FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Cowman]

Two side notes, was anybody as surprised as I was to see Kirk Cousins was offered a scholarship to play QB at MSU, I mean I know they're dissapointed about losing Nichol but is Cousins really a Big Ten talent. Would love to hear more on that from somebody who knows more about him.

Ask someone from Zeeland West ..... 55 - 21
To me, it seems like Cousins and Josh Rooks  (Northwestern) would have had wonderful careers at a place lke Hope instead of sitting the bench or getting their heads kicked in while in the Big Ten. 

[WLCALUM83]

Two side notes, was anybody as surprised as I was to see Kirk Cousins was offered a scholarship to play QB at MSU, I mean I know they're dissapointed about losing Nichol but is Cousins really a Big Ten talent. Would love to hear more on that from somebody who knows more about him.

Ask someone from Zeeland West ..... 55 - 21
To me, it seems like Cousins and Josh Rooks  (Northwestern) would have had wonderful careers at a place lke Hope instead of sitting the bench or getting their heads kicked in while in the Big Ten. 

It might not be so much that particular player alone as Michigan State appears to be re-loading across the board (what with getting rid of Coach Smith, and QB Stanton graduating and all). Just my .02.

[D306]

Long time since I posted.

What does everyone think of a D3 player, transfering to D1.
Especially a team like MSU whom was mentioned above.
MSU is having a whole sale change of Coachs and hopefully attitude.
I would think some solid Sophomore or Junior could catch some eyes in East Lansing.
Especially someone whom may have been hurt or has grown alot after HS and was overlooked or thought of as injuried during their Recruitment ages of 17 and 18.

I have seen several of the MSU Freshman, and Sophomores play, and some of the D3 players in the MIAA could compete, if not outproduce.
I know many of the decsions are based not only on skills but opportunities and or recognition. It is the number of kids of quality skill that the D1 schools have that makes to difference.

It is a big jump in time committment for a D3 player with the travel, and sheer speed of the league. I think that is the biggest change is the speed and size that the skill players have. The lineman are huge and fast, that you cannot coach or train yourself to be fast, you either are fast or you are not.

Tough call for the SB I think Indy wins, but I like Rex he has been taking a lot of S#%* and would love to see him pull it out.

[ACRULZ]

D306:
I couldn't agree with you more.  Indeed, the remaining MIAA stadiums i.e. Albion and Kazoo (with the exception being Hope's Holland Munincipal Stadium and WLC and Tri-State since they are all newer) have a that great old traditional feeling and basically being on the original fields.  Keeping that "atmosphere" is a good aspect and important (at least it is to me! ) and I think Olivet accomplished this by keeping their stadium renovation on their original field of over 100 years.  That being said, we can't really put Adrian's beautiful new stadium or the others in that category (except perhaps Alma since theirs remained on part of their old 1929 field, albeit switching positions a bit with the then baseball field), but these new ones are in a somewhat different light.  Holland Munincipal has a great "semi-bowl-like" setting and is a more modern style; Adrian's while very modern is similar, yet what makes the latter's attractive is it's return to an "on campus" stadium.   I think that was very important for the Adrian students although the college certainly shared a very good relationship with the high school and its community over the recent decades when at Maple Stadium (which is a neat stadium itself).  Overall, if Hope, Kazoo and Tri-State put in turf, it will make those fields/stadiums even more attractive.

I also think you hit on an additional important point.  Since many of the high schools have now put in wonderful, expensive modern stadiums with state-of-the art facilities, and the turfs, indeed the small colleges have to upgrade their stadiums to be able to attract student-athletes for football (and the other sports that use their stadiums).  It doesn't look good to a propective recruit to come to a college, even if it is a small college, when their own high school stadium is light years ahead of the college's.  That is one aspect (although among other aspects) that was a hinderance to Olivet for a long time.  Paticularly, in this era, when it is becoming more difficult to recruit due to costs and competition from the DII schools in the state, this is one area the small schools i.e. MIAA schools need to keep up on.  Zeeland's newest and 2nd h.s. Zeeland West built a beautiful facilitity, bricked stadium, brick and iron fencing around the field giving it that "old style feeling" and, of course, the new turf.  Kind of makes Holland Munincipal feel even more behind the times perhaps, although obviously not entirely.

Anyway, as we've discussed, it will be interesting to see what happens, although again, I think it might be another year or so at least before considerations for this become "real"??!!!  On the other hand, maybe the process will start moving faster.  Thanks for your input and opinions.   

Adrian's new stadium is definitely one of the better in D III but you are right, it did sacrifice some of the tradition of playing at Maple Stadium.  I played at The Mape myself, one part of the tradition I will not miss is the Yellow Bus ride to the stadium and meeting in the elementary school at halftime.  On the whole I think it is a good thing that so many schools are upgrading their facilities.  As a conference I think we need this to compete with other leagues that have great complexes.  Albion's is not bad and Hope's is right there also with the exception of being a bit antiquated, in my opinion.  Hope College, the dressing in the swimming pool locker rooms has to go, $20 million+ for a basketball arena but the football facilities???  Anyway it would be nice if all fields had turf at the very least, which is still an expensive project.  But you are right hopefully this process will start moving faster.

[D306]

Anybody do any looking into the depth charts around the MIAA?
Whom looks strong next year?
I have not yet, but will star checking the returning talent, and possibly any transfers out of the MIAA.
Moneys tight so I expect several MIAA kids are heading to Public Universities this winter and Fall semesters.

RE: Superbowl my heart says DA' Bears, my head says the Colts.
I hope it is at least a game, so many SB are flat out blowouts.

27-24 DA Bears since I have to go with my Heart and there is no money here to lose.

[WLCALUM83]

Seeing as us Wisconsin natives are due to go into a deep freeze weather-wise, thought I'd pass this along:

(Pre-historic comic strip B. C.)

1st slide:  B. C:  "Hello, Operator??"

                Operator:  Yes??

                B. C. "Could you give me the area code for the North Pole?"

2nd slide:  Operator:  "One moment, please, while I look that up."

3rd (and last) slide:  Operator:  "It's n-n-n-nine  f-f-f-five  t-t-t-two."

   Ba dumm bumm!

[ACRULZ]

I hear that Adrian has lost out on the Schneider kid from Addison.  I guess he is going to Ferris State for the pharmacy program.  Also I hear they may be landing the Dameron kid from Ann Arbor Pioneer.

[bulldogalum]

I was on Tri State's website today looking for some information on some of their basketball players, and stumbled upon some of their campus improvement plans, including their new domed football facility.  It looks like it's going to be a pretty nice setup, although there are no sketches of the inside of the building.  That being said, I'm still not convinced an indoor facility is necessary, ideal, or even desirable, and if it were my school, I'd have a lot of questions that would need to be answered.  Regardless of my personal reservations, it is good to see Tri State upgrade its facilities--the old stadium really lacked character.

[formerd3db]

bulldogalum:

I actually heard about that new facility when we were at Tri-State for the Hope football game.  I talked with several current athletes there who related the plans to me.  While this will certainly be a "new innovation" for the league, an indoor facility is not a bad idea.  Obviously, there are pros/cons to this.  First, Northern Michigan has had one for years (as has Syracuse) and definitley in the bad weather extremes (rain, snow, cold), this will be an advantage.  The field at the Hope game there this year was a mess regarding the turf, sidelines etc.  In this era, the new synthetic turfs are here to stay and TSU will obviously be upgrading and joining the likes of Adrian, Olivet and Hope.  Admittedly, the traditionalists of football natural fields will not care for this, however, the advantages of synthetic turf for a smaller school such as Tri-State, Alma, Adrian, Olivet, etc. are numrous as many of us have discussed this here (and others on the other boards) many times in the past.  IMO, Hope needs to advance to that as well for their stadium (natural turf has always been a problem there), although that is slightly more of a challenge since the stadium is under the city's administration.  But even the new Zeeland West has a nicer field and stadium that Hope/Holland does now in some of those aspects.  (Albion's neat Sprankle-Sprandel Stadium with its Morley Fraser Field would be greatly enhanced and be "awesome" if synthetic turf was put in).

Getting back to Tri-State, they will also be using this for lacrosse, which like at Adrian, will be a full varisty sport there for both men and women next year.  Although outdoor lacrosse, like football is a very exciting atmosphere, the indoor lacrosse game is great as well.  A school like Tri-State (actually for that matter all the MIAA and even the smallest DIII schools like Eureka, etc.) have to "keep up with the Joneses (sp? )" if they want to continue to attract good student-athletes and thereby also support and further solidify and build-up the school (Adrian is doing that in their own way as you well know).  It is a competitive world out there for the small schools in regards to attracting and retaining students, especially with the high cost of a small private four year liberal arts college or university.  They have to do it, or fall behind.

Overall, I like the concept of the domed stadium and I think it will be good for Tri-State.  On the other hand, I will admit, I'm glad some of the schools will be keeping their traditional outdoor stadiums albeit with new synthetic turf.  Now, if we could only get Kazoo to put the latter in at Angell Stadium/Field! .
What do some of your other colleagues think about this Tri-State plan?

BTW, I was also glad to see Tri-State preserving their remaining historic college structures.  You and I talked about that re: Adrian (and of course, Hope, Olivet and Albion).

[bulldogalum]

Formerd3db:

Yeah, I sort of agree with the indoor facility from a weather perspective, although I'd be willing to bet that Marquette and Syracuse get significantly higher snowfall each year, with more potential for early season storms, than does Angola.  Still, it'll be nice to know that games there in the end of October will be every bit as nice as games in September. 

It's a shame to see all the demise of the natural field surface--I always enjoy watching a mud bowl type game--but this field turf is so realistic, and such a better and more consistent surface, that it's much more practical for schools to spend a big chunk of money once rather than small chunks of money each year.

I agree that field turf at Albion would do a lot to help the allure of that facility, but of course, I wouldn't want to give Albion any ideas on how to steal more of Hope's and Adrian's recruits, now would I?   They have a fantastic facility, it's only a shame that whenever I walked onto the field last season, I sunk down at least 4 or 5 inches in the mud.  That's the problem with building a stadium so close to the river, I guess.

As for Lacrosse, Adrian and Tri State will have full varsity programs.  Hope has a strong club program going, I would have to imagine that the rest of the league can't be far behind.  This has the looks of a budding league sport.

[formerd3db]

bulldogalum:

Yes, that's right - we wouldn't want Adrian or Hope's advantages to be lessened!

Although this is the fb board, I will just mention that Calvin has perhaps the best lacrosse team in the MIAA right now (they are also club status).  They went to the CCLA regional tournatment last year (winner of the MIAA usually skips the MIAA season ending tournament to go to the CCLA regional) and went on to the national collegiate club lacrosse national championships administrated by the U.S. Lacrosse Association last year in Dallas (U of Mich and MSU are also in the CCLA with the MIAA teams although in Section A).

Albion has a good lax team as does Alma, however, right now I would say that for this season Calvin, Hope and Adrian are the initial pre-season teams to beat.  Hope scrimmaged Calvin last week and the latter is picking up right where they left off.  I believe that Tri-State is not fielding a team until next spring in 2008, but it will be varsity along with Adrian.  Hopefully, Olivet and Kazoo will follow and that all the MIAA teams will be elevated to "varisity status".  Right now, the only difference is that the teams only receive minimal amount of financial assistance from their respective colleges while having to raise the remainder of funding themselves and counting on donations as well.  The teams, however, are still under the auspices of the college.  Both U of Mich and MSU are run the same way, although it is my understanding that both are lobbying hard for eleveation to varisity status (MSU used to be up until the early '90's - title IX had much to do with it).  Some of the MIAA schools have women's teams as well and personally, I see both men's and women's lax as becoming varisty sports in the next 2-3 years - and hopefully sooner).

One last aspect: the NCAA Lax Championships all divisions DI, DII and DIII were all held at the NFL's Eagles stadium in Philadelphia last Memorial Weekend.  The attendance for the DIII game was >25,000 and 51,000 for the DI game.  Likewise, the collegiate club U.S. Lax championships had very good crowds down in Dallas last spring it is my understanding.  So we'll see what goes for this year.  Hope's non-conference games are vs. DII schools (and we may have a game lined up against a DI and certainly for next year).  Anyway, sorry for the lax "pitch" here on the fb board.  I'll keep these on the lax board in the future.  Let's have some of you MIAA posters contribute over there at your convenience - check DIII independents/club programs category.  Thanks. 

[Superfoot Wallace]

formerd3db,

Did you get a chance to see Olivet play last season?  See they have returning offensive playmakers at receiver, tight end and running back; not to mention two offensive linemen that garnered some all MIAA accolades.

Could save the defensive discussion for later, am most interested in the freshman, soon to be sophomore running back, Clasgens.  Not phenomenal numbers, but pretty decent yards per rush.  An apparent double wing set up of sorts looking at the numbers of the next two leading rushers making for nearly 1200 yards rushing amongst the top three with a near even split after the leader, though numbers do not always tell the whole story.

Do we have any youtube on these guys? 

Have not looked for the stats on returning quarterbacks, but assuming Livedotti has returned to his ways of a spread. Expecting the quarterback must be more than capable to make it click.  The fact the tight end garnered such attention indicates an ability to formation people.

Felt Alma had the distinct disadvantage of playing at Witt, could be a dangerous and unassuming MIAA run for the Tigers considering Olivet beat Alma last year.  Guess no win is discounted, but Alma gets the homefield and Olivet might be a more capable road team.

Always nice to get a win over a team with a Gagliardi, but things always seem to work in cycles, and maybe the MIAA dropped back and burned the fields to come back even stronger with regards to gleaning talent.  Felt the same was true for the NCAC and saw some perennial bottom dwellers rise due not only to gleaning higher standards at the top, but enhanced ability on their part as recruits were able to envision winning against the big boys.   The leagues were down last year and remember the MIAA being torn a new one by the press, but an individual honor of such esteem as the Gagliardi for a conference team surely will enhance the conference recruiting and team efforts. Russian battle tactic or Redwood ecology, one or the other.

In Pigskin,
Billy Jack Haynes the Wildman from Oregon

[formerd3db]

MacLeod:

Yes, I did see Olivet against us (Hope) last year.  They gave us a tough game and could almost have won it.  However, Hope was on a roll then with improved play, intensity and attitude.  Anyway, I agree with you in that I think Olivet will be a dangerous team this fall and IMO, just might be among the top contenders for the title, with some of the returners as you mentioned.  They were sort of a "Jeckle and Hyde" team this past season.

The NCAC and MIAA "bottom feeders" as somewhat similar I think in that they have started a trend of improvement and while they will never be the yearly "powers" in the league that the others have been, it is nice to see them improving.  Remember Olivet was and 8-2 team just a couple of years ago and came within a game of the title and NCAA bid.  Lividotti in this second time around as HC appears to have maintained a solid base from his co-year administration with Siegler.  Only time will tell and I think this season for them will be a key one with regard to the program direction.

As far as the remainder of the MIAA, we've all had the discussion in the past about what the teams need to do to attain the "next level" i.e. advancing in the NCAA playoffs.  The problems with competing in recruiting with all the DII schools, of course, has played a part in this in recent years, yet with the student-athletes these schools do get, there is no reason why they can't progress.  Again, as I've said before, I believe the key is playing tougher non-conference opponents on a regular basis, even if it means losing some games.  Heck, way back in my day, we did that and I truly believe it helped, even though the playoffs were not an option during some of those years.  Anyway, thanks for your assesment and input.  Hopefully, some of our colleagues will post more here in this off-season - we've got to try and keep up with the other boards!

Signed,
"Pudge" Angell, Alma College

[D306]

D3DB

Interesting topic regarding talent level in DIII.
I personally know several MIAA players whom had DII offers and preffered walk on status at DI schools.
These players elected to attend a DIII school(s) in the MIAA due to the superior education, and size of the colleges.

The sheer number of Higher Level, talented players, the time spent, and University resources applied is the diference between DII and DIII.

DII has a roster of partial scholarship players, and students that feel FB is the man driver for them in college. The DIII players have a range of skills, some are highly talented players whom have chosen to focus more on the educational aspects.

I guess I should clarify the statement regarding DII players, I am not trying to disparage anyone, many do not have the financial resources to make the choice of DIII premier schools. They may have chosen a DII school for numerous other reasons, IE: socially the  larger size has its advantages.

A Hillsdale education is a superior education and a DII university, were a player can still get some assistance to play FB.

In my thought pattern most premier DIII colleges offer a far superior education than most of the DII colleges I am aware of in the geographic area served by MIAA specifically.

Let's face it, the vast majority of these Student Athletes are not going to play FB after college, why would anyone let that be your sole deciding factor for your educational opprotunities?

[d3dl]

Perhaps it would be wise to "tread lightly" on the DIII is a superior education generality.  For example, Ferris State has an outstanding pharmacy program if I'm not mistaken and Grand Valley, an excellent education program.  Can you get these educational programs at a DIII school?  Education? Yes.  Pharmacy? Not to my knowledge. 

My point is, I don't know if it's fair to generalize that anyone who went DII did so because they didn't care about (or couldn't afford) a good education.

Not trying to light you up, here, but even after your clarification, I think you're missing the reason some kids go to DII schools.