FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Grutte Dirk]

I don't buy this cost talk.  I think this is the first time I've ever heard it raised in regards to a football program.  At most schools, football is the biggest money maker. 

Not that I know, but I would be surprised if ANY D3 football team brought in more revenue than their expenses.  At the D1 level 50% of the football teams make more money than they cost. At the D2 level, Grand Valley State University football (three time NCAA champs) has $600,000 more in expenses than in revenue.

.... it is not out of the reach whatsoever for Calvin to do it - again $ there is just not the problem .... As far as a field, Calvin certainly has the $ (i.e. it could be easily raised) .... if schools like Olivet and Adrian can raise the $ as they have (and especially Olivet), no way that Calvin can't do it.

Calvin has struggled to raise money for a new Athletic/Fitness Center for the past few years.  The money is not flowing like some think, many Calvin alums are more committed to giving to academic programs (ie. new Science Building).

.... however, that isn't absolutely necessary if one wanted to "save some $" as there are many football facilities within a short drive from their campus which I have no doubt some arrangements could be made (at least for the first few start up years).

Good point.  Grand Rapids is a large city with many nice stadiums.

[Trailer Dog]

As far as your coaching statements, not all the MIAA schools have the coaching "set-up" as you relate.  Alma was one of the first to go with non-teaching coaching positions in football and while not everyone agrees with that philosophy, it seems to work for them, and quite successfully in the past 10 years as can be seen.  I'm not so sure that is the way to go for a variety of reasons (some of which includes non-athletic reasons related to mentoring a student-athlete) and which is why Hope will never go that route.

Many MIAA schools state that they believe in a teacher/coach philosophy, but their hiring practices do not follow.

How many MIAA teams are coached by part-time staff? 
How many MIAA HPERDS departments hire and retain faculty that cannot coach? 
Many MIAA schools can't hire multiple part-timers because there isn't anyone in the small town that can do the job?

[Flea]

I'm not so sure that is the way to go for a variety of reasons (some of which includes non-athletic reasons related to mentoring a student-athlete) and which is why Hope will never go that route.

Many MIAA schools state that they believe in a teacher/coach philosophy, but their hiring practices do not follow.

How many MIAA teams are coached by part-time staff? 

Hope College's head coaches:

coach Stu Fritz, admissions staff (baseball)
coach Glenn Van Wieren EdD, professor (men's basketball)
coach Brian Morehouse, director of Dow and DeVos (women's basketball)
coach Wes Wooley, self-employed graphic artist (cheerleading)
coach  Mark Northuis PhD,  professor (cross country)
coach Dean Kreps MA, associate professor (football)
coach Bob Ebels, independent businessman (men's golf)
coach Eva Dean Folkert MA, women's AD (women's golf)
coach Steve Smith PhD, professor (men's soccer)
coach Leigh Sears MA, assistant professor (women's soccer)
coach Karla Wolters MA, associate professor (softball)
coach John Patnott PhD, professor (swimming)
coach Steve Gorno, Johnson Controls (men's tennis)
coach Karen Page, director of DeWitt (women's tennis) 
coach Kevin Cole PhD, associate professor (track and field)
coach  Becky Schmidt MA (volleyball)

Nine of sixteen Hope College head coaches are not teaching staff (assuming the AD also teaches).  Seems like Hope has already "gone that route".

[formerd3db]

Some additional comments/clarifications to the discussion:

Flea:

If you want to be specific, then a clarification is appropriate.  The majority of Hope's head coaches are in teaching positions and I think you would agree that the major sports have this.  It is doubtful that any of their major sports head coaching positions (not counting J.V. teams) would be given to "part-time" coaches i.e. those not affiliated in some official capacity at the college.  I believe that was within the context we were talking - if not, my apologies for not clarifying that aspect.


Bilk:

Personally, I don't believe that there are not plenty of people in the small MIAA towns who could do the job as "part-timers".   I would dare say that all the MIAA towns have such people who could - rather those people choose not too.  Moreover, many of the MIAA schools have "part-time" assistant coaches on their staffs (we're talking football here) who travel quite a distance to coach each day and on weekends and they do so because they want to (and are qualified to do the job).  They just happen to either hold other jobs and/or are graduate students working on their advanced degrees.  To the best of my knowledge, most of these positions are paid positions also (at least I know they are at some of the schools).

[formerd3db]

Addendum:  I might be wrong, but I believe Coach Fritz does have teaching responsibilities on occasion (or has done so in the past).

[Bushop]

Bilk:

Personally, I don't believe that there are not plenty of people in the small MIAA towns who could do the job as "part-timers".   I would dare say that all the MIAA towns have such people who could - rather those people choose not too.  Moreover, many of the MIAA schools have "part-time" assistant coaches on their staffs (we're talking football here) who travel quite a distance to coach each day and on weekends and they do so because they want to (and are qualified to do the job).  They just happen to either hold other jobs and/or are graduate students working on their advanced degrees.  To the best of my knowledge, most of these positions are paid positions also (at least I know they are at some of the schools).

I was told firsthand by an MIAA head coach that he could not hire most assistants even if he had the budget to becasue he did not know who he would hire.  When you look at Calvin's XC and T&F staff, six paid XC coaches and six paid T&F coaches plus a few volunteers ..... this is partialy due to Calvin's location in a community of 500,000 people. 

Can Adrian, Alma or Albion find that many solid coaches within commuting distance?  I know you disagree but still .....

[Flea]

Some additional comments/clarifications to the discussion:

Flea:

If you want to be specific, then a clarification is appropriate.  The majority of Hope's head coaches are in teaching positions and I think you would agree that the major sports have this.  It is doubtful that any of their major sports head coaching positions (not counting J.V. teams) would be given to "part-time" coaches i.e. those not affiliated in some official capacity at the college.  I believe that was within the context we were talking - if not, my apologies for not clarifying that aspect.

Good point, we were discussing "major" sports.

IMO, MIAA major sports:
- football
- women's basketball
- men's basketball
- women's volleyball

Would you agree with Bilk?  Are these the "major" sports?

[formerd3db]

Bish':

Hmmm, that is interesting.  I am surprised at that comment from that head coach, whom I obviously have no clue who that might be.  On the other hand, I find it surprising because I know of another head coach there who would confirm actually the opposite.  There are many qualified people (perhaps more than you may know) who would love the opportunity to serve as assistant coaches on the staff, however, it is not the right timing at present i.e. circumstances otherwise prevent that.

And yes, all three "A" schools can find/have found (particularly the northern most school) solid coaches within communting distance (I know this from first hand info/experience, both past and present "history").  

[Bushop]

I stand corrected.  I have only heard that from one head coach.

I guess my other evidence is the lack of good coaches in the MIAA in so many sports.

[formerd3db]

Thanks Flea and Bilk and Bish' for an interesting discussion.  Had to get my "late night" DIIIfb.com fix!   Time to retire for the evening but will look forward to further topics/discussions in the near future.  Take care.

[Flea]

I'm not so sure that is the way to go for a variety of reasons (some of which includes non-athletic reasons related to mentoring a student-athlete) and which is why Hope will never go that route.

Many MIAA schools state that they believe in a teacher/coach philosophy, but their hiring practices do not follow.

How many MIAA teams are coached by part-time staff? 

Calvin College's head coaches:

coach James Timmer Jr. PhD men's AD (baseball)
coach Kevin VandeStreek MA, professor (men's basketball)
coach John Ross MS, associate professor (women's basketball and men's tennis)
coach Brian Diemer, independent businessman (cross country)
coach Al Hoekstra, independent businessman (cross country)
coach Brian Bolt PhD, professor (men's golf)
coach Jerry Bergsma MA, professor (women's golf and women's tennis)
coach Chris Hughes, independent businessman (men's soccer)
coach Mark Recker, independent businessman (women's soccer)
coach Deb Bakker HSD, professor (softball)
coach Dan Gelderloos MA, instructor and aquatics manager (swimmming)
coach Kim Jong-iI PhD, professor (track and field)
coach Amber Warners MA, professor (volleyball)


Four of fifteen Calvin College head coaches are not teaching staff (assuming the AD also teaches).

[bulldogalum]

Can Adrian, Alma or Albion find that many solid coaches within commuting distance?  I know you disagree but still .....

I think so.

True, Adrian is not the thriving metropolis that Grand Rapids is, but Toledo is 35 minutes away, Jackson is 40, and Ann Arbor is 45.  I think all of those qualify as "commuting distance." 

Albion, too, can draw from Jackson, as well as Battle Creek and Lansing, all of which are easily under an hour's drive.

Alma has the roughest go of it, but it's not too terribly far to Saginaw, and Mount Pleasant is just down the road.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

In terms of Coaching Staffs, Adrian is probably leading the league with some change.  For the first year ever Adrian has a fulltime 8 person coaching staff, with no teaching commitments.  All part of the progress that President Docking is bringing about.  This will be it posting for me as we start camp this afternoon at 1pm.  Good luck to all this season and I hope some of you get a chance to check out the new stadium when it is complete!

[bulldogalum]

We'll miss you on the board, DAWG, but I'll see you on the sidelines...I just ordered my season tickets yesterday!

[dc_has_been]

Just so I understand.  What's everyone's opinion on coaches having other responibilities other than coaching?