FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Mr. Ypsi]

formerd3db:

How do you give people Karma?  I have seen the numbers and wondered how that works.

See FAQ.  After 200 posts, you will be given 'applaud' and 'smite' buttons, so karma comes from fellow, longer-term posters.  In principle, it could be a great tool for rewarding civility and insights, or curbing boorishness.  In practice, snce it is anonymous and not tied to specific posts, it all-too-often gives rise to petty vendettas.  (Especially with Hope and Calvin, SOME posters from each camp seem to almost reflexively 'smite' the 'foe' and 'applaud' the 'ally'.)

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Ah, I see.  Thats the real negative to when they switched systems for the message boards and I did not activate my username fast enough to save all my posts.  It dropped me right back to square one, but seeing as I was in season  at the time, I didnt even realize it.

[Pat Coleman]

Research universities, doc, probably requires being a university. Mentioning Hope in that same class is a stretch and you know it.

[ACRULZ]

DAWG:

I totally agree with you on the Hillsdale situation.  Their coaching staff is excellent and they do a lot of things to reduce the obvious mismatches that they incur each week.  As for coming down to D III, I also highly doubt that.  They manage only to win 4 or 5 games a year in the GLIAC.  You would think at some point in time that the players would get sick of playing to get 5 wins and would want to play for a championship and an opportunity to play in the playoffs.  But I guess that allure to some kids about being "scholarship athletes" is more important than actually competing and playing on a winning team, no matter what division.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

ACRULZ:

I can tell you that certainly the allure of being a "DII" player will make a kid go to a program without a chance at a championship.  After two years of recruiting and talking to other coaches, you lose players every year to measley 500 dollar scholarships or even to academic scholarships to DII's just so the players can say tehy are DII or that they "signed".  Its really a shame.

[D306]

D3DB


Thanks for the info.
Coming into Senior year, so we will see more this summer with College Exposure tournements and Senior year of school and season.

Had a very good Junior year and summer so far, so the interest in playing is peaking.

Have had some contact for schools, both Athletically and Academically after the SAT, MEAP and ACT testing.

Consulor at HS have been talking up a couple MIAA schools, as well as Hillsdale if she choses to stay in state and not to go to U of M.

Consulor is Kazoo grad and feels, for intern and /or Study Abroad Kazoo is the way to go. I do not know much about Kazoo except Academics are high and Reputation is good for graduates.
We liked Hope when seeing some FB games there and the Academics are solid.
We have family experience with Albion so we feel good about them also.

Will have visting all the schools by the end of fall.

For all the talking she could end up at Georgetown if she gets in, we are told it is tough to be accepted grades or not. Gtown, Notre Dame and BC are the prime out of State choices, all are tough to get into so can not put all the hope in getting in.


Well I posted way to much on my little world.

[D306]

DAWG

I can attest to your comments about, players choosing DII offers, even small offers just to say they are on Scholarship.


I know too many kids that have made that choice, and end up at a school that is not right for them, and they get no playing time to boot.

Pretty sad, need to pick the right school for you, the chances of ever going any farther after College are very slim. Take the best Education, or location for you is my advice.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

D306:

The best piece of advice I got when I was being recruited was from Coach Pierce at Ferris State.  I had been offered a partial ride to go there as well as a couple other DII's and was having a difficult time making a choice.  His advice was "Dont go where you are getting the most money, dont go where you think you will play the most, thats not whats most important.  Go to the school that fits you best and makes you comfortable."  When it was put to me that way, DIII was really the way to go, the money would have been great and I could have won some championships, but I would never have traded my experience at Adrian for a championship or a scholarship, the fact is that DIII is a unique experience that I think everyone should get a chance to live through, I tried to convey that in recruiting but some kids dont listen, it is just their loss.

[formerd3db]

Pat:
You are right and I agree with you.  The point that I was simply trying to make (although obviously rather poorly worded and my apologies) was that a school like Hope has a tremendous history of high quality and nationally recognized research grants in several areas, perhaps more so than many other schools of its own type.  I was not trying to put them in the category of the research universities as we know them and the accepted genre for those.  I could have done a better job in explaining that position I guess, and my opinion was not intended as a slight in any way towards those research universities.

D306:

Thanks for sharing and, no, you did not post too much about "your own little world".  I think everyone here enjoys hearing and sharing about each other's personal and family experiences in DIII.  That's part of what these boards are about and Pat and staff have provided us a wonderful opportunity to do so.

DAWG:

Ditto yours.  Each player has to make their own decision obviously.  For some, just being on the team at a DI school and perhaps getting the opportunity to play a few plays and/or on special teams in their careers is their goal and satisfying to them.  There is nothing wrong with that.  However, like you, while I had a chance to do that, I wouldn't trade my DIII experience athletically and/or academically - I do it all over again.  The key, I believe, is that it comes down to narrowing one's choices down to schools that will fit their academic aspirations/goals as well as one where they will have a realistic chance at having some decent playing time.  Of course, anything can happen and it can turn out great or sour at any level.   

[D306]

I heard the numbers are low at Kalamazoo for Football players.

Can anyone confirm this? I know watching them play VS. Albion last year the squad was not large in numbers.

I understand Kazoo has higher acceptance standards but is that the only reason?
They are a long time member of MIAA, I hope they can return to bigger numbers and that will result in more consistant teams.

Kazoo has some very strong teams in other sports so I am wondering why the low numbers in Football.

[formerd3db]

D306:

Since you are newer to our board, you may not be aware of that this topic has been discussed in the past by our colleagues here.  However, it is always good to "revisit" and rediscuss a topic.  For sure, numbers for football at Kazoo have returned to taking a downslide of recent.  When Kazoo played at Hope last fall, the Hope program listed 55 players on the roster at Kazoo (and it is my understanding that this was not the travel roster but the full roster).  Coach Brooks has been attempting to improve the program and we all know that it takes a few years to improve a program let alone "turn it around".  With the various coaching changes at Kazoo in recent years (both in head coach and assistant coaching positions), it has been a somewhat slower progress to say the least.

Moreover, Kazoo's academic faculty (not all, but most) has never been high supporters of the football program, let alone the intercollegiate athletic program as a whole except perhaps the nationally renowned tennis program and that not overwhelmingly? (all this according to various alumni that we've all talked with, know, and/or even those who have posted here).  There was some gleam of hope recently as 3-4 years ago when Kazoo upset Wabash in fb and also had +4000 people in attendance at its Homecoming game vs. Hope at Angell Stadium Field.  However, it has been a tough road since.

Kazoo is indeed a great academic institution as you and others have pointed out and many people know.  It also has a great athletic history including in football and many of us would like to see them return to an upper tier in that.  While they will never be a powerhouse, being a competitive program is not impossible as Olivet has proven in recent years.  But, of course, it is not easy.  Hopefully, they will improve in time - whether or not Brooks is the one who will be able to lead them to it is difficult to say.  Time will tell and I hope he can.  Another tidbit which has been previously discussed:  while they have made some improvements to Angell, they are in desparate need of continuing that further i.e. like synthetic turf, new seating in the home hill stands and a new press box.

[bulldogalum]

From simply watching the sidelines (and being too lazy to check the rosters), I'd be willing to bet Kzoo has fewer players than most of the other MIAA schools.  Part of that is due to their high admissions standards, but I also think the school administration might not support its football program (and indeed, its athletic programs--minus tennis) as well as some other MIAA schools, especially regarding recruiting budgets.  High academic standards + small recruiting budget = small rosters.  Just my two cents.

[bulldogalum]

looks like we were posting at the same time, d3db.  My post was wasted.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Kzoo is also victim of a quota system from what I have heard.  In talking with Coach Rogers(previous coach) they were only allowed to bring in a certain number of players in realtion to the size of the class.  That makes recruiting classes in the 20-25 range which is not enough to compete at a high level unless you string together a couple great classes.

[D306]

Thanks for info.

Too bad, smart kids play football too.

I can not see how having quality football players or for that matter a 40 - 50 man recruit class lowers the quality of school. It is not like Albion, Hope, Wheaton, Carnegie Melon or numeous other D3 schools are easy to meet the entrance requirements.

If the Academic requirements are held high, Kazoo can still maintain their well earned Reputation while still enjoying a Spirit and school pride sport.
Football and/or any sport teachs and provide quite a bit more than just another sport to the Colleges and the students themselves.

The lessons learned playing a sport while excelling in College Academics, is a life leasson that prepares students for being productive leaders in the future.