FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sac]

Mr. Ypsi,

You are right, I forgot about the top level D2 programs there including Grand Valley being the top one. Are they poised for another title this year?

We, like you have many D1 programs in the MAC that attract the many athletes that do go to OSU. That said, what school in the MIAA can be a playoff contender this year?

a little more info.........

Ohio High Schools 718
Michigan High Schools 622
----------------------------------

D1 programs

Ohio--(7) Akron, Bowling Green, Kent St, Miami, Ohio, Ohio State, Toledo
Michigan--(5) Central Mich, Eastern Mich, Michigan, Michigan State, Western Mich

FCS or D1AA
Ohio--(2) Dayton, Youngstown State
Michigan--none

D2 programs
Ohio-- (3) Ashland, Findley, Tiffin
Michigan-- (8 ) Grand Valley St, Ferris St., Hillsdale, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Northwood,   Saginaw Valley St., Wayne State

NAIA programs
Ohio -- (4)  Malone, Urbana, Ohio Dominican, Walsh
Michigan --none

Total scholarships available (excluding NAIA)
Ohio--766
Michigan 713

obviously this does not take into account scholarships that go to out of state students.   This is crude, but there is 1 scholarship for every 46 Ohio football players, vs 1 scholarship for every 50 Michigan football players.

The biggest difference...........
Consider that the State of Michigan has approx. 4500 fewer kids playing football (based on a complete guess of avg roster of 50 for both states).  The talent pool is simply not as deep, nor is the football culture as strong state wide in Michigan.

[Raider 68]

Mr. Ypsi,

You are right, I forgot about the top level D2 programs there including Grand Valley being the top one. Are they poised for another title this year?

We, like you have many D1 programs in the MAC that attract the many athletes that do go to OSU. That said, what school in the MIAA can be a playoff contender this year?

a little more info.........

Ohio High Schools 718
Michigan High Schools 622
----------------------------------

D1 programs

Ohio--(7) Akron, Bowling Green, Kent St, Miami, Ohio, Ohio State, Toledo
Michigan--(5) Central Mich, Eastern Mich, Michigan, Michigan State, Western Mich

FCS or D1AA
Ohio--(2) Dayton, Youngstown State
Michigan--none

D2 programs
Ohio-- (3) Ashland, Findley, Tiffin
Michigan-- (8 ) Grand Valley St, Ferris St., Hillsdale, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Northwood,   Saginaw Valley St., Wayne State

NAIA programs
Ohio -- (4)  Malone, Urbana, Ohio Dominican, Walsh
Michigan --none

Total scholarships available (excluding NAIA)
Ohio--766
Michigan 713

obviously this does not take into account scholarships that go to out of state students.   This is crude, but there is 1 scholarship for every 46 Ohio football players, vs 1 scholarship for every 50 Michigan football players.

The biggest difference...........
Consider that the State of Michigan has approx. 4500 fewer kids playing football (based on a complete guess of avg roster of 50 for both states).  The talent pool is simply not as deep, nor is the football culture as strong state wide in Michigan.

Mr. Ypsi,

Great information and while I knew the Ohio numbers, I was unsure of those in Michigan.

Thanks for your work. Also, I am a CMU alum in addition to MUC, so
I have ties to both states.

[cave2bens]

No offensive intended Sac, but you neglected two other Ohio programs - Lake Erie joins the GLIAC next season and those Cincinnati Bearcats of Brian Kelley's...

Raider68 - when were you strolling the scenic  , environs of Mt P?

[Raider 68]

No offensive intended Sac, but you neglected two other Ohio programs - Lake Erie joins the GLIAC next season and those Cincinnati Bearcats of Brian Kelley's...

Raider68 - when were you strolling the scenic  , environs of Mt P?

Sac,

Sorry I gave credit to Mr. Ypsi for all your stats.........good job.

Cave2bens,

Received my MBA from CMU 1975-1976, how about your time there?

[cave2bens]

68 -

Sent you a message. 

cave2bens

[D306]

Good research guys.

My simple comment is it has been to long, MIAA desparately needs a Playoff win.

I do not see that this year, no real powerhouse in the league on a national level.

[formerd3db]

Raider 68:

Welcome to the board.  My apologies for this tardy reply to your initial post.  At any rate, I won't reiterate here the reasons why most people feel the level of DIII talent here in Michigan has somewhat decreased in the last 1 1/2 decades as Mr. Ypsi and others have covered that quite well (i.e. the improvement/development of the DII programs).  Many of us had a rather extensive discussion on that here on this and other boards last year.  Many of the MIAA coaches here believe that is the main reason as well.

Don't get me wrong; DIII football in Michigan is still very good collegiate football and there are many very good players in high schools in Michigan that are not able to make it at the DIII level schools.  Competition is still good, and while we all know that, overall, most of the DIII players are a step too slow and/or a bit too small for DI level football, still there are those occasional players being (non) recruited by those latter schools who can indeed make it there.  It also depends on having the opportunity to be in the right place at the right time (i.e. the #'s game at one's position at a DI school as well as one's specific position).  Then there is also the fact that a few MIAA players have made it in the NFL for a short time.   

Anyway, we'll look forward to your additional contributions to discussions here on our board.  BTW, while you were at CMU, one of my high school best buddies played there, while I was playing at Hope.  Of course, CMU had that great championship year in 1974!  Speaking of them, will they pull another upset tomorrow against MSU like they did in the 1990's??      

[formerd3db]

Good research guys.

My simple comment is it has been to long, MIAA desparately needs a Playoff win.

I do not see that this year, no real powerhouse in the league on a national level.

Yes, it has been a very long and disappointing stretch since Albion's National Championship in the Stagg Bowl back in 1994.  Like all of you, right now, I'd just settle for one playoff win.  I agree with you and the others that will be difficult again this year, unless one of our teams "takes off like a bat out of The Lake of Fire" from mid-season on!

[formerd3db]

Yes, great research as usual sac!

[Raider 68]

Raider 68:

Welcome to the board.  My apologies for this tardy reply to your initial post.  At any rate, I won't reiterate here the reasons why most people feel the level of DIII talent here in Michigan has somewhat decreased in the last 1 1/2 decades as Mr. Ypsi and others have covered that quite well (i.e. the improvement/development of the DII programs).  Many of us had a rather extensive discussion on that here on this and other boards last year.  Many of the MIAA coaches here believe that is the main reason as well.

Don't get me wrong; DIII football in Michigan is still very good collegiate football and there are many very good players in high schools in Michigan that are not able to make it at the DIII level schools.  Competition is still good, and while we all know that, overall, most of the DIII players are a step too slow and/or a bit too small for DI level football, still there are those occasional players being (non) recruited by those latter schools who can indeed make it there.  It also depends on having the opportunity to be in the right place at the right time (i.e. the #'s game at one's position at a DI school as well as one's specific position).  Then there is also the fact that a few MIAA players have made it in the NFL for a short time.   

Anyway, we'll look forward to your additional contributions to discussions here on our board.  BTW, while you were at CMU, one of my high school best buddies played there, while I was playing at Hope.  Of course, CMU had that great championship year in 1974!  Speaking of them, will they pull another upset tomorrow against MSU like they did in the 1990's??      

Former3db,

Thanks for your reply. Although a Buckeye, MUC grad and player, I do follow
CMU little and look for MSU in the Big Ten standings. I think the game today CMU/MSU could be a good one.

I agree DIII in Michigan is not as strong as Ohio, but sac's comparison
shows overall that both states have areas of strength. In today's economy especially, competition for new students and players is all that moe difficult
and while Ohio has been tough economically, Michigan is worse. It is
much easier to attract the best athletes when the school is making news (MUC) vs. others compete in a tougher environment.

What I have seen lately is some of the smaller schools in Ohio are in the process of rebranding themselves in order to attract new and more students and athletes. That process takes planning and resources.

Hope the MIAA can poduce a playoff contender!

[formerd3db]

Raider 68:

You are welcome and thanks for your reply back.  I agree with you regarding many of the schools having to implement strategic planning for the future to attract students and that includes in the athletic areas, not just academics.  While some people may think that is essentially "keeping up with the Jones's", in reality that is what it takes i.e. competition for both.  Your MUC did that over a several year period - I remember when they were not that good in football.  Yet with the right vision from past administrations, that has obviously become a complete turn around and the school has grown in all areas, not just football.  Same can be said for some schools in our conference such as Olivet and Adrian, which have built new facilities for both athletics and academics to attract more students.  

As far as Hope, the campus and athletic facilities have also been expanded, yet they have not had any lack of being able to attract students in this economic times as opposed to some other DIII schools.  As far as the football aspect, while we've had huge numbers for players each year, I'm not sure how that translates into why we haven't been able to get back to a higher level of being able to compete with some of the stronger non-conference teams, other than the "DII factor" as has been discussed.  It certainly is not the coaching because our staff has done a tremendous job and inspired getting the best out of our talent.  But as has been said, the student-athletes coming out of high school today have more options regarding all the academic and athletic considerations at the collegiate level today (aside from i.e. not including the top "blue-chippers" who will obviously only consider DI level options and are not DIII material in regards to this situation).  Then again, the more important academic purpose is and always will be the mainstay of the DIII model.  That doesn't mean we don't want to not get to the highest level of competition in our arena as you know!

Anyway, thanks for the well-wishes for an MIAA playoff contender.  Perhaps we'll (and I hope it would be Hope, of course) get another shot at your MUC someday (although that is most likely a long time away).  However, as we've discussed, that first playoff game roadblock has to be taken care of!    

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Just flipping through briefly and saw the mention of steps to attract students in the future.  The new admin at Adrian is doing something very right, enrollment is up in the 1600 range now, built a brand new apartment complex and had to convert lobbies into dorm rooms, not a bad problem to have!

On another note Adrian leads Defiance 14-0 early in the second quarter.  Defense is making things very tough on Defiance, Adrian is handling the Defiance OL right now, DL looks great so far.  Offense looks solid so far, if they can gain some more consistency that was lacking last week things should be okay, they have a dearth of talent. 

Adrian just completes a long bomb down the Defiance sideline, Adrian ball at the Defiance 2 so Id imagine its gonna be 21-0 here shortly.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Good stand by Defiance, TFL on first down after a penalty forced Adrian back and to settle for a field goal.  17-0 Adrian over Defiance.

[70_dc_alum]

dawg - it is turning ugly...watching the live video on the iphone and it is sitting at 31-2

DC cant seem to do anything right.  drive it to the goaline and fumble thank goodness Adrian screwed up the snap to get the saftey on the next play.

As long as OSU represents the Big 10 (in a good way) tonight!!

[aw11]

Mr. Ypsi,

You are right, I forgot about the top level D2 programs there including Grand Valley being the top one. Are they poised for another title this year?

We, like you have many D1 programs in the MAC that attract the many athletes that do go to OSU. That said, what school in the MIAA can be a playoff contender this year?

a little more info.........

Ohio High Schools 718
Michigan High Schools 622
----------------------------------

D1 programs

Ohio--(7) Akron, Bowling Green, Kent St, Miami, Ohio, Ohio State, Toledo
Michigan--(5) Central Mich, Eastern Mich, Michigan, Michigan State, Western Mich

FCS or D1AA
Ohio--(2) Dayton, Youngstown State
Michigan--none

D2 programs
Ohio-- (3) Ashland, Findley, Tiffin
Michigan-- (8 ) Grand Valley St, Ferris St., Hillsdale, Michigan Tech, Northern Michigan, Northwood,   Saginaw Valley St., Wayne State

NAIA programs
Ohio -- (4)  Malone, Urbana, Ohio Dominican, Walsh
Michigan --none

Total scholarships available (excluding NAIA)
Ohio--766
Michigan 713

obviously this does not take into account scholarships that go to out of state students.   This is crude, but there is 1 scholarship for every 46 Ohio football players, vs 1 scholarship for every 50 Michigan football players.

The biggest difference...........
Consider that the State of Michigan has approx. 4500 fewer kids playing football (based on a complete guess of avg roster of 50 for both states).  The talent pool is simply not as deep, nor is the football culture as strong state wide in Michigan.

Mr. Ypsi,

Great information and while I knew the Ohio numbers, I was unsure of those in Michigan.

Thanks for your work. Also, I am a CMU alum in addition to MUC, so
I have ties to both states.

Don't forget about the University of Cincinnati also Lake Erie College (D2)