FB: North Coast Athletic Conference

[BashBacker#16]

Saturday is Senior Day for Wabash...group of 25 seniors...in to game 8 their final season:

37-5 record (*includes playoffs)
25-1 NCAC record
2 NCAA playoff appearances
3 NCAC championships (*tie with Witt 2006) - 3 rings

...a legit shot to surpass 40 career wins!!

DUDE!!!

(Good catch Short - can you tell I wasn't a math major  )

[short]

Saturday is Senior Day for Wabash...group of 25 seniors...in to game 8 their final season:

37-4 record (*includes playoffs)
24-1 NCAC record
2 NCAA playoff appearances
3 NCAC championships (*tie with Witt 2006) - 3 rings

...a legit shot to surpass 40 career wins!!

DUDE!!!

Wabash's record is...
37-5
25-1 NCAC

I like UW-W as much as the next guy, but the coach who voted UW-W #1 this week probably doesn't need to be voting anymore.   

my guess is muc's LK voted for UW-WW.

[wally_wabash]

I like UW-W as much as the next guy, but the coach who voted UW-W #1 this week probably doesn't need to be voting anymore.   

my guess in muc's LK voted for UW-WW.

That may very well be the case.  I get not voting for your own team.  There's nothing wrong with that.  But you just can't vote a team #1 that just lost to an unranked D-III team.  Listen, I have a ton of respect for LK (who wouldn't??), but that's just a bad vote. 

[short]

Maybe its a bad vote but UWWW was not only the last team to beat MUC, but they are the only team to play within 24 pts of them in the last 22 games.  UWWW lost to its rival in UWSP that is now 6-1.  NCC played a close game with unranked Carthage and needed a TD with less than 2mins to go in the game to win it.  Wabash needed a long FG with 4 sec left in the game to beat an unranked Wittenburg team that is down 3 ALL-ncac players do to injury from 2007 (QB, TE, DL) plus their starting Kicker, TB and others.   Muhlenberg hung on to win at Johns Hopkins earlier in the season and has yet to play a ranked team. So why not UWWW, maybe he thinks they are the 2nd best or even the best team out there.  After all, its not like UWW was  undefeated last season when they beat MUC.

[wally_wabash]

Last 22 games...last season...last is what is wrong is with that vote if in fact that is the logic.  You can't factor in what happened in 2007 or 2006 or 2005 when you're ranking teams in 2008.  Maybe in a preseason polling situation some of what happened before counts, but most certainly not 8 weeks into 2008.  The players are different, some coaches are different, etc. etc.  If he who voted UWW #1 this week is so put off by every other team in D-III then it's time to bite the bullett and vote what everybody else in Division III knows which is that Mount Union, is the top dog.  It's ok to admit it...nobody is going to think he's a homer or tooting his own horn.  Sometimes when you have the best team, it's 100% ok to say so. 

[short]

wally_wabash
"NCAC Games:
Wabash (-16.5) @ Witt - It's finally here.  Let's be honest...the playoffs are on the line this week and we all knew that this game in the NCAC was going to be exactly that well before this season kicked off.  Unfortuantely, Wittenberg comes into the game minus their offensive centerpiece and all kinds of beat up at many other important positions.  If Wabash is worthy of a top-5 type of ranking, they should handle a beat up Wittenberg team fairly easily.  I think Wabash is legitimately that good...the LGs cover and move one step away from sealing up the AQ. "

Have you changed your mind?

Last 22 games...last season...last is what is wrong is with that vote if in fact that is the logic.  You can't factor in what happened in 2007 or 2006 or 2005 when you're ranking teams in 2008.  Maybe in a preseason polling situation some of what happened before counts, but most certainly not 8 weeks into 2008.  The players are different, some coaches are different, etc. etc.  If he who voted UWW #1 this week is so put off by every other team in D-III then it's time to bite the bullett and vote what everybody else in Division III knows which is that Mount Union, is the top dog.  It's ok to admit it...nobody is going to think he's a homer or tooting his own horn.  Sometimes when you have the best team, it's 100% ok to say so. 

IMHO, he Can't say it!  He can't even think it or he will lose his edge.  The fans, media, and maybe even his players can say it and think it but LK CAN NOT!

[usee]

I like UW-W as much as the next guy, but the coach who voted UW-W #1 this week probably doesn't need to be voting anymore.   

my guess in muc's LK voted for UW-WW.

That may very well be the case.  I get not voting for your own team.  There's nothing wrong with that.  But you just can't vote a team #1 that just lost to an unranked D-III team.  Listen, I have a ton of respect for LK (who wouldn't??), but that's just a bad vote. 

Wally,

If you are the head coach of the #1 team and you can't vote for yourself, who would you give your vote to as #1? I understand your logic (and agree) about LK and UWW, but who should he vote for? I am certain LK saw the UWW tapes last year vs North Central and Wabash. And while it is most obviously NOT last year do you really think he is believes NCC and Wabash have closed the gap that much? do you? I am hopeful but I certainly have my questions.

I am not saying its right but this thing seems to work a little bit like real estate....your home gets valued based on an appraisal of comparable homes that sold in the past. How stupid has that methodology been? And every home owner thinks their home is worth more than what every one else thinks. I know UWW has a loss but I would bet most voters think half the WIAC would beat every team in the North not named Mt Union. And until we prove them wrong (like UWW did) that thinking isn't going to change.

[Li'l Giant]

I don't know why a coach voting his own team #1 would be such a big deal. The coaches poll in I-A is not unanimous at this moment, but if it were (as it has in the past), would anyone be using that to disparage Mack Brown? If one of Penn State's #1 votes is Paterno, is anyone really going to make a deal out of it? I don't see why it would be a big deal if Coach Kehres were to vote MUC #1.

And for all we know, that lone voter might very well believe that the UW-W loss to UW-SP doesn't mean they're not the best team in the country.

[short]

In DI these polls matter because of the BCS so it is different.

[usee]

I don't know the rules. I was assuming you can't vote for your own team. That's the way the voting among CCIW coaches for coaches poll, all conference, etc works. I am pretty sure that's the way the OAC voting works and so LK may be following the spirit of the rules?? I have no idea.

[Li'l Giant]

That cuts both ways. A coach voting for his own team has a higher benefit than it does in the D-III poll. Thus, the scrutiny should be higher. But it isn't.

[Pat Coleman]

I don't know the rules. I was assuming you can't vote for your own team. That's the way the voting among CCIW coaches for coaches poll, all conference, etc works. I am pretty sure that's the way the OAC voting works and so LK may be following the spirit of the rules?? I have no idea.

It's not an AFCA rule but it does appear for many years running that it is Larry Kehres' personal rule to not vote Mount Union No. 1 until they have Walnut and Bronze in their hands.

I wouldn't have voted UWW No. 1 but honestly, you could make a case for many teams and nobody stands out.

[short]

If I were LK (good thing for MUC fans and players Im not) I might have voted for the team sitting at #18 #1.  After all their resume THIS SEASON is better than the teams sitting at #2, #3, and #4.

[wally_wabash]

wally_wabash
"NCAC Games:
Wabash (-16.5) @ Witt - It's finally here.  Let's be honest...the playoffs are on the line this week and we all knew that this game in the NCAC was going to be exactly that well before this season kicked off.  Unfortuantely, Wittenberg comes into the game minus their offensive centerpiece and all kinds of beat up at many other important positions.  If Wabash is worthy of a top-5 type of ranking, they should handle a beat up Wittenberg team fairly easily.  I think Wabash is legitimately that good...the LGs cover and move one step away from sealing up the AQ. "

Have you changed your mind?

You'll notice that after the 13-10 Witt game Wabash was not in the top 5.  I'm sure Wabash's move back into the top 5 this week has more to do with the three teams in front of them losing than it does with the voters thinking Wabash suddenly got a lot better.  I think Wabash is very good.  Probably top 5 right now by default...but they'll have a chance to legitimize that ranking starting on Nov. 22. 

And one last thought on the LK/AFCA poll business.  I can totally respect that he doesn't want to vote for his team to be #1.  But right now, through 8 weeks of play, Mount Union is head and shoulders clear of everybody else in D-III and deserves every #1 vote in every D-III poll on the planet.  MUC for #1 in week 8 of the 2008 D-III football season is not a debatable issue.  If LK won't separate his duties as a coach from his duties as a voter, then simply recuse yourself and not vote.  There's no shame in that.  There are 200 or so other coaches in Division III that I'm sure would embrace the opportunity to contribute. 

[Desertraider]

If I were LK (good thing for MUC fans and players Im not) I might have voted for the team sitting at #18 #1.  After all their resume THIS SEASON is better than the teams sitting at #2, #3, and #4.

As far as I know LK has never voted MUC #1 in these polls (until holding Walnut and Bronze). I do not think there is a rule stating he can't - he just doesn't. Maybe Ric or seventiesraider would know more about it. LK also does not nominate players for individual awards. I know he can - but prefers the team route instead.