tournament, I would guess that DPU could have made it to the elite 8 just as easily as Wabash did.  The team we saw on the field in Greencastle was very good.  Of course, you still needed what I would consider a miraculous field goal from your back up place kicker to win, but I digress.

This whole argument started when it was stated that Wabash would be a middle of the pack team in the SCAC.  I can't agree with that.  While I would guess that our record might not have been quite so glowing if we were in the SCAC, I think you guys are underestimating Witt, Gheny, OWU, and Wooster.  They definitely bring their A-game every year, and Wabash gets their best shot.  It's a lot harder to be the clear #1 team and get teams that will throw the kitchen sink at you every week than it is to be the #3 team and play with reckless abandon and nothing to lose.  Ask Jeff Fisher down in Tennessee - he seems to have mastered that concept.

Anyway, DPU clearly has made up a lot of the ground that they lost with the revolving coaching door a few years back.  Congrats.  You have a decent team.  Now it's time for you to win your conference and qualify for the playoffs so you can get some national respect.  When that happens the Monon Bell game will be taken to the next level.

[wabndy]

Now it's time for you to win your conference and qualify for the playoffs so you can get some national respect.  When that happens the Monon Bell game will be taken to the next level.

Again I ask.  Were Wabash and DePauw to meet a second time in the playoffs* - could the bell change hands?  Would we skip a number on the "#th Monon Bell Classic?"  Given that there were a number of years before 1932 that no game was played, and a few years that multiple games were played, it would seem to me that the # would roll over.  As for the bell.  It would just stay in C'ville.

*Wes, D3DPU - I'd kill to hear you guys do a Jim Mora impersonation. 

[wally_wabash]

Great photo here:



I'm sure we could find some space for another one, Coach.   

[Li'l Giant]

Of course, he's a Mount Union guy. He's probably thinking "That's it? We're gonna need a bigger case".