FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[rome]

HINT to MIAA teams looking to get to the next level

subscribe to HUDL...it will allow you to get more film and scout more players than ever before...

Recruiting is the bedrock of success....when Albion own the conference in the 90s it was all about getting every kid that was just a hair below DII level and having 100+ rosters full of talent...

Adrian has adopted the big roster model--retention seems to be an issue...

We will see who will make the next big step in getting numbers and talent to their roster...

[formerd3db]

rome:

Getting the big roster numbers sometimes works, sometimes not, for various reasons.  For schools like Adrian and Olivet, recruiting large incoming football classes is one of the ways in attempting to help enrollment at those schools, aside from the obvious objectives of trying to improve the football programs and/or keep them towards "that next level".  However, for schools like Hope and Albion, they do not have an "enrollment problem", hence, getting those big numbers, is in a sense, not the priority.  Mount Union has had the "model" for that obviously, and as you mention, it worked for Albion in the '90's.  However, I doubt that we'll see this again in the MIAA because of the DII competition (and now some of the NAIA schools) for recruits as we've discussed here several times.  The MIAA schools are just not going to get those potential players anymore because of the scholarships and the high cost of the DIII MIAA schools (and also just how much the MIAA schools are willing to work out for the athletes as far as academic and need based aid - there are differences in the financial aid packages among the various colleges).  Also, while having the large rosters helps maintain having enough "bodies" (for both varsity and the JV programs - albeit the latter exists because of the high numbers), some of the coaching staffs will tell that it is just not managable in reality from a coaching standpoint.

So, IMO, I doubt there will be big numbers coming in, other that perhaps for Olivet since they have the new coach and perhaps Adrian.  Of course, when your team wins, there is a huge influx of players who want to go to that school and we've usually seen rosters swell during those times in the past.  However, for now, I still believe that will depend on the economic parameters.  Anyway, that's how I see it.

I wish you and all our MIAA colleagues here a Merry Christmas this weekend.

[Raider 68]

To all the MIAA posters, I wish each of you and your famlies a Merry Christmas!

[formerd3db]

Another sign of the times.  Just great.   So now we have 21 former NFL players sueing the league for damages they allege for subsequent concussion symptoms.  This is egregious - they knew the risks of playing a game like football and no one forced them to choose that career.  I'm sorry, however, I have no sympathy for this kind of "grab bag" for $ and I hope the cases are either thrown out of court and/or they lose.  Apparently, according to the media, they have requested jury trials and I hope that there are decent folk out there who will be serving on those juries (if the cases get that far) that will see this for what it is and do the right thing.  Unless, there is evidence that the team coaches, administrators, athletic training and medical staffs of those NFL teams did something of negligence in the treatment of those players concussions - which I highly doubt is the case and the players would have to prove it unequivically beyond a reasonable doubt AND...if there is such evidence, those players should have addressed this long before now.  However, it has not been reported that they did the latter or that there was any evidence to support that, but rather they are doing this now only because of the recent hype and scrutiny in concussion awareness.  Those aspects are certainly needed, however, those players absolutely bear some personal responsibility for their current situation if they were not honest in reporting (under-reporting) their symptoms when they were playing and/or outright were not truthful about it and just kept playing "the game" at all costs.  Well, they were only slightly right in that it cost them alright, by sacrificing their health in later years if they did that.  This is very sad, however, unfortunately, what our society has become - highly letiginous and all for the sake of $.  Just another reason why I don't like the NFL or professional sports.   Sorry to ruin some pre-Christmas cheer ("bah, hum bug" ), however, this kind of ridiculous "stuff" just upsets me, but...I didn't bring this to the forefront, rather they and the media did by announcing all this today.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Another sign of the times.  Just great.   So now we have 21 former NFL players sueing the league for damages they allege for subsequent concussion symptoms.  This is egregious - they knew the risks of playing a game like football and no one forced them to choose that career.  I'm sorry, however, I have no sympathy for this kind of "grab bag" for $ and I hope the cases are either thrown out of court and/or they lose.  Apparently, according to the media, they have requested jury trials and I hope that there are decent folk out there who will be serving on those juries (if the cases get that far) that will see this for what it is and do the right thing.  Unless, there is evidence that the team coaches, administrators, athletic training and medical staffs of those NFL teams did something of negligence in the treatment of those players concussions - which I highly doubt is the case and the players reawould have to prove it unequivically beyond a reasonable doubt AND...if there is such evidence, those players should have addressed this long before now.  However, it has not been reported that they did the latter or that there was any evidence to support that, but rather they are doing this now only because of the recent hype and scrutiny in concussion awareness.  Those aspects are certainly needed, however, those players absolutely bear some personal responsibility for their current situation if they were not honest in reporting (under-reporting) their symptoms when they were playing and/or outright were not truthful about it and just kept playing "the game" at all costs.  Well, they were only slightly right in that it cost them alright, by sacrificing their health in later years if they did that.  This is very sad, however, unfortunately, what our society has become - highly letiginous and all for the sake of $.  Just another reason why I don't like the NFL or professional sports.   Sorry to ruin some pre-Christmas cheer ("bah, hum bug" ), however, this kind of ridiculous "stuff" just upsets me, but...I didn't bring this to the forefront, rather they and the media did by announcing all this today.

A lawyer could clarify, but I'm pretty sure you are confusing the standard in criminal trials with the 'preponderance of the evidence' standard for civil trials.  If the players' attorneys can convince the juries that the players had a well-founded fear of losing playing time (or even being cut) if they didn't 'man up' and get back in the game (which before the current attention to concussions, seems entirely plausible to me), I'd think they have a good chance of winning.

[formerd3db]

Mr. Ypsi:

I can see that point, but only to a degree.  As far as the attorneys, that "semantics" game is ridiculous, even though I know, like you there is a "difference" between civil and criminal cases as such (a system, which I personally think stinks and is ridiculous, but...no one is going to change that ever and we all know that). At any rate, the players are stupid in this sense, IF it is the case i.e. if they really, truly were worried about their health, they still, then had/have a responsibility to themselves to be truthful about that and even so far as their teammates are concerned.  Was their continued play (with a concussion, even if mild) not only putting themselves at risk, but also their teammates and would that not be considered putting for their best effort?  In one sense, a legit case could be made that they were cheating their teammates and team and the fans in that regard.  Also, if there was that "threat" of being cut, even if they did not report their symptoms, then the training staffs might be liable because they would have either falsified "objective and subjective" exam findings and/or simply "looked the other way".  Neither situation is good.  My point, though, is why are these players doing this now?  If they really truly had concerns, why wait until after several years?  I still believe it is about $ for the most part.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Of course it is primarily about the money - d'oh!   (Though, to be fair, in at least some cases it may be money for medical expenses anticipated, and providing for families in case their life-expectancy or earning power is curtailed.)

I haven't examined the situation at all to see who the players are (and probably wouldn't know enough about them to comment intelligently anyway!), but as NFL football players we can presume they were extremely competitive sorts who would not want to come out anyway.  And (at that time) as young males we can presume they felt indestructible.  Really, now, how many twenty-somethings (especially males) actually consider what effects their actions now may have on their health at age 50+?  (You've seen how many of the drive, and how many of them drink (and how many of them do both simultaneously).

I've sometimes expressed the view to people that if I had just TWO years of NFL (or NBA, etc.) money I could retire and live comfortably the rest of my life.  And that is true, IF I were still 'me'!  But if I were the sort of temperament, etc., of players who actually DO make the NFL or NBA, the odds are high that I would 'blow' (or be fleeced out of) most of it!   So, yeah, it's about the money!

[cave2bens]

Wow - a heavy discussion point during what is deemed "silly season" here in the sub-Sahara!  The lyrics "take what you get and leave the rest" come to mind and I guess it's a monetary equivalent of survival of the fittest. 

Personally, this smacks of the same attitude that is pervasive in my environs with HIV/AIDS.  The risks have been known for years and rather than adjust behaviors accordingly, the advent of anti-retrovirals (and government-paid, lifetime prescriptions - I won't share which governments ) allow for continued, cultural acceptance of harems similar to antelope communities without concern for consequences.   1/4 people are HIV positive in this country of 1.9 million - 1 of every 3 here in the capital.  Achieving a goal (in this case, elimination of disease and related chronic side effects) by enabling, thus sustaining causative factors, seems counterproductive to my simple mindedness.
 
While off-topic versus "brain-injury," risks are risks regardless of career or life choices.  At some point, will education and common sense be adhered to, and personal responsibility and accountability become a norm?

Rant over - to All, "Geseende Kersfees en 'n voorspoedige Nuwe Jaar.  Gesondheit!" from Botswana.  Safe Holidays to Everyone.

 

[formerd3db]

Mr. Ypsi and cave2bens:

Excellent posts, gentlemen.  Mr. Ypsi, yes, most young guys are like you describe.  However, I do know that "back in my day", there were many of us (including myself) who were not like that; for example, when someone told me to do something i.e. like the trainer, the team doc, one of my coaches, etc., etc., I did it.  I didn't sit there and make excuses, carry on if I didn't like what they were telling me even though I wanted to continue playing, etc. (i.e. like coming out of a game when slightly injured - concussion, etc.).  Yeah, I wasn't thinking about my health/life would be 25 years later at that time, however, I adhered to the authorities and the rules.  Of course, that doesn't always happen today and players will "face you" without blinking an eye, etc.  Overall, the way I responded, is just the way I was brought up by my parents, of which I am now very, very thankful for.  Also, I am like you in that I've expressed that same aspect about having just two years, or even one years, of that kind of $.  However, the difference between today's (not all, but a great majority) players and you/me, is that we have been taught by wonderful parents and brought up to know what the real priorities should be.

And...cave2 throws the "TD pass" here because he is right about the etiology of the problem.  It's education, mentoring, etc., etc., to change the attitudes and behavior.  Unfortunately, in many, many places (especially big time college football) that just doesn't happen even today and that is sad.  As such, this current mentality will continue for who knows how long, which makes me melencholy.

Someday, these players will find out that the $ doesn't make one d___ aspect of difference at all and I would bet you (if I were a betting man , which I am not) that they will be sorry then.

Anyway, I will get off this topic now.  It was just that it struck my "craw" when this story broke in the media yesterday.  So we'll go on to much more pleasant topics now, especially since it is Christmas Eve.  Merry Christmas to you both and enjoy your weekends.

Your friend,
formerd3db

[DBQ1965]

Merry Christmas to all the MIAA fans on here ... from an IIAC backer in Grand Rapids.

[hazzben]

From the Grand Rapids Press today ... the next step in a Calvin College football program.

http://www.mlive.com/smallcolleges/grandrapids/index.ssf/2011/12/calvin_college_will_weigh_posi.html

It will be interesting to see what happens.  One aspect that I simply cannot understand is the reluctance of the faculty at Calvin to support this.  There is absolutely no reason whatsoever, none that they could legitimately put forth, that football would be a detriment to the college.  It obviously has not hurt Hope College in the educational aspects at all in over 100+ years.  Furthermore, Calvin can raise the $ to cover the costs of starting, maintaining the program and upgrading their facilities.  I do not doubt for one minute that they will not be able to raise that kind of $ including donors.  Besides, the Christian Reformed high schools have sustained sucessful football programs for years and I have yet to see any evidence whatsoever that has been presented by anyone (let alone Calvin College faculty) that can prove those programs have been a detriment to the educational mission and purpose of higher education at those schools; again, that would just not happen either at Calvin College.  For faculty to say otherwise, is simply being disingenuous.  I wouldn't believe them for a second because we all know that it can be done and in the right way and the right purpose.  If this proposal for Calvin does not go through, it will simply be because many of those people are football haters and they subscribe to the very misguied "Swarthemore Debacle".  And that will be very sad. Just my opinion.

I sometimes wonder if some of this hesitancy isn't just a weird way of Calvin showing how they are different (and in their minds somehow superior to) Hope. We don't play that barbaric sport.

We chatted about this earlier this year, but that mentality was all over NW Iowa for decades. Dordt finally caved when they couldn't stem the tide of Christian school young men attending Northwestern so they could continue their careers.

Oh course, that 3rd question the AD mentions at the end of the article is certainly a big part of the conversation. We Reformed types can be awfully prickly about our pride. The CRC/RCA rivalries go deep and cross many family lines. No one likes losing, but losing to your dutch cousins is worse than not playing at all. The question of whether Calvin can compete with Hope will be no small part of this equation. It'll help that they aren't competing against a tradition as established as Northwestern is in Iowa (that's not meant to be a knock on Hope at all). If Calvin is willing to swallow their pride in the short run (because they will certainly get the short end of the stick with Hope initially) they've got the resources to be competitive. Adding football to the rivalry will only make it more bitter...and hence better.

[formerd3db]

hazzben:

I think that is sad, but true (in fact, I know it is because I have talked with some people who have C.C. "behind the scenes" connections who have confidentially confirmed that some people there, indeed, believe that way).  However, IMO, again, that kind of thinking is absurd.  I don't believe for a second that Calvin would not be able to field a very good and competitive program (I won't reiterate all my reasons here because, as you said, many people here, including you and me, have discussed those various opinions in the past).  In fact, I would go so far as to say that the recruiting competition among Calvin and Hope in the immediate "greater region" Grand Rapids and West Michigan would be very intense.  Also, since Calvin has been losing enrollment to some degree in the most recent years, I can't imagine that adding football would not help that.  Again, that has been proven time and time again among the colleges and universities that have added football programs in recent years, despite the tough economic times that they all face collectively.  IMO, the bottom line is this...if Calvin is going to add football, they need to do it now as this is the time or they will never do it.  I have stronger opinions on this, however, I will be nice and refrain from verbalizing those here. .  Also, I could be wrong, yet, I would be shocked if they ever added it later on if they don't do it now.  I hope they make the right decision and decide to add football.  Thanks for your opinion/perspective on this interesting current potential development.   

[Raider 68]

Another sign of the times.  Just great.   So now we have 21 former NFL players sueing the league for damages they allege for subsequent concussion symptoms.  This is egregious - they knew the risks of playing a game like football and no one forced them to choose that career.  I'm sorry, however, I have no sympathy for this kind of "grab bag" for $ and I hope the cases are either thrown out of court and/or they lose.  Apparently, according to the media, they have requested jury trials and I hope that there are decent folk out there who will be serving on those juries (if the cases get that far) that will see this for what it is and do the right thing.  Unless, there is evidence that the team coaches, administrators, athletic training and medical staffs of those NFL teams did something of negligence in the treatment of those players concussions - which I highly doubt is the case and the players would have to prove it unequivically beyond a reasonable doubt AND...if there is such evidence, those players should have addressed this long before now.  However, it has not been reported that they did the latter or that there was any evidence to support that, but rather they are doing this now only because of the recent hype and scrutiny in concussion awareness.  Those aspects are certainly needed, however, those players absolutely bear some personal responsibility for their current situation if they were not honest in reporting (under-reporting) their symptoms when they were playing and/or outright were not truthful about it and just kept playing "the game" at all costs.  Well, they were only slightly right in that it cost them alright, by sacrificing their health in later years if they did that.  This is very sad, however, unfortunately, what our society has become - highly letiginous and all for the sake of $.  Just another reason why I don't like the NFL or professional sports.   Sorry to ruin some pre-Christmas cheer ("bah, hum bug" ), however, this kind of ridiculous "stuff" just upsets me, but...I didn't bring this to the forefront, rather they and the media did by announcing all this today.

The Browns handling or lack thereof of the Colt McCoy hit and the ensuing concussion was so poorly handled and is inexcusable, IMHO. Any hits to the head just require careful measures.

[Bucaneer45]

Anyone hear who the finalists are for the Alma College Head Football job? The only name I am hearing is Mike Boyd from Nouvel High School.

[formerd3db]

They've had a ton of candidates and are still choosing among the list to decide on some final candidates for interviews.  I do not know who all is on the "in-progress" list other than a couple names who had been in consideration, however, regardless, I am not at liberty to share/divulge that or any other present info anyway.  It is my understanding that their committee purposely decided not to rush through this (or as fast as Olivet did) and are deliberately taking a little more time.  I would expect an announcement sometime shortly after the new year, atlhough if it was even into the 2nd week, that would not surprise me, but as far as I know, no specific date for an announcement has been mentioned.