FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[blb]

Unfortunately db you (unintentionally) highlight another area where 'K' falls behind in MIAA football: The Hornets do not have the numbers to play JV games, so their freshmen lose game experience.

Of course, one recruiting "selling" point for 'K' football is, if you go there, you are on the varsity immediately - in some cases, second string right away! But obviously freshmen won't get the same experience as at other MIAA schools. And if too many of them play significant time, they're going to lose anyway.

Another area that impacts 'K' football occasionally is the lack of a track and field program. It has been a deciding factor between schools for some kids who have wanted to compete in both sports.

Hope has more freshmen, and as many juniors and seniors combined, as Kazoo's entire roster!

[formerd3db]

blb:

I know what you mean.  I didn't mention that Kazoo doesn't have a JV program as I didn't want imply or focus on a "negative" aspect.  It would be great to see Kazoo be able to develop a JV program eventually if they can bring up the numbers.  A difficult task, but not impossible to do.  I remember not too long ago, that Alma's program, which had experienced about 66 or so players on the roster for several years, was concerned about having enough "healthy" bodies to even field the JV program, let alone having some underclassmen to fill in if/when the need arose regarding injuries to some of the full time varsity players.  Some JV games had to be cancelled, yet they slowly worked at improving the entire fb program to a yearly competitive level which brought in more overall numbers.  This subsequently helped the JV program become more solid as well.  Of course, we all know that "success entices success" as people want to come to successful programs and Albion, Hope, Adrian and to some degree now Olivet have seen increased numbers for incoming freshman after successful winning seasons and particularly after championship years.

Of course, you "hit the nail on the head" in describing the challenges that Kazoo faces and the impossibility of fielding a JV program.  On the other hand, the opportunity to be on the full time varsity immediately I would think should be/would be a draw to some potential recruits (uh, I mean student-athletes ).  Sometimes as we all know it comes down to a "#'s game" (no pun intended ) in that regard, but it works both ways as you allude to.  For example, schools like Hope, Albion, Mount Union, etc. who have upwards of 200 players coming in (accounting for the usual attrition, of course), some players at positions where there are less returning players have a real chance at perhaps attaining significant playing time or starting; other times it works just the opposite.  At a school like Kazoo, the chance to play immediately is enticing, but then again, becomes a worry with regards to the "injury bug" as the season progresses which in turn can hamper the program.  This happend to Olivet back around 1999 or so the year before Irv Siegler was enticed to return to his alma mater.

Anyway, as we've discussed, hopefully, Kazoo can build up the program to become more competitive.  Also, yes, it's too bad they don't have a track and field program.  Do you know the reasoning behing that?  I'm just curious.  Thanks for the info.   

[formerd3db]

BTW guys, we are slowly creeping to that "Centennial" mark for pages of posting!  Do any of you think we'll reach that level before  the start of the pre-season camps?  I do, but we'll see what happens.

[HOF]

As I read these post I decided to surf the MIAA websites to see about JV football.

I was rather shocked to see Adrian playing a ton of JV games.  It looks like they are playing two games on the same date.  I'd assume they'd have some heavy numbers coming in. 

Look like Adrian has 12 JV games, while Hope plays six games.  Olivet eight games.  Tri-State eight games.  Albion's website was down.

Another thing to factor in is cost for these games.  Usually we are talking six refs, game mangement, travel, food, etc.  So all in all if a school can't afford them due to a small budget, that is something else to thing about.

[formerd3db]

HOF:

That is shocking.  Actually, it is a little "insane" IMO.  They must be having a ton of players coming in, although I was not able to find out any info on their website as to the #'s.  Even so, and with "split squads", while that will provide a lot of playing time for the incoming freshman, they might as well just have a "freshman" team like in the old days...because, I believe, that NCAA rules only allow a player a total of 10 games (not including any playoff games).  This means that for every JV game that a player participates in (even stepping one foot on the field for a play), that is one less varsity game they could play in.

JV programs can indeed be a big plus as many have discussed here for a variety of reasons.  In some programs, a new player who has a great outing in a JV game can actually earn a spot on the traveling squad roster and special teams, which indeed is a great motivating factor for them.  On a perhaps less important aspect, it also provides some of the younger assistant coaches with opportunities to gain experience as an offensive or defensive coordinator or coaching other related position groups or even special teams.   

Now, most of you will probably (and correctly) point out that most of these young players will not have much of a chance to get in a varsity game anyway.  However, even if playing in a few JV games one's first year, the thrill and potential opportunity of getting in a varsity game (even if for a few plays in a blowout) is something to be considered for a first year player.  Another (although perhaps minor) concern is with regards to injuries - with split squad games, chances of that will be higher per player.  Also, it will be interesting to see how Adrian will be thus able to split up their training staff to help assist in these away JV games.  While I think a JV program has merit and helps the overall varsity as well as providing opportunity for new players to gain some experience at the collegiate level (which even in DIII is so different than h.s.), IMO, I think a 12 game JV schedule is a bit overboard.  Six games are plenty, and even then, some of those become cancelled due to the injury factor (and in rarer instances for some schools - although this obviously won't apply to Adrian this year - not wanting to waste a potential game for a player that might be needed later in the season.  With regard to the latter, I have seen that situation occur in the past).

At any rate, it will be interesting to see if this works out for the Adrian program.  Personally, I doubt all 12 JV games will be played, but then again, I could be wrong - it wouldn't be the first time!

All of the above are just some general thoughts I wanted to share.  Perhaps our friends from Adrian DAWG and bulldogalum will share their opinions and comment on this.

Very interesting.  Also, great to see all the discussions going on here on our board.  Keep it up guys!  We still have a long way to go compared to some of the other boards.  It is always great to have new people join us here along with the veteran contributors here.  Thanks.

[ACRULZ]

D3DB:


Talking to a couple of guys close to the program at Adrian, they will have close to 180 or 190 guys on the team.  The coaching staff felt that the JV players were not prepared enough as they became varsity players; that they lacked game experience.  For younger guys I believe the more game experience the better.  Six games to me is not nearly enough for the number of freshman that Adrian will have.  Some guys mentioned that last season they had some positions that were 6 or 7 deep; which equals not nearly enough reps.  Also what it does help is keeping the younger players motivated.  When the JV team plays their last game I'm sure the effort and focus in practice drops off a bit.  Thus giving the starters a bad look in practice with regards to the scout teams.

But on the whole I do believe a solid JV program can only benefit a program.  Speaking in Adrian's case a lot of their former standout players were JV products including Taz Wallace, Dan Regan, and Dan Mckeown, who at some level were All-Americans.

[ACRULZ]

DAWG:


BTW, I hear that another coach left Adrian???  What is going on there?  Was it a personal decision or are egos  clashing in the land of the Bulldogs?

[HOF]

Funny thing....I just put two and two together....my comment about Vick and Herrington...I didn't really realize that Herrington was the back up guy....lololol.

I do agree 12 games is a tad too much, but if ACRULZ is right, I do agree these kids need to play...in the long run...they are paying to play....you pay for school.  It will be interesting to see how it works for the Bulldogs.  Adrian trying to be Mount Union?

Another coach left Adrian?  Wow, must be the water down in Adrian.

I also believe if playing that many games is a good thing....why wouldn't everyone do it.  I have concerns with injury, cost and beat up players.  I'd imagine that having that many kids playing in those games might affect those early week practices, with kids beat up, etc.  It was probably an easy thing with six deep at each position, because everyone didn't play, but with each kid playing more, this will wear them down....thus making scout teams even worse.

D3, still haven't figured out how to send messages.....I didn't forget.

[Pat Coleman]

HOF: You're not going crazy -- new users don't have the ability to send PMs after we had some trouble with them in the past.

[ACRULZ]

HOF:


I disagree, injuries are going to happen.  When you have that many guys on your team, you can't worry about getting them too banged up, its gonna happen anyway as the season progresses.  And as for why doesn't everyone do it?  Well just because a certain number of people don't do or do something dosen't make it right or wrong.  Knowing Coach Lyall, he could care less what Mt Union, Hope, Albion or any other school does for that matter.  His whole mantra at Adrian is to concentrate on what WE do.  Also, it doesn't hurt that Adrian has a pretty generous football budget!!!

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

ACRULZ:

Yes another coach did leave, the guy that they hired from LSU was there for about 5 months and decided to take another job I believe in Arkansas.  From what I hear he had some other issues as well none with the program or other coaches but other issues.  It was a personal decision to leave but trust me he will have to be in Michigan at least one more time.

HOF:

Yes Adrian is playing 12 games this year for JV and I agree that it is a very large number.  The reason behind the split squad games is so that they can get their freshman a chance to play.  As they are looking at bringing in about 85-100 freshman or transfers this year they need to find a way to play them all.  That is one promise coach Lyall makes to incoming freshman that they will all get a chance to play and he is very good about that in JV games.  We will see how the 12 works out as it will split the staff to different locations and could possibly take away from their monday game planning if they have JV road games, but time will tell.  In theory it is a great idea as the freshman very much enjoy the JV experience and it can be fun for the younger coaches as well. 

formerd3db:

In the past Adrian has always tried to play an 8 game JV schedule and even before the move to a 12 game split squad schedule this year they were trying to schedule 10.   The thinking behind that is that the more games they can play the better off they will be.  It also becomes hard to keep some of the players interested in practice when they have played their last JV game with 4 weeks left in the season and are now truly just going through the motions on scout team.  It gives the freshman something to look forward to and allows them to take some personal pride in what they do.  I know the JV team I was the HC for at Adrian that went undefeated was very proud, to the point where they all donated money and we have Adrain JV Undefeated MIAA Champs ****s made!  I still have it hanging in the closet it comes out for special occasions.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Breaking News Adrian appears to be losing another coach as the intern they had hired from Defiance who has been at Adrian again for about 5 months is leaving.  The preliminary word  is that he will be leaving the intern position to go to EMU to take over as the Video Coordinator.  A good move to make as he will receive a huge increase in pay and be at a DI program(albeit a low level) which will afford him lots of opportunities and connections.

Just talked to a source at EMU and he is heading up for an interview on Tuesday, it is not official but it looks promising.  Thought I would edit this on so that it doesnt make it set in stone.

[JacketsFan]

Whoa! I finally got all the synpases in my brain working and remembered my dang password. How the hell is everyone? Doc Todd, good to see you're still around. Drop me a line.

It's been good reading everyone's posts and bringing back old memories about seasons gone by. Richard graduated from DC in the spring and he and his g/f moved down to Florida to live with us temporarily. Richard got a management job with Publix , thanks to the biz and economics degree from DC, so he and Emily are living with us until they save up the bucks for a place of their own. They got engaged in mid-May. The poor sap got on his knees and popped the question. I think she had to help him up off the floor afterward.

I'm missing being a football dad already, but I'm seeing firsthand the withdrawal a player endures when he hangs up his cleats for the last time. But, we still bleed purple and gold in this house and we've already made plans to attend a couple of games at DC this year, thanks to an el-cheapo airline that just started flying to Columbus from nearby St. Augustine. I think our homecoming game tickets if we buy them now will run us about $150 each round trip. Plus, the prez's office at DC has talked with me about maybe coming up from time to time and doing lectures in criminal investigations and writing. That should be fun if it pans out. I really came to love the place.

Now, the important stuff. DC's offense will be improved this year.  Look for a new look on the O-line. The new O-line coach came in and whipped them into shape. He doesn't want slow, fat toads up front. The defense will be formidable again this year. The secondary retained some of it's workhorses. Upfront, they lost some heavy firepower but I hear the replacements are looking promising. Will they be as good as last year? Tht might be a bit of a reach, considering how some said last year's was the best they've seen. Maybe not right away but my guess is that by maybe by the third game or so they'll be coming along nicely if everyone stays healthy.

I guess the question looming in everyone's mind right now is whether Vetter will have improved or will we see a repeat of last year? I'm going to go out on a limb and say that last year was the sophomore slump, complicated by a massive case of inflated ego. I think the answer will be how he handles himself in the first game if he's still the starting QB. If he comes out and keeps control of the ball and doesn't throw pics, I believe that will set the tone for the season. If he comes out doing what he did last year, I think it'll be another year of hunker down in the trenches and wait for the shelling to stop. I hear there's some talent at RB and of course Dillon will be back. I think Gary Allen is back, too.

I hope they've got someone who can punt this year.

How will the rest of the conference line up? I think Franklin is going to come out slugging to get up front and stay there. I'm drawing a blank on MSJ. I have a hard time believing that Hanover will be that much better than last year. I have a hunch that RHIT is going to be much improved. Those kids from Tri-State will be improved but not enough to matter. They have some talent but I think it'll be next year before they do anything with it. I look for Man-U and Bluffton to be about where they were last year. At this point, I see DC in second or third place, depending on what they return with on offense. That's the ticket. Taylor will get a defense out of them.

Good to be back. Hope all is well with all. Especially you DC guys.

[JacketsFan]

Oops! Obviously, some very important brain synapses still ain't working. Okay, this post was obviously supposed to go on the HCAC board, for all you people who're scratching yours heads and asking yourselves what kind of chemicals I've been imbibing. But to you MIAA friends of mine, hello anyway.

[ACRULZ]

It seems as though Adrian has a "mini cradle of coaches" situation going on.  A lot of their coaches are "moving up".  That is two guys at EMU, one guy at D 1 AA Central Arkansas and a current assistant who will be with the Detroit Lions during training camp.  Yes there is a lot of turnover but essentially their coaches are moving to bigger and better things.  Which can be both good and bad.  Anyone have thoughts on the situation???

Are there anymore season previews out yet?