FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[maripp2002]

I think that W&J ran into something like this this year. They scheduled some not-so-winning programs this year likely thinking it to be a rebuilding year. And instead they won enough and ended up in Pool-C. I am rarely for "scheduling down", but for whatever reason they tend not to ask the fans what games we want to see. 

It is part of the same reason I don't like the NCAC's agreement with the UAA. I don't mind teams scheduling maybe one UAA team, but I would like to see them go take on another Pool-A conference team for that second game. I would suggest Wabash v. a CCIW contender, Wittenberg v. an OAC contender, Allegheny v. a PAC contender, etc. I think that would do more for the conference than a second game with an UAA opponent. 

[formerd3db]

I think that W&J ran into something like this this year. They scheduled some not-so-winning programs this year likely thinking it to be a rebuilding year. And instead they won enough and ended up in Pool-C. I am rarely for "scheduling down", but for whatever reason they tend not to ask the fans what games we want to see. 

It is part of the same reason I don't like the NCAC's agreement with the UAA. I don't mind teams scheduling maybe one UAA team, but I would like to see them go take on another Pool-A conference team for that second game. I would suggest Wabash v. a CCIW contender, Wittenberg v. an OAC contender, Allegheny v. a PAC contender, etc. I think that would do more for the conference than a second game with an UAA opponent. 

IMO, I think Hope is doing the right thing scheduling tough non-conf. games. If you look at this last year's results Hope was not out of any single game they played, and that starts to add up. This weeks ATN podcast actually deals with this subject in some measure talking about teams like Monmouth that blow everyone out on their schedule and then have a tough time in close games. Hope's tough schedule and hard losses this year make for a better, tougher, team next year. If Trine keeps the momentum going into next year that could spell a Pool-C for the MIAA. I honestly love what many of the MIAA teams do schedule-wise. You can only win the games you play, but making those games as solid as possible usually pays off (this year's Pool-C excluded). 

Perhaps this post should wait until the MIAA is out of the play-offs, but I'm afraid I'd forget my question by then!

I really admire Hope's non-con schedule (3 CCIW contenders and an above average WIAC team - and they acquitted themselves well against all four), but I wonder if it might be TOO ambitious?

I haven't checked their schedules prior to 2008, but am assuming that the philosophy of ambitious scheduling was probably in place then too.  Prior to 2008, it seemed to work very well for preparing Hope for the conference schedule.  The last two years, it seems otherwise.

In 2008-09 has Hope been too beaten down (mentally) or too beaten up (physically) to continue their previous success, or were they just not as good as previous years?  (With other plausible conclusions obviously being that the MIAA competition was better or that it is just a two year statistical glitch.)

Has Hope taken "The Audacity of Hope" (pun intended) too far?  (And yes, I know that this year they came within a TD of all four non-con opponents, but was it too costly?)

IMHO yes...........but Hope has pretty much always played an ambitious non-conf schedule with few exceptions.  In the 4 years I was at Hope, they played DePauw, Wabash every year and had Michigan Tech, Drake and Findley on the schedule.

Hope future football schedules are softened up a bit

2010 and 2011  flipping sites in 2011
Saturday, Sept. 4 - Illinois Wesleyan at Hope, 1:30 p.m. ET (Community Day)
Saturday, Sept. 11 - Hope at Wisconsin Lutheran, noon CT
Saturday, Sept. 18 - Hope at Millikin, Ill., 1 p.m. CT
Saturday, Sept. 25 - Lakeland at Hope, 1 p.m. ET

2012 and 2013  again flipping sites in 2013
Saturday, Sept. 1 - North Park at Hope, 1:30 p.m. ET (Community Day)
Saturday, Sept. 8 - Hope at Millikin, Ill., 1 p.m. CT
Saturday, Sept. 15 - MIAA/NAC Challenge (away, opponent tba)
Saturday, Sept. 22 - opponent/site to be determined

2014 and 2015
only games confirmed  MIAA/NAC Challenge


I'm sorry to see the Hope/Wheaton series ending, thats been tremendous competition for a number of years and is frankly a no brainer schedule wise for both schools.

Hope also had a long running series with DePauw that ended in 2006 and frequently played Wabash until they joined the NCAC.

Boya, that is exactly what I'm saying.  If you look at any conference with a perennial contender, every team in it is trying to beat the best.  By doing that, you make your team and your program better.  When more teams start becoming more competitive the conference will get better.  Then as you play non-conference and tournament games you see better competition.  As you begin to win those games national respect is given.  And ultimately, winning ball games is the only formula for gaining that respect.

You younger guys (and "newer" posters to this board probably haven't had the opportunity to see the previous discussions on the board regarding this topic that us older and "verteran" posters have had.  There have been many opinions as to the reasoning for the more recent lack of success in advancing beyond the first round of the playoffs as well as the "philosophy" of playing tougher non-conference teams.  I will briefly reiterate/summarize my own opinion on those aspects.  Back in "my day", we played some tougher non-conference opponents (and some DII teams), of which I've always believed in the long run will help a team get to that next level.  It doesn't happen overnight and in essence it is about changing one's attitude in believing it can be done (i.e. again my examples of Northwestern in the Big Ten and Olivet in our own conference).  Of course, there will be some set-backs and "steaks" (i.e. Olivet's and Hope's poor seasons the last two years).  However, in the long run, I think that this will pay off for Hope in the next couple of years.

In addition then, with regard to the playoffs, it also takes a little luck - and I mean that sincerely.  As good as Albion's 1994 National Championship team was, were it not for a little luck here and there in the playoffs, they very nearly would have not been in the Stagg Bowl.  Certainly, recruiting and the nature of the competition, both at DIII and in competition of recruiting against DII schools in many regions has had an effect on this to a degree.  Yet, again, overall, I think that the MIAA can get back to the next level and be a good competitor with its teams in the playoffs.  Hopefully, Trine's success will continue and carry that over.

One last comment on that, as sac has mentioned in his post; it is disappointing to see that the Wheaton/Hope series has now ended (at least for awhile) and the same for the Hope/DePauw and Hope/Wabash series of a few years back.  I and many others would like to see those return, although the Hope/IWU series is a good one and the Carthage one as well.  Yet, not sure what North Park will add to this overall "scheme" as I discussed above - although a win (most likely) certainly doesn't hurt the confidence.

[formerd3db]

Sad to hear that Coach DeVette passed away, although he is no longer suffering.  I am glad and so thankful I had the privilege of playing for him, being taught by him both in football and "in the game of life" and all the right values, as Pres/Coach Bultman summarized in his statement.  I am also glad I had the opportunity to see him at Homecoming this year as most of us knew it was getting near the end for him.  My thoughts and prayers will be for his wife and family this week.

[BOYA87]

I will give my rookie view on the scheduling topic, although it might not be as insightful as you veterans formerd3   I think it is extremely important for teams to challenge themselves in their outside competition.  For one, this really gives your team a good measure of where you stand nationally as well as personally.  I have always loved "The Big Game" and for some schools that don't make the playoffs or compete for a conference championship often these non-conference "Big" games could be the only ones they get.

However, I think in Hopes case it is a positive thing that they lighten the schedule.  It seemed that they made their first 4 games much harder on themselves than it needed to be.  Yes, these non-conference games should challenge your team but they should not destroy it.  Lets face it, these games are as close to a pre-season as any college season will have.  It is a chance for your team to further evaluate new players and make sure everyone is in the right spot.  It is a chance to put your offense and defense into full motion and see if there are any holes.  It is essentially "practicing" you for the conference season (because without success in the conference, there is a slim chance for a playoff run.)

Take this last year for example, Hope played well against their tough non-conference schedule but not well enough to get a win.  Although they start their season 0-4 they are still positive with heads up because those were some damn good teams they competed against.  However as soon as that first conference game comes they drop to 0-5.  This can really punch a team in the gut and take the wind out of their sails.  They are now only 1 game into the conference season and yet they stand ZERO chance of a winning season.  This do can do real damage to a teams psyche.

And so Im in support of scheduling a difficult team or 2 in the non-conference schedule, but I don't think you should allow the team to get "beat up on" by the non-conference schedule.

[Hayden Fox]

What's the story with Olivet?

[D306]

Liv is gone.

A formal search is in process.

[formerd3db]

What's the story with Olivet?

Liv is gone.

A formal search is in process.

While I do not doubt you, it is quite strange that there is nothing posted on the Olivet athletic website about Coach Liv stepping down.  Perhaps our colleague OC_SID can inform us of what is going on.  I figured Coach Liv would consider stepping down in the next couple of years, however, if it is true he did so now, I am surprised.  I would have liked to see him continue for another year or so.  On the other hand, it has been rumored that Coach Mike Smith, whom he hired last year after Smith's successful longtime stint as Head Coach at Holt High School (south suburb of Lansing), would be the leading candidate for the next head coach when Liv decided to step down.  I also think assist coach Mike Sparks (a former Hope College football standout who also has high school head coaching experience, as well as being a coordinator in both high school and at Olivet as well) would be a very good choice as well.  We'll see what transpires in the next couple of weeks or so.  I assume that the time table for selecting a new coach (again, if Coach Liv actually did step down) would not linger much longer after the Thanksgiving Day holiday and certainly before Christmas I would hope.  This would obviously be a help in recruiting for them.

[formerd3db]

I will give my rookie view on the scheduling topic, although it might not be as insightful as you veterans formerd3   I think it is extremely important for teams to challenge themselves in their outside competition.  For one, this really gives your team a good measure of where you stand nationally as well as personally.  I have always loved "The Big Game" and for some schools that don't make the playoffs or compete for a conference championship often these non-conference "Big" games could be the only ones they get.

However, I think in Hopes case it is a positive thing that they lighten the schedule.  It seemed that they made their first 4 games much harder on themselves than it needed to be.  Yes, these non-conference games should challenge your team but they should not destroy it.  Lets face it, these games are as close to a pre-season as any college season will have.  It is a chance for your team to further evaluate new players and make sure everyone is in the right spot.  It is a chance to put your offense and defense into full motion and see if there are any holes.  It is essentially "practicing" you for the conference season (because without success in the conference, there is a slim chance for a playoff run.)

Take this last year for example, Hope played well against their tough non-conference schedule but not well enough to get a win.  Although they start their season 0-4 they are still positive with heads up because those were some damn good teams they competed against.  However as soon as that first conference game comes they drop to 0-5.  This can really punch a team in the gut and take the wind out of their sails.  They are now only 1 game into the conference season and yet they stand ZERO chance of a winning season.  This do can do real damage to a teams psyche.

And so Im in support of scheduling a difficult team or 2 in the non-conference schedule, but I don't think you should allow the team to get "beat up on" by the non-conference schedule.

BOYA87:

You younger guy's opinions are just as important.  Anyway, I agree with you.  While this year we (Hope) only lost by a few points to the non-conference teams (and probably should have won at least two of those games), I think that scheduling two "upper tier" non-conference teams and two others that a team would have a good chance of winning is the best route to go, at least for now (although, unfortunately, sometimes a team can find ways to lose those "easier" games. such as Hope seemed to do this year).  You also have to have the talent on the field and some of the teams this year need to improve in that area IMO.  While this last statement may seem like and an obvious and unnecessary one, I'm talking about having better "upper tier" players rather than just "good fooball players".  There is indeed a difference and, by that, I mean there are some good high school football players who are not really good enough to play even at the small college level and there are some really very good players who are not either and/or just don't pan out even at that level.  Attitude has alot to do with it and, unfortunately, in some cases, I've seen that "zeal" lacking in some of "today's" players on many college teams.  While losing is frustrating, some people don't rise to the occasion and just give up and "go through the motions".  Just MO.  

[rome]

If Liv is gone--Bring Irv Back---not Irv---Bring in Jay Carrigan

[formerd3db]

Olivet "Update":

Guys, I went back and searched Olivet's athletic website and there is a Press Release that was dated last week Nov 19th posted there relating that Heather Bateman, Olivet's current Head Women's Basketball Coach had been appointed as Athletic Director of the college by President Donald Troski.  While Troski thanked Coach Livedoti for "stepping in" to fill that role when needed, there was no mention whatsoever about his stepping down and/or not continuing as Olivet's head football coach.  Thus, until that is announced, confirmed, or proven that otherwise it was just a rumor, it appears that Livedoti is still the coach.  I tend to not lend any credibility to other "blogs" (such as M-Live) that erroneously report such assumed situations.  As such, I would encourage anyone to only pay attention to the official Olivet athletic website for any such future announcements.  Anyway, the press release also states that Bateman will continue in her position as basketball coach.

[Uncle Rico]

On the MIAA website, it says the Olivet coaching position is vacant...

http://www.miaa.org/fb/fbcoach.html

Updated 11/18/2009

MIAA Coaches
League Coordinator: Jeff Posendek, Trine  < posendekj@trine.edu>

Adrian: Jim Deere < jdeere@adrian.edu >
Albion: Craig Rundle < crundle@albion.edu >
Alma: Jim Cole < cole@alma.edu >
Hope: Dean Kreps < kreps@hope.edu >
Kalamazoo:  Jamie Zorbo < jzorbo@kzoo.edu >
Olivet: vacant <>
Trine: Matt Land < landm@trine.edu>

[D306]

Guys

I can confirm Liv has stepped down.

I will not share who, or how I know it.
It has been handled quietly at Olivet, so I will leave it to those associated with the College to put more info out.

Good luck to Trine this weekend, it would be a BIG win this weekend.

[formerd3db]

Thanks for the additional info, and I respect your request for confidentiallity D306.  Yet, I still find it very strange that Olivet would choose to handle it this way i.e. in keeping it quiet.  Of course, speculation does no good/solves nothing here,  but I can only venture a guess that perhaps it wasn't quite a "mutual decision", although, again, I could be wrong and way off base. 

[Raider 68]

Thanks for the additional info, and I respect your request for confidentiallity D306.  Yet, I still find it very strange that Olivet would choose to handle it this way i.e. in keeping it quiet.  Of course, speculation does no good/solves nothing here,  but I can only venture a guess that perhaps it wasn't quite a "mutual decision", although, again, I could be wrong and way off base. 

former3db,

In your opinion, what are the keys to the game for Trine against Wittenberg this Saturday?

[BOYA87]

Like was said earlier this week, this game is one with an explosive offense and a stringent defense.  I believe the term that has been used to describe such a game is "an unstoppable force VS an unmovable object" and I think that is a fitting set-up for this weekends game. 

The keys for a Trine victory I think comes at the hands of the offense.  Their game against Case Western showed a great formula for success.  Establish the run game early which opens up big opportunities in the passing game.  However with such a tough defense this could be a difficult task so Trine needs to take advantage of every opportunity they get.  If they get in the red zone they HAVE to get 7.  If their defense gets them a turnover they HAVE to reward them and turn it into points.  I think creative play calling and big plays could mean the difference in this game.  I am sure we wont see the methodical drives like we saw last week so this game could very well come down to a couple of big plays.  No turnovers, no penalties, and I think Trine will put themselves in a great opportunity to win this game.

Thanks for your continued posting with us Raider