FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[02 Warhawk]

Even looking at the WIAC pickems, I'm surprised on the number of people that picked UWRF to win this game. I can't tell if they are being WIAC homers, or if they truly believe UWRF is the better team.

I think Trine wins this one by a couple of TDs, especially being at Angola.

[sflzman]

Raider, I agree. If UWRF defeats Trine like I think they will, then it will really show that Adrian, Albion, and Alma will have a chance to win the conference.

Has Trine really declined in one season to a point that you feel the preseason predicted last place team in the WIAC will defeat them? And on the road with a new coach, for that matter?  That  would be a massive drop in a very short period of time; not the kind of result a supposed team on the rise finds themselves going through. Just curious, are your feelings based solely on Trine stumbling so far this year or do you think River Falls is that much improved from the team Trine beat rather handily last year, or a combination of the two? Does it all come down to Trine not being able to replace their outstanding QB? My apologies if you've posted about this previously. 

My pick was made considering the fact of how close and how many points have been given up against two not very good teams in Manchester and Bluffton

[sac]

In the last four seasons the MIAA has one cumulative win vs the WIAC......last year's Trine victory.  The record is something like 1-7, many of them not really close.

[ThunderHead]

I picked Trine in the pickem, but wouldn't be at all shocked with a WRF win.

If Trine win's it may be by a few points, and I don't see it being a a big win by either team.

[Uncle Rico]

I agree with Boya's comment about home field advantage, and it should not be dismissed casually.  Of course every team wants to win at home, but Trine has done it.  Wanting to do it and actually doing it are two different things.  Trine has very good turnouts for their games (I believe top 10 in the nation) and having attended more than a couple home games I can speak from experience when I say it is a factor that works for Coach Land and Trine.

I think that people might mistake a lack of domination in these pre-season (aka non-conference) games as a sign of total weakness and failure.  I see it as a learning period with a number of new starters learning the system.  I also see it as a learning period for the coaches, evaluating who they have and where they need to be.  If someone says I am drinking the blue gatorade, that is fine...I will order it by the gallon.    Because the people selling it have shown they can do it.  The coaches have a track record of making a winning program from the ground up, and I believe they have more overall talent than the year they won their first MIAA championship.  I'll be more concerned when the conference schedule starts.  For now, continue working on the machine to get it running full speed.

[sac]

bizarre game, worth the read

http://rivals.yahoo.com/highschool/blog/prep_rally/post/Arkansas-power-leads-team-29-0-before-it-can-tou?urn=highschool-wp5870

[ThunderHead]

Uncle Rico, I don't disagree with what you're saying.

My point was that I don't think any coach under values their home field. And wanting to win at home is the start of actually winning at home. Just because a team doesn't win at home, doesn't mean that team "want's" it less. Trine's attendance has been awesome, however if I remember correctly, I think they won even before people started showing up for Trine games and it was a "popular" thing to do in Angola.

And I don't think a lack of domination in the pre-season is a sign of weakness, however I do believe strength of schedule is something to consider. These are teams that should be dominated in most aspects. And to say they have been, isn't accurate either. Especially with a ground game averaging 1.83 yards per carry on 60 attempts through two games.

I will fully help you out though Uncle Rico - considered your gallon of the below ordered.  I'm just not quite ready to make that order yet myself.

[Uncle Rico]

I remember the first season under Coach Land, at Shive Field when it was still grass.  Even then the crowds seemed large.  Bigger than what I was seeing at other sites.  I felt there was a lot of enthusiasm right from the start.  As a parent, we were caught up in the energy / passion of what he brought. 

Trine only beat Manchester 16-14 in 2009, at Manchester, when Trine went 6-0 in the MIAA.  I just don't put a whole lot of stock into the first couple of games, as long as they are ready by the time conference play begins. 

My coaching experience is limited to simply youth football (which is an experience in itself!  ) but how much of the running game struggles are the result of opponents stacking the defense to stop the run and daring the new QB to pass?  Just wondering out loud.  If I were Bluffton that is what I would have done based on what I saw at Manchester.  Hopefully the success that Hargraves had will keep the confidence up, and a good passing performance might open the run up.  I still have to believe that with an All Conference back like Biller in there the run should be more of a threat.  I agree I would like to see more of that, but maybe the coaches already know what they have there and don't feel the need to show it.  I just don't know....

I did not notice this until someone else pointed it out that Trine was substituting a fair amount on defense in the second half of the Bluffton game.  Perhaps that contributed to a slight shift in momentum for Bluffton.  Also, with the early big lead, I have to think that Trine might have experimented around a little more in their personel and play calling.  Sitting in the stands, I don't think most of us were too worried about a comeback.

Keep that gallon ordered...I like to keep my glass half full and not half empty!      

[ThunderHead]

Uncle Rico,

I see what you're saying. But I don't think the defensive personal had to much to do with Bluffton's success. The kid went 14-15 and accounted for 3 scores as a QB in the second half. All said, had he played the entire game, I think things would have been different. Bluffton, for whatever reason, never challenged the secondary in the 1st half despite success to the shallow flats and interior seams.

This all said, I'm surprised by Billers performance thus far, and I do agree team's stack the box, as well they should against Trine. I think a good secondary will allow good teams to be fairly successful against Trine with that philosophy. Thus far, they haven't seen a team with a good secondary yet. I think WRF may provide that first test.

And if you coached youth football, much credit to you.  I hear youth parents are much worse then their college counterparts. And Uncle Rico - you definitely strike me as a "glass half full" kind of guy. 

[formerd3db]

Uncle Rico, ThunderHead and BOYA:

Good comments.  It will be interesting to see how Trine does in this game.  From my recollections, WRF is a tricky team to figure out.  Despite their not so good record in past years,  I remember a couple of times some years back, they were not supposed to be very good, but kicked the tar out of us (when I was associated with another team ).  Anyway, as you and Raider68 have mentioned, this weekend will be a further indication as to how our MIAA teams might fare for the season, even though the league race will most likely be close as often happens and despite Trine having beaten up on the rest of us the past 4 years

Also, ThunderHead and Uncle Rico, indeed, coaching at the different levels has become a somewhat tough job when it comes to parents.  I commend you Uncle Rico in coaching youth football - I have always wanted to do that and will some day, however, just haven't had the time to do it.  I've always thought having a positive influence on kids that age will be a satisfying experience personally, aside from the fact that you are helping those kids as well as the actual fun in teaching those "little guys".  However, the parents are a different story and, that includes college parents of players as well, as ThunderHead and I know.  While parents obvious are proud of their sons (and should be) it never ceases to amaze me how out of context and reality some parents can be about their son's talent level, expectations and, in reality, what is really important.  Some parents are way-out-of-line and over-the-top in that regard and, I that is no different for some parents whether they are at the DIII level or DI level as I'm sure ThunderHead can attest.  I know that at the DIII level from my coaching experience and other experiences at that level, not only the parents, but even some of the players have attitudes that are completely unacceptable and respond to coaches in most inappropriate ways and how you and I would have never done so "back in our day".  I was totally taken "aback" with some of that and it is a sad reflection of how some react in today's society (a fault that can be attributed to the parents sadly).  However, I am not saying that all players and parents are like that because they obviously are not and I've seen many wonderful parents and players who have their priorities intack and are nothing but the best and great people to know and players to coach in all aspects (manners, respect, cooperation, etc., etc. yet still competitive in the appropriate ways).  So anyway, sorry for this perhaps rambling off topic commentary, yet I guess my thoughts on this were sparked by your mention of coaching youth football; again, I want to do that someday and will, although I'm not looking forward to having to deal with some parents who will undoubtably have totally unrealistic expectations about their sons and/or simply be "just complainers".  However,...that just comes with the job/territory. 

Anyway,, good luck to everyone's teams tomorrow.  I'm hoping the weather will be as nice as it was for last weekend's games.  Hope plays at home again tomorrow against CCIW Millikin in the annual Cancer benefit game.  We'll be wearing special orange jerseys, which will be a different experience for a Hope team (although I will say that I think those will be a better sight as far as color than the purple ones we had last year ).  Regardless, it obviously is a worthy cause.     

[ThunderHead]

formerd3db,

Good post, and I think what Hope does with the game as a cancer benefit is an expectational thing. I hope you draw well.

Regarding parents, I don't have any experience at the D3 level, but at the D2 and D1 level, the parents are to an extent a part of the process. I understand a parents view-point, most of the time the kids are real with their parents on how they really feel about school, class, playing time, ect, and as kids they won't approach the coaching staff early on.

So sometimes a mother and father hear a view-point from their child that they feel needs to be defended. I have no issue with this, and most of the time, it's great to hear what's really going on with the kid. Other times a parent has seen all the sacrifice a kid has put into the sport, and they may not feel like we are treating him fairly. If that's the case, I also have no problem hearing from mom or dad. After all, they know their kid the best and have a tremendous amount of vested interest in him.

As such, it's no secret that as coaches we recruit the parents as well or more so then the athlete, so if a kids in a situation he hates, often the parents feel like somehow they made a mistake too, and should have known better. They perhaps "signed off" on us as a staff or the school itself, and now they're dealing with a son who feels like he's made the wrong choice, so it's only natural for them to feel that way too. Thus, a call to the coaches or a face to face meeting. For a coach not to see the value in a parents thoughts (within reason, as 95% of them are), or to "blow off parents" is pure arrogance in my opinion. Most parents are doing what's right by their kid as best they know. I can't blame them for that.

This all said, by the time a kids a sophomore he generally feels comfortable enough with the school, his team mates, and the coaching staff to vent his frustration directly to us. And that's a sign of both comfortableness and maturity.

At least the D1 level, it's rare for us to disagree with parents on a kids talent level or to think a kid is less talented then originally evaluated.  That's not to say guys always pan out as we all know, some - for for whatever reason aren't successful, but generally if they're on a full ride, they were thought of very highly from a talent standpoint. As a position coach, you don't get many "misses". 98% of the time the issue is figuring out how to get a kid to compete at the level he is capable of.

Perhaps the biggest difference between the college level and the youth level is this; at the college level it's often the case that the kid has incredibly high expectations himself. At 19 and 20, he's not playing because dad or mom is making him play. He's playing because he wants to compete at the highest of level.

Now youth football coaches - they're the true champions. They deal with parents who have insane expectations AND the power to force their kids play, leaving the coaches with unmotivated kids. To coach a kid who wants to be there is hard enough, to coach a kid who doesn't...

Like I said, props to you Uncle Rico and the rest of you who coach youth ball, and I'm sure formerd3er,  you'll make a great youth coach someday.

[formerd3db]

ThunderHead:

Allow me to return the compliment - you made an excellent post.  Thanks for sharing your insight and opinions from you own coaching experience.  I agree with what you say.  I would only add that (and I'm sure you know this as well) at the DI and DII level as well there are times when a kid is overlooked i.e. someone not recruited (or if they were, not given much of a priority) who really are the type who will eventually succeed at that level IF they are given the chance.  Of course, some would call those overachievers, however, IMO, that is not always the case.  They are simply players who, for whatever reason, did not get the limelight attention, yet are just as good as some of their fellow teammates who get the higher attention and thus, more recruited. 

One other aspect that I was attempting to allude to with the "attitude" aspect is simply this...when I coached in college, one of the aspects that really was something I disliked was the "disrespect" attitude.  By that I mean, when you and I played, if a coach, or trainer or team doc, etc.,etc. told you/or asked you to do something, you did it.  In today's society, it is unfortunate that many players (not all, of course) will "face you" and display outright disrespect whether it be by action, word, or whatever.  In my book, that is completely unacceptable and unfortunatley, there are many parents who support their kids even when they are wrong (that is naturally perhaps as you have excellently explained), but also in that sometimes (again not all) the coaching staff does not take the apppropriate steps to, well...let's say hold the player accountable for such behavior, perhaps because he is one of the top players.  Now, before you jump on me for this, I will say that is rare as most head coaches (and their staff) will not put up with this, however, I have seen this happen and heard from many sources that it occasionally happens.  It is only natural, but thankfully, less common.  Anyway, thanks for your perspective.

[Uncle Rico]

I coached youth for a number of years, and later served as president of our youth program.  I could probably write a book about it but will spare everyone the details.  It is all that you all have mentioned and more.  If done right, it is the most rewarding experience you can have, helping to foster a love of the game in these kids right from the beginning.  A bad coach can ruin a kids football experience and turn them away forever.  I think that is true in all youth sports and I do not think enough attention is given by many youth organizations towards promoting the development of youth coaches.

[ThunderHead]

FormerD3er,

I completely agree with your thoughts on kids being "overlooked". Most of the time, at least at the D1 level, that's by complete accident and sometimes ignorance. No one likes to be labeled the guy that overlooked Flacco, Farve, Rice, or Rothelsburger.

I personally think there are plenty of kids that are getting over looked right now on several rosters at all three levels of NCAA football. And so often, when a kid is being over looked, he goes to his parents, especially early on. I remember getting call from an uncle of an athlete who was #4 on my depth chart at his boundary corner position. His uncle told me he felt I wasn't giving him the opportunity to compete against the first team. While my pride told me the uncle didn't know what he was talking about, my anger made me put the kid out there against our best wide-out (now in the NFL) about 3 hours later in practice. In my mind I thought "I'll show this kid exactly why he's number 4".

Well wouldn't you know it, the kid could flat out play, he went from the #4 to the #2 at the boundary corner over night, then Saturday our #1 came down wrong on his ankle, and all of a sudden the kids in the game. He ended it with 2 ints and 6 tackles, he never saw the bench again.

I learned a valuable lesson that week, the kid wasn't reaching his potential because he thought I had already threw him to the wind. In part he was right, and had it not been for his Uncle he might have transferred at the end of the year and I would have lost a great athlete. 

From that point on I took parents, uncles, coaches, whoever the kid was close too, very seriously. My job as a coach was to get the most out of every athlete I had, and if a kid feels I'm being unfair I want him to see what I see, and not be discouraged. I want him to know there is a path that will lead to his success if he's willing to follow it. If it takes someone else telling me "hey my kids not happy coach" that gives me an avenue to get past the mask of "everything's fine". I don't expect a 19-20 year old kid to be as mature as a 26-27 year old who has experience dealing with full time coaches. Some of the best conversations I had with guys I've coached have stared with "so I hear you're not real happy with me and the situation here...."

Regarding respect, I often think that's a tone that's set by the head coach. I've worked for guys that players simply didn't respect, and because they didn't respect the head coach, they had trouble respecting us as assistants. At the same time I've seen head coaches who run a tight ship, and 9 out of 10 times the respect from athletes carried over to the assistants, trainers, doctors, ect... They just thought "this must be how it's suppose to be"

But in the end it's all about the kid and how he matures through his college years. Entitlement versus privileged is something some kids have yet to understand. Generally I only had issues with the kids who felt they were good enough to not work hard. I always loved a guy who wasn't great, but had a chip. It's with those kind of guys championship teams are built on.  I love the scrappers.

Uncle Rico

I agree with you completely regarding your last line. The reality is not even most high school coaches really know how to "coach a kid up" to the level the kid wants to play. It's so important they're taught the correct fundamentals at an early age. Whatever you tell that 10 year old to do, he will do repetitively. If it's incorrect, you've done more harm then good. I don't think any youth coach wants that and educating them is the first step.

At every program I've been at the doors especially have been open to youth coaches. To any youth coach out there, during the off season, I highly recommend you send out a few emails to local D1, D2 and D3 programs, you might be incredibly surprised at the response you get. As far as the material I have, don't hesitate to PM me if you need too. Over the years I've had opportunity to collect a lot of good material, I'd be happy to pass it along to those of you still inspiring people on the field. 

[Raider 68]

I am pulling for Trine, but it will a close good game, IMHO!