FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Raider 68]

formerd3db,

Maybe Hope can look at the new "proposed" stadium for Mary Hardin Baylor for ideas with the city!

What the designers come up with and what the college can afford are two entirely different things.  Maybe MHB has some really wealthy alums.

U trying to tell me hope doesn't? LOL yeah right....

DBQ1965, sflzman,

My guess is that UMHB has the alumni base for such a design give or take a million or so. Not sure if the surrounding buildings are part of it or not. A new turf field (only) will cost around $1 million alone.

[formerd3db]

Raider68, sflzman and DBQ1965:

If UMHB has wealthy alumns, it can be done.  Recall that DeVos (who owns the NBA's Orlando Magic) gave Hope much of the $22 million that it cost to construct Hope's DeVos Arena, the NBA style, personalized seating bb and volleyball arena (complete with NBA type suspended electronic scoreboard from the mid ceiling) and that seats over 3,600.  Calvin's new arena seats about 4,000, although Hope has led NCAA Div III attendance the past several years.  Hope's womens bb team actually outdrew Michigan State's women's team for a game when they had over 3,000 for a game.

Anyway, I think UMHB's proposed stadium is awesome as is the reasoning and concept that they state on the article that Pat posted. My only question is...can they attract near 10,000 fans to fill the stadium?  Also, Raider you mention that the cost of synthetic turf is near $1 million.  Although costs have probably gone up in recent years, that might be a little high if one is only going to just put in a field to an already existing stadium (as opposed to having to renovate entirely one's stadium and/or build a new one like some of the DIII schools have had to do).  The cost of the turf is 1/3 less than the old style turf (the latter was about $800,000), although labor installation costs probably drive the final figures up towards the $1 milliion you mention.  Perhaps some of our DIII colleagues here who know more about the costs (and/or have been involved in turf projects for their own schools) might be able to share/enlighten us a little more on this.  Nonethelss, it is neat to see such a project as UMMHB's come about - I hope it goes to fruition.

[Pat Coleman]

I do think it's unrealistic for that stadium to be 10,000 for Division III purposes. However, perhaps they have designs on hosting some Texas high school playoff games, which would require that kind of seating and would be good exposure for the schools.

[sac]

Albion and GRCC have held a SCRIMMAGE every year for several years in a row.

Very competitive and well played controlled scrimmage prior to the season.

GRCC is typcally fast, and has large Linemen.

GRCC would have some very competitive games with any of the MIAA teams.

There are D1/DII caliper players that are in the school, working on becoming Acaadeically Eligiable to play, or get a little size.

ie GRCC

Here's an article that talks a little about GRCC's recruiting
http://thecollegiatelive.com/sports/signing-day-or-not-recruiting-is-in-full-effect-at-grcc/

Just a couple excerpts....emphasis mine

Both out of Mainland High School's 2010 class Davis and Hamm signed National Letters of Intent to four-year universities. Hamm signed a National Letter of Intent to Florida A&M. Davis along with three other players from their class including Ricardo Allen and OJ Ross who were both ranked in the top 50 on Rivals.com, signed to Purdue.


GRCC has received many players through transferring. Last season quarterback James Stallons transferred from University of Wisconsin and this January quarterback Cody Kater transferred to GRCC from University of Cincinnati.

[formerd3db]

I agree with you Pat.  I was going to ask you if you knew anything more about their plans i.e. I assumed that most likely a stadium of that size would be made available by UMHB to high schools for big and/or regional playoff games similar to what is done in other states including yours and our state.  Also, as aueagle mentioned over on the other site, UMHB did have pretty good attendance for home games i.e. I'd say that the approx. 3500 is great for any DIII team and their "big game" draw against H-S of 7700+ is wonderful.  However, aside from St. Johns and perhaps a couple of others, the days of the big DIII stadiums and draws such as when Dayton used to get 9-10,000 per home game after moving to DIII and also the first few years of their D-IAA arfe pretty much gone (other than the Monon Bell, Cortland/Ithaca, etc. as some have previously discussed). 

Nonetheless, the stadium plan looks awesome and I'm sure will be of benefit to the entire school as they mentioned and certainly help them in recruiting for football.

[formerd3db]

sac:

Thanks for the info on GRCC.  Annese has been working on building that program even more (remember when he played at Central MI, then coached at Alma College, Montrose H.S., Ann Arbor Pioneer, then Jenison H.S., then Muskegon H.S. before going to GRCC).  Sounds like the transfers you mentioned need a little work on their grades in order for them to potentially attempt making it "back" to the DI level.  Ironically, both Hamm and Davis mentioned in the article that they were "here for business"...what they believe is the "right" business I can guarantee you is not what others consider it to be and that is somewhat of a pity.  But...that's today's mind-set for some, even if it is a bit misguided in a sense.

Anyway, again, appreciate the info.

[Raider 68]

I agree with you Pat.  I was going to ask you if you knew anything more about their plans i.e. I assumed that most likely a stadium of that size would be made available by UMHB to high schools for big and/or regional playoff games similar to what is done in other states including yours and our state.  Also, as aueagle mentioned over on the other site, UMHB did have pretty good attendance for home games i.e. I'd say that the approx. 3500 is great for any DIII team and their "big game" draw against H-S of 7700+ is wonderful.  However, aside from St. Johns and perhaps a couple of others, the days of the big DIII stadiums and draws such as when Dayton used to get 9-10,000 per home game after moving to DIII and also the first few years of their D-IAA arfe pretty much gone (other than the Monon Bell, Cortland/Ithaca, etc. as some have previously discussed). 

Nonetheless, the stadium plan looks awesome and I'm sure will be of benefit to the entire school as they mentioned and certainly help them in recruiting for football.

Formerd3db, Pat,

Your posts regarding the new proposed UMHB stadium with a capacity of 10,000 fans
Here are the atttendance figures for the last 10 years including playoffs:

2010- 3,533, 2009 - 3,024, 2008- 3,353, 2007- 2,412, 2006 - 2,586

2005- 3,704, 2004 - 2,983, 2003- 2,349, 2002- 2,197, 2001 - 2,475

Ten year average 2,862. While having their own new stadium may help, the history shows a new facility with less than half full. Maybe a 7,500- 8,000 might be more reasonable! and less costly!

[formerd3db]

Raider68:

Your suggestion does seem more reasonable.  The only aspect I can think of is, again, that they are envisioning the use for other events by various organizations such as high school football games, perhaps soccer, etc.  On the other hand, my guess would be if they received/raised the $ for the current plan (which it appears they are confident in doing so or they wouldn't proceed with the project) that building the stadium to this larger plan will obviously be cheaper in the the longrun as opposed to having to add on later in building it in phases.  Still, I like the design as it gives it the "big time" atmosphere (I might be biased, however, since my father was an architect - helped design the St. Louis Arch and the early preliminary plans for Thomas More's stadium). BTW, thanks for the stats on UMBH's attendence over the last 10 years - very informative and interesting.

[Raider 68]

Raider68:

Your suggestion does seem more reasonable.  The only aspect I can think of is, again, that they are envisioning the use for other events by various organizations such as high school football games, perhaps soccer, etc.  On the other hand, my guess would be if they received/raised the $ for the current plan (which it appears they are confident in doing so or they wouldn't proceed with the project) that building the stadium to this larger plan will obviously be cheaper in the the longrun as opposed to having to add on later in building it in phases.  Still, I like the design as it gives it the "big time" atmosphere (I might be biased, however, since my father was an architect - helped design the St. Louis Arch and the early preliminary plans for Thomas More's stadium). BTW, thanks for the stats on UMBH's attendence over the last 10 years - very informative and interesting.

Formerd3bd,

UMHB officials may know about future utilization of the proposed new stadium, and they know the attendance figures as well. Other playoffs for HS games are a condideration.  The incremental costs for additional seating could be of little concern when they are starting from scatch to build it!

[formerd3db]

You are probably right about that Raider68 (you have far more of a business mind than I do! ).

On re-visiting another subject i.e. that of open dates for Alma College, I checked out Concordia University-Ann Arbor's and Siena Heights Univesity's football websites.  I see where Concordia has an "open" date Oct 1st and their first game is not until Sept 10th.  Neither school has posted their full 2011 schedules (SH has nothing posted in the schedule section and Concordia's is obviously not filled yet as mentioned).  As both schools are aspiring to be the premier NAIA football program in this region, and promoting that quite heavily i.e. advertising that quite verbally on their websites, and as neither have full schedules yet, but have played and/or are playing college JV and club collegiate teams, I can't understand why they would not then want to schedule someone like Alma.  Concordia played Kalamazoo College in its pre-season scrimmage this past fall 2010 (the first year for Concordia).  I realize that it takes time to improve and implement the program as far as playing teams (heck, way back in my days at Hope, we beat Grand Valley State in scrimmages - wouldn't happen today though as we all know ), nonetheless, if you want to get better/be the best as both of these schools are hyping (no disrespect to Coach Lyall or SH Head Coach), then there is no reason not to play some of the DIII schools, at least to start out with and then even later on, I see no harm in playing them in an occasional non-conference game if necessary.  On the other hand, perhaps there are other factors behing this, such as just no mutual dates open.  Anyway, just MO.

BTW, I didn't realize that the University of Michigan-Flint had a club collegiate football team (and that is my original hometown among some other "ties" to that school ).  Marquette University (yes, that DI school) has a club collegiate football team with aspirations by those involved in enventually having that re-instated as the school as a varsity sport.  Interesting peice of trivia I though you guys might like to know- if you didn't already.

[sflzman]

the reason told to me about Siena Heights is that their coach used to coach at adrian (right ) and apparently we rubbed it in their face a little too much a couple years in a row and now the guy won't play us.

Here is concordia's schedule:

*    3        vs.    University of Saint Francis               
*    10        @    Trinity International University               
*    17        @    Quincy University               
*    24        vs.    University of Saint Francis               
October
*    1        vs.    Malone College               
   8        vs.    Robert Morris College               
*    15        @    Taylor University               
*    22        vs.    Marian College               
*    29        vs.    Saint Xavier University               
November
*    5        @    Walsh University               
   12        @    Iowa Wesleyan College

[formerd3db]

sflzman:

Well, that's kind of ridiculous.  I know Coach Lyall and he is a good guy.  However, regardless if that is the case, all the more reason he should want to play you guys and "come back to kick the crap out of Alma".  Regardless, it looks like their schedule is now full.  I do not doubt that Concordia-AA's schedule will be full this year, yet as I mentioned, this past fall in 2010 their inaguaral year, they played several JV college teams, club teams and Robert Morris (a D-IAA, uh, I mean an FCS non-scholarship team).

[sflzman]

I know what you mean. I agree with you, if I was a coach it'd only be more motivation for me to come back and run it up right back at them, especially considering we may be heading into another average year (defense will be good, but no running game, and the WR spot is not deep).

And yeah, I'm not saying that is a true reason, it's just what I was told. I can only "report" what I was told.

[Raider 68]

Are night games in the MIAA very popular?

[Joe Wally]

Ran into several Hope alums while vacationing on Tybee Island this week.  We gave eachother grief about football games long past as well as AL central games (chi sox v tigers) yet to come

Good Times