FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ThunderHead]

formerD3er,

I'm glad you adhere to Matthew 6:14-15 I do too, it's good stuff. I don't judge football coaches because there is a LOT that we don't know about as general fans. I respect Coach D for how he has defended his players, if they were my son's that got into that, I would hope that his coach would publicly standup for him. Privately I think he takes care of things, and I love the fact he doesn't bend to media pressure or alumni pressure to "do the right thing" when so often they don't know the full story.

I think the greatest thing you ask a coach when your kids commits to a program, is what kind of man are you going to shape him into? Will you help him during the tough times? There are enough people throwing rocks at everything student athletes do, and sadly it's the many wonderful Christian's in the midwest chucking those rocks like Pharisees at an old testament stoning.  But, I agree, we can leave our opinions on this alone for now. 

I agree Coach Simrell got a raw deal at Toledo, but I mainly blame that on the AD. He was fairly gutless during that time period, and ultimately pulled the trigger on a good coach who had done well. While you can dispute a lot of thing Nick Saban does, he has a very solid record and 90% of the guys I've talked to that have played for Nick Saban love the man. So - sometimes these coaches get raw deals based on a slanted media view presented, and we all know Saban and the media didn't get along worth a hill beans. But ultimately a coach leaves his legacy with his player, and the guys I know have been effected in a good way by Coach Saban.

Along those lines I actually also know several guys who played for Kelly at Cinny, and a few current guys at ND. Sadly none of them like him. I guess in some ways some guys are just all about them. But people change, maybe he will do.

SO formerD3er, what's up with the Hope spring game? How are the boys looking? Better then .500? A few years ago they gave us ALL we could handle.

Go TRINE!!!!

[sflzman]

sflzman:

Thanks for the additional comments and logos!  Yes, those two are good also.  Wasn't sure if you know this, however, I was involved in assisting in the design of the 100th year football Centennial Celebration logo at Alma.

Wow, I didn't know that - that's pretty cool!

I was looking for historical helmets on the helmet project website, but both Alma and Hope have some major gaps!

[sac]

Uncle Rico - Glad our Trine brotherhood super seeds everything, but I would caution you to spend to much time looking at the "star" system. I mean after all, U of M always out recruits MSU on a national level, yet MSU had dominated U of M the last few years with instate recruits, and that trend carried over into this class as well. IMO it's all about how a guy develops within a system, not how many "stars" he has coming into it.

Quite simply, msu can't recuit outside the state of Michigan like U of M can.  msu is giving scholarships to "local" kids while Michigan can get kids from across the US.  Hopefully UM can use them is a system that better performs in the Big 10 than Rich Rod did.  I think RR focused too much on his offense and neglected the defense.  Hoke won't make that same mistake.

State's roster has 88 players on it, 34 from out of state

Michigan's roster has 98 players on it, 62 from out of state.


I would argue RR's defensive problem was A) hiring people that weren't very good coaches on defense and B) forcing those coaches to coach systems they had never coached before when things didn't go the way he wanted them  (ie changing to the 3-3-5 in the middle of the damn season).  Also Greg Robinson was a so-so coach who cratered a decent Syracuse program in 4 short years.  Robinson came to UM with basically 2 good years on his resume, he rolled the dice on a desperate hire and it ultimately cost him his job.

I think RR recruited only o.k. but below UM past standards on D side,.....but reality is even if Carr had stayed or someone other than RR was hired the defense would have been bad in 2008 and probably 2009.

UM's recruiting problems on defense started way before RR arrived in Ann Arbor.

[Raider 68]

With the posts on out-of-state althletes going to UM and MSU, I wonder how many out-of-state athletes on a percetnage basis attend the MIAA schools?

[ThunderHead]

With the posts on out-of-state althletes going to UM and MSU, I wonder how many out-of-state athletes on a percetnage basis attend the MIAA schools?

I think it depends a lot on how much opportunity the school can create within the football program for the athlete to develop, if they attend the school for football reasons. Winning obviously always helps, but to really get out-of-state "recruits" you have to have things other schools within that athletes state don't have, like better facilities, bigger crowds, a chance to win at a high level.

I think UW Whitewater is a D3 school that does a great job landing kids from around the upper norther midwest, along with landing transfers from bigger schools. I think it will only be a matter of time before we start landing good transfers at Trine. A few years ago that wouldn't be possible, but now with new facilities and supportive crowds, coupled with a 29-1 season three season record, and a really good coaching staff, it wouldn't surprise me if Coach Land goes after some kids he couldn't have gotten a whiff at a few years ago.

[sac]

With the posts on out-of-state althletes going to UM and MSU, I wonder how many out-of-state athletes on a percetnage basis attend the MIAA schools?

Hope has 7 out of state kids from its returning roster of 64.   Ohio, Illinois, Arizona and New Jersey represented.

Albion has 2
Adrian has 11
Alma has 2
Olivet has 0
Kalamazoo has 3
Trine has over 60 on a roster over 100
Calvin has 0 out of state, and 0 in-state


Trine having the most doesn't surprise me given their proximity to Michigan and Ohio and of course being formerly known as Tri-State, the total number does surprise me a little along with its roster size.

I thought Adrian might have more considering how close they are to Ohio, but 11 would be around 10%

[ThunderHead]

Ok - great facts SAC.

I just think Trine will go after transfers from bigger schools. That's kinda the direction I think Coach Land will take it.

Go Trine!

[formerd3db]

Ok - great facts SAC.

I just think Trine will go after transfers from bigger schools. That's kinda the direction I think Coach Land will take it.

Go Trine!

That's assuming those "big" transfers will qualify academically to be accepted to the school.  Unfortunately, not everyone does.  It also depends on what type of player (profile) a school is desirous of recruiting.

Sac:
As ThunderHead mentioned, good job in perusing our pre-season roster.  I will say, though, that I am quite surprised at the lower number of the roster so far.  While we all know there is much attrition in many of the underclassmen, particularly those who don't get much, if any P.T. at the varsity level (i.e. the J. V. players, freshman and some sophs), still, the overall numbers are down from what they were, say, 4 or 5 years ago. We had upwards of 160 players reporting for a stretch, however, last year was down to about 120.  There are obviously a number of factors involved in that (most of which we all have discussed here in the past).  

BTW, with the quarterly President's Newsletter from Hope just out, the totals for this upcoming year's cost at Hope will be $35,000 per year (includes R&B, Tuition, Activity Fee, etc.).  I had mentioned in the past that it was a little higher (heck, I should know having just paid this i.e. still paying this off for our daughters of recent ) it is in reality well-over $40,000 per year and could be even close to $44,000 in some cases (it is not hard for some of these "extra costs" to add up that far, albeit some are, admittedly, by choice). Still, a real bargin compared to some of the other DIII schools in Ohio, for example.      

[sflzman]

With the posts on out-of-state althletes going to UM and MSU, I wonder how many out-of-state athletes on a percetnage basis attend the MIAA schools?

Hope has 7 out of state kids from its returning roster of 64.   Ohio, Illinois, Arizona and New Jersey represented.

Albion has 2
Adrian has 11
Alma has 2
Olivet has 0
Kalamazoo has 3
Trine has over 60 on a roster over 100
Calvin has 0 out of state, and 0 in-state


Trine having the most doesn't surprise me given their proximity to Michigan and Ohio and of course being formerly known as Tri-State, the total number does surprise me a little along with its roster size.

I thought Adrian might have more considering how close they are to Ohio, but 11 would be around 10%

Part of the reason for this is, again, location. If you're Alma for example, how are you going to compete geographically with Trine, or Adrian for kids in Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, even parts of Ontario (not necessarilly for football)......and even recruiting in southern Michigan is hard, because then you're competing with 6 schools, plus now the NAIA ones that are all closer to you.

But the big thing for me is that Trine is a dream location. Being that close to Indy, Chicago, Cincy, even Detroit, Kzoo, and Grand Rapids are all in reach for Trine (and I'm sure I'm missing some bigger targets in Ohio as well)

I also agree with you that I would have thought Adrian to have more, especially with their recent sucess

[sac]

Hope's out of state student athlete numbers in all sports have always seemed low to me when compared to actual composition of the student body.  But that may not necessarily be the reality.

I know basketball has had precious few out of state athletes.

[ThunderHead]

I still think it has a lot to do with facilities and atmosphere, at least for football. Kids always want to play where the lights are bright, the crowds are big, and the football is top notch.

While I think that private education is outrageously high, I understand - to an extent, why that is. And yet I would still value an OSU, MSU, PSU, or Wisconsin degree with as much consideration as one from any MIAA school. So I kinda think some people who act like $$$ = prestige, just kinda have their head in the sand sometimes.

Go Trine!

ps - on an unrelated topic, is there any reason that this message board operates as one big string of responses? I've never seen a board formated this way. Most have areas for "new topics" and such, within an area, ei MIAA. Just a question.

[sflzman]

I still think it has a lot to do with facilities and atmosphere, at least for football. Kids always want to play where the lights are bright, the crowds are big, and the football is top notch.

While I think that private education is outrageously high, I understand - to an extent, why that is. And yet I would still value an OSU, MSU, PSU, or Wisconsin degree with as much consideration as one from any MIAA school. So I kinda think some people who act like $$$ = prestige, just kinda have their head in the sand sometimes.

Go Trine!

ps - on an unrelated topic, is there any reason that this message board operates as one big string of responses? I've never seen a board formated this way. Most have areas for "new topics" and such, within an area, ei MIAA. Just a question.

Good question!

I'm sure that Pat Coleman may have ur answer, so PM'ing him may get your question solved.

I'd never really thought of it, but what you say does make me wonder.....

[Raider 68]

I still think it has a lot to do with facilities and atmosphere, at least for football. Kids always want to play where the lights are bright, the crowds are big, and the football is top notch.

While I think that private education is outrageously high, I understand - to an extent, why that is. And yet I would still value an OSU, MSU, PSU, or Wisconsin degree with as much consideration as one from any MIAA school. So I kinda think some people who act like $$$ = prestige, just kinda have their head in the sand sometimes.

Go Trine!

ps - on an unrelated topic, is there any reason that this message board operates as one big string of responses? I've never seen a board formated this way. Most have areas for "new topics" and such, within an area, ei MIAA. Just a question.

Thunderhead,

I think you will see "Topics" from D3football during the season, the offseason discussions are whatever the posters raise as a subject to discuss.IMHO

[Raider 68]

The out-of-state MIAA number of athletes do really surprize me. I would have thought it would be in the area of 10-15%, but the results are very low. Trine's location helps them along with a great record for the last 3 yrs.!

sac,

Thanks for the info!

[sac]

Angola to

Grand Rapids 136 mi
Detroit 143 mi
Toledo 84 mi
Chicago 171 mi
Cleveland 184
Columbus 199
Indianapolis 161 mi

Trine is around a 3 hour drive from 5 pretty big population areas