FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[formerd3db]

Hi! Just wanted to stop in and say hello. Though this is my first post, I have followed DIII football for over 25 years. I actually had my college visit at Albion just two months after they won the national championship. Anyways, love the game and this division as you really get to see the essence of what college football is about ... football. I really do not care about 100,000 seat stadiums and $15 beers. Give me student-athletes playing the game for the love of the game and earning a degree. It is just a lot of fun.

Anyways, hi! I have my dream non-conference match-ups I would like to post for thoughts. But, not sure where to do that. Been fun reading these boards for so long and I thought it was about time to join in.

Welcome to the board, Evergreeen.  Great to have you.  As you can see from the number of posts, our MIAA board has, unfortunately, been sorely lacking for several years in more frequent discussion.  There are a few of us old "die hards" who still post fairly occasional, however, we've lost many of our past regulars and are always hoping for some new contributors here.

I'm sure I speak for our colleagues here as well, yet we welcome your opinions, and including on such topics as your "dream non-conference" match-ups, so post them here, yet you can post them/your comments on any of the boards.  Just be careful, though, as some of the posters on other boards can be vicious AND I will forgive you for having your college visit at our arch football rival Albion (just kidding!!! ).  Anyway, again, welcome and good to have you join us.  It will be good to have some new perspective here on the various topics.

P.S.  The "off-season" period can be kind of a "free-for-all" as far as topics are concerned and, in that regard, your dream non-conference "wish-list" is most appropriate!

[SaintsFAN]

formerd3db:

Do you believe both Hope and Thomas More win their next games to face off in WBB this weekend for the trip to the Final 4?? 

I don't follow close enough to know much about either team but I hope TMC is ready for what they'll face on Hope's floor.

[Evergreen14]

hank you for the welcome, formerd3db! Been to primarily MIAA and OAC games over the years and one Stagg Bowl (2005).

Ok, some of my dream, regular season, non-conference match-ups. If these teams have played before in the regular season, let me know. I know this website goes back about twenty years for schedules. I really like what UMHB and Linfield have done playing each other and Linfield even going to Case Western a few years ago. Great for the teams and the fans. Maybe a chance to see a regular season meeting for the first time between two great programs.

It would be neat, to me, to see any MIAA school, especially Hope, Albion, or Trine play against in a home-and-home with:
John Carroll, Baldwin-Wallace, Mount Union, Franklin, North Central, Illinois Wesleyan, St. John's, St. Thomas, UW-Oshkosh, UW-Whitewater, UW-Platteville, or UW-Lacrosse.

St. Johns or St. Thomas play UW-Whitewater, UW-Lacrosse, UW-Oshkosh, or UW-Platteville. Amazing those four WIAC schools have not been on either team's schedule this century.

Mount Union vs. Linfield

John Carroll or Mount Union vs. Brockport or Thomas More

Finlandia vs. any school in Texas. Imagine that travel!

Just some ideas for now. Please feel free to add to this. Maybe this can be a whole new topic.

[jamtod]

St. Johns or St. Thomas play UW-Whitewater, UW-Lacrosse, UW-Oshkosh, or UW-Platteville. Amazing those four WIAC schools have not been on either team's schedule this century.

St Thomas played UW-Lacrosse in 2013 and 2014. Those were down years for the Lacrosse program though. I'd love to see the Tommies take on any of those teams again.

[Evergreen14]

Thanks for fixing my mistake, jamtoTommie. Love DIII football.

[Mr. Ypsi]

hank you for the welcome, formerd3db! Been to primarily MIAA and OAC games over the years and one Stagg Bowl (2005).

Ok, some of my dream, regular season, non-conference match-ups. If these teams have played before in the regular season, let me know. I know this website goes back about twenty years for schedules. I really like what UMHB and Linfield have done playing each other and Linfield even going to Case Western a few years ago. Great for the teams and the fans. Maybe a chance to see a regular season meeting for the first time between two great programs.

It would be neat, to me, to see any MIAA school, especially Hope, Albion, or Trine play against in a home-and-home with:
John Carroll, Baldwin-Wallace, Mount Union, Franklin, North Central, Illinois Wesleyan, St. John's, St. Thomas, UW-Oshkosh, UW-Whitewater, UW-Platteville, or UW-Lacrosse.

St. Johns or St. Thomas play UW-Whitewater, UW-Lacrosse, UW-Oshkosh, or UW-Platteville. Amazing those four WIAC schools have not been on either team's schedule this century.

Mount Union vs. Linfield

John Carroll or Mount Union vs. Brockport or Thomas More

Finlandia vs. any school in Texas. Imagine that travel!

Just some ideas for now. Please feel free to add to this. Maybe this can be a whole new topic.

Hope and IWU had home-and-home series for 6 years (2008-13).  IWU won all the games, but except for a couple of years they were always close, hard-fought games.  Don't know why the series ended, but perhaps formerd3db knows (he is a team doctor for Hope).  Perhaps it was a casualty of the CCIW adding a 9th team, dropping non-con games from 3 to 2.  Over that same time period, IWU had a 6-season home-and-home series with Alma - with only one or two exceptions, those games were IWU blowouts.  IWU has also played Albion and Olivet in recent years, though I think only once each.

[waxx]

Adrian played a home and home with BW in 2000 and 2001, didn't go well for us. Then again, few things were going well for us at that time.

2000 - at Baldwin-Wallace L, 49-3
2001 - vs. Baldwin-Wallace L, 45-7

[sflzman]

Alma's opening at BW this year for a Thursday night game - I also expect the scores to be rather ugly. Jake Hudson can play

[Evergreen14]

Hopefully, the MIAA can continue to improve as a whole and be more competitive out-of-conference with teams they may currently be underdogs against.

What are your thoughts on Finlandia joining as a football-only school? From a logistics standpoint, it will be nice having eight teams so that each team can have a conference game the final seven games of the year. Plus, one less non-conference game to try to find later in the season.

[waxx]

Hopefully, the MIAA can continue to improve as a whole and be more competitive out-of-conference with teams they may currently be underdogs against.

What are your thoughts on Finlandia joining as a football-only school? From a logistics standpoint, it will be nice having eight teams so that each team can have a conference game the final seven games of the year. Plus, one less non-conference game to try to find later in the season.

It will be nice from numbers standpoint to have an even 8 in the conference, but the road trips they will have to make for every away game, include out of conference are going to be tough. I wonder if they have aspirations of moving to D2 eventually. They would have two D2 teams in the U.P. and several of the L.P. D2 are a few hours closer than most of the MIAA.

[formerd3db]

formerd3db:

Do you believe both Hope and Thomas More win their next games to face off in WBB this weekend for the trip to the Final 4?? 

I don't follow close enough to know much about either team but I hope TMC is ready for what they'll face on Hope's floor.

Apologies for the delayed reply!  As I have always primarily been "just a football guy" as you and many other of our colleagues on the D3 boards know  , admittedly, I do not follow Hope's women's basketball much, at least not as much as I should (and please, no comments from our other colleagues here or other boards about being "sexist" because I am not).  Also, I have only followed Hope's men's basketball somewhat tangentially, although more than I do for the women's team.

That being said, my "gut feeling" is that Hope and Thomas More both will have a very good changes at making the Final 4 and that would be a great match-up.  Of course, as you and all of us know, anything can happen in these tournaments as is already being seen this week in many of the DI bb tournaments around the country.  It only takes one "off night" to ruin it!  Yet, hopefully both H and TM will be victorious and move on to the tourney.  Thanks for the shout-out about this!

[formerd3db]

You are welcome, Evergreen.  We are glad to have you.  I'll try to add to the comments that our other colleagues have shared here.

First, thanks everyone (waxx, sfzman, Mr. Ypsi, JammtoTommie) for recalling the history of various series in response to Evergreen's topic an questions.  All very interesting.

As Mr. Ypsi points out and alludes to, as I recall, there were various reasons why the MIAA (as well as other conferences) decided to go to the conference agreements for a "several year series" of home-on-home games for a period of years.  However, one of the main reasons, if not the top reason, was to cut down on travel costs and play more closer regional games, which also secondarily helps in the "in region" consideration of competition for the playoffs, even though the Automatic Bid is present for the conference champion. Also, as Ypsi says, with the cut down to 2 or 3 non-conference games for some teams/conferences, it was kind of an easier situation to have a several year series and, again, with less traveling distances.  Of course, in Finlandia's situaion, "it is just the way it is" for them, although not any worse than MIAA teams having to travel that far for one game every other year or for that matter, the DII GLIAC teams in Ohio/southern Michigan having to travel way up there to Houghton and Marquette.  BTW, I am glad to have Finlandia in.  There only other "viable" conference option, I believe, would have been the NCAA.  They are still a program in growth.

For sure, many of us "old timers" have longed for returning to some of the historic and/or more common past match-ups; for example, Hope/Wabash, Hope/Wheaton, Hope/DePauw, similar to the IWU series and NP series, etc. When I was with my brother's school (Alma) a few years ago, Alma played the likes of Wittenberg, Thomas More, Franklin).  Many of the MIAA schools played DII regular season opponents (Valparaiso, University of Indianapolis [formerly Indiana Central], Ferris State, Michigan Tech, etc.,) and the thought was always that by playing "up" in competition, over time, it really helped improve the talent level of the players as well as, obviously, in recruiting.  However, that went by the wayside with the Div III playoffs in that playing against "out of division and/or region" teams does not count or help.  Nonetheless, I personally still like when DIII teams play a DII or an FCS division opponent occasionally and see nothing wrong with it for various reasons (although, I am probably in the minority in that opinion).

And finally, as many of us have discussed here in the past years, unfortunately, the MIAA conference has not been as good talent-wise as they have in past decades and there are several reasons for that. Hopefully, however, that will improve in the next few years, although I am not sure.

Great discussion friends.  Hope everyone is doing well.  It is only March and we are not finished with the college basketball season as yet and have the college baseball season and lacrosse season starting also, but...I am ready for DIII football season already!   

[formerd3db]

Hopefully, the MIAA can continue to improve as a whole and be more competitive out-of-conference with teams they may currently be underdogs against.

What are your thoughts on Finlandia joining as a football-only school? From a logistics standpoint, it will be nice having eight teams so that each team can have a conference game the final seven games of the year. Plus, one less non-conference game to try to find later in the season.

It will be nice from numbers standpoint to have an even 8 in the conference, but the road trips they will have to make for every away game, include out of conference are going to be tough. I wonder if they have aspirations of moving to D2 eventually. They would have two D2 teams in the U.P. and several of the L.P. D2 are a few hours closer than most of the MIAA.

Interesting point, waxx.  However, it is highly unlikely Finlandia would ever consider DII.  That is not their vision (recall they also have DIII NCAA hockey).  They are having a difficult enough time establishing their DIII football team even early on (perhaps even a little tougher than when "new teams" such as Lake Erie College and Notre Dame College, Davenport, Siena Heights, and Concordia-Ann Arbor started their programs in recent years; BTW, Lawrence Tech is apparently starting football again after a several decade hiatus).  Finlandia has a new head coach and turnover in the coaching staff, smaller roster last year after their first couple of years due to an exit of players for various reasons.  However, I do not doubt they will be able to establish a decent program in time.  They have a nice facility (turf field, scoreboard, new nice athletic/locker room facility next to the football field and plans for more permanent stadium stands soon to come.  I know one of the players on the team, so have been privy to some of this "background" info.  Anyway, just my thoughts on your question.

[waxx]

Hopefully, the MIAA can continue to improve as a whole and be more competitive out-of-conference with teams they may currently be underdogs against.

What are your thoughts on Finlandia joining as a football-only school? From a logistics standpoint, it will be nice having eight teams so that each team can have a conference game the final seven games of the year. Plus, one less non-conference game to try to find later in the season.

It will be nice from numbers standpoint to have an even 8 in the conference, but the road trips they will have to make for every away game, include out of conference are going to be tough. I wonder if they have aspirations of moving to D2 eventually. They would have two D2 teams in the U.P. and several of the L.P. D2 are a few hours closer than most of the MIAA.

Interesting point, waxx.  However, it is highly unlikely Finlandia would ever consider DII.  That is not their vision (recall they also have DIII NCAA hockey).  They are having a difficult enough time establishing their DIII football team even early on (perhaps even a little tougher than when "new teams" such as Lake Erie College and Notre Dame College, Davenport, Siena Heights, and Concordia-Ann Arbor started their programs in recent years; BTW, Lawrence Tech is apparently starting football again after a several decade hiatus).  Finlandia has a new head coach and turnover in the coaching staff, smaller roster last year after their first couple of years due to an exit of players for various reasons.  However, I do not doubt they will be able to establish a decent program in time.  They have a nice facility (turf field, scoreboard, new nice athletic/locker room facility next to the football field and plans for more permanent stadium stands soon to come.  I know one of the players on the team, so have been privy to some of this "background" info.  Anyway, just my thoughts on your question.

Thanks for the insight, I don't know much about Finlandia so I was just spit-balling. Any idea what their recruiting strategy and target areas have been? I feel like a lot of U.P. players would be scooped up by the two DII teams up there. But then again, maybe guys who used to go to one of those D2 schools and ride the bench will choose Finlandia because of a better opportunity to play.

[Pat Coleman]

Finlandia needs to figure out its strategy, because bringing a bunch of players up from Florida to the U.P. definitely did not work. Player retention has been awful, and Finlandia University *really* needs football to fill some beds consistently.