FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[formerd3db]

short:

I agree with you on both statements.  Even at the small college level, recruiting for the sport and the college is a "different animal" and is a different challenge even for the most experiened and successful high school school coach regardless of where they've been and/or come from.  

[Raider 68]

short:

I agree with you on both statements.  Even at the small college level, recruiting for the sport and the college is a "different animal" and is a different challenge even for the most experiened and successful high school school coach regardless of where they've been and/or come from. 

One key to recruiting is to convince that "blue Chip' player to come to your
college/university that is a known athlete. Others will follow if they know that the program is moving in the right direction. That process often takes a few years, but if done right it is a building block provided that the program make positive steps!

[70_dc_alum]

Congrats to Olivet on what looks to be a good coach (although he will be made through recruiting). Question I have is why is he taking it?  I am guessing he is a legend at his former role 2 state titles 1 state runner up, 5 semis, 11 league titles, and well north of 200 wins and a heck of a lot better $ when you factor in teaching for 25+ yrs and that senority He takes a job leaving one he has 25 yrs history as HC to coach a typically bottom half school in the MIAA with 1 win in last 2 yrs and I am assuming the roster is not filled with a lot of returning all league guys!

Only thing I can think of is (you can do this in Ohio) he got his 30yrs and is retiring collecting full pension and dbl dipping with a salary from OC. In Ohio you can work at the same school but you have to take a 30day break. Maybe a different law in MI where you can't dbl dip same place??

What ever the reason it works out for olivet!  Will be interesting to see how he does. Just like you tell a freshman after their first Oklahoma drill. This isn't high school anymore, big difference, welcome to college football!

Happy holidays to all

[formerd3db]

Congrats to Olivet on what looks to be a good coach (although he will be made through recruiting). Question I have is why is he taking it?  I am guessing he is a legend at his former role 2 state titles 1 state runner up, 5 semis, 11 league titles, and well north of 200 wins and a heck of a lot better $ when you factor in teaching for 25+ yrs and that senority He takes a job leaving one he has 25 yrs history as HC to coach a typically bottom half school in the MIAA with 1 win in last 2 yrs and I am assuming the roster is not filled with a lot of returning all league guys!

Only thing I can think of is (you can do this in Ohio) he got his 30yrs and is retiring collecting full pension and dbl dipping with a salary from OC. In Ohio you can work at the same school but you have to take a 30day break. Maybe a different law in MI where you can't dbl dip same place??

What ever the reason it works out for olivet!  Will be interesting to see how he does. Just like you tell a freshman after their first Oklahoma drill. This isn't high school anymore, big difference, welcome to college football!

Happy holidays to all

70_dc_alum:

I would think it would have to something along those lines.  As much as I love small college football, the truth is the actual coaching jobs do not pay that much.  As such, it is so much easier for these younger coaches who are just getting into the field early in their careers to do just that i.e. make it their career.  For someone like Olivet's new coach, they would have to be faily well set financially to make such a change.  In addition, for a person who is in that type of situation, it is great that they get such an opportunity to make a change and get into college coaching, if that is what they're dream has been at some point in time and/or "just that they are ready for a change".  The other side of the argument, some people might argue that it is obviously easier to appoint a coach from the ranks of those who are already in at that level.  A much smoother transition.

All that being said, I, too, wish the new Olivet coach and their program great success.  However, I will also note and agree with you that, indeed, it is a "very different animal" in coaching college football even at the small college level and in playing the game itself.  Even at DIII, there are some very, very good h.s. athletes that are not good enough to make it at that level; coaching in a college system, recruiting not only for that but the academic aspects of the equation all are totally different than the challenges and duties for coaches at the high school level.  Your quote regarding the 'ole Oklahoma Drill says it all and is so, so true... it brings back a lot of memories i.e. seeing some first time newcome just get smashed in that drill on the first day of contact in preseason camp - "Welcome to college football"!    

[Raider 68]

Congrats to Olivet on what looks to be a good coach (although he will be made through recruiting). Question I have is why is he taking it?  I am guessing he is a legend at his former role 2 state titles 1 state runner up, 5 semis, 11 league titles, and well north of 200 wins and a heck of a lot better $ when you factor in teaching for 25+ yrs and that senority He takes a job leaving one he has 25 yrs history as HC to coach a typically bottom half school in the MIAA with 1 win in last 2 yrs and I am assuming the roster is not filled with a lot of returning all league guys!

Only thing I can think of is (you can do this in Ohio) he got his 30yrs and is retiring collecting full pension and dbl dipping with a salary from OC. In Ohio you can work at the same school but you have to take a 30day break. Maybe a different law in MI where you can't dbl dip same place??

What ever the reason it works out for olivet!  Will be interesting to see how he does. Just like you tell a freshman after their first Oklahoma drill. This isn't high school anymore, big difference, welcome to college football!

Happy holidays to all

70_dc_alum:

I would think it would have to something along those lines.  As much as I love small college football, the truth is the actual coaching jobs do not pay that much.  As such, it is so much easier for these younger coaches who are just getting into the field early in their careers to do just that i.e. make it their career.  For someone like Olivet's new coach, they would have to be faily well set financially to make such a change.  In addition, for a person who is in that type of situation, it is great that they get such an opportunity to make a change and get into college coaching, if that is what they're dream has been at some point in time and/or "just that they are ready for a change".  The other side of the argument, some people might argue that it is obviously easier to appoint a coach from the ranks of those who are already in at that level.  A much smoother transition.

All that being said, I, too, wish the new Olivet coach and their program great success.  However, I will also note and agree with you that, indeed, it is a "very different animal" in coaching college football even at the small college level and in playing the game itself.  Even at DIII, there are some very, very good h.s. athletes that are not good enough to make it at that level; coaching in a college system, recruiting not only for that but the academic aspects of the equation all are totally different than the challenges and duties for coaches at the high school level.  Your quote regarding the 'ole Oklahoma Drill says it all and is so, so true... it brings back a lot of memories i.e. seeing some first time newcome just get smashed in that drill on the first day of contact in preseason camp - "Welcome to college football"!    

former3db,

Great points! Only the top level D3 coaches earn an attractive compensation package and we know there are only a few of them across the board.

A HC has too win his conference and go into the playoffs (multiple times) to command a very respectable salary. The same can be said for D2 as well!

[formerd3db]

Thanks Raider68.  You make good points as well.

BTW, did you and all our other colleagues here see the announcement that Grand Valley State Head Coach Chuck Martin has been offered and accepted the defensive backs coaching job at Notre Dame under his former boss Brian Kelly?  I totally missed that the other day (i.e. apparently it was announced Monday).  Does that surprise anyone?  I think not, since Martin had been offered to go with Kelly to both Central Michigan and then Cincinnati, but turned him down.  Also, Martin had said on the day of the Div. III title game that he wasn't sure if Kelly would offer him again at ND since he had turned Kelly down twice before.  In addition, it was considered skeptical by some since GVSU lost the title game this year.  Overall, though I'm not totally surprised.  Some had also just mentioned that a minor consideration/factor was that Martin also had an Irsih/Catholic background and always wanted to consider coaching at ND in some capacity.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see who Grand Valley State picks as their next head coach.  Do any of you know if any of the current staff has a chance at being considered?  Or will they "go outside" this time?  

[OC_SID]

I heard that defensive coordinator is the likely choice for head coach.

[sac]

Thanks Raider68.  You make good points as well.

BTW, did you and all our other colleagues here see the announcement that Grand Valley State Head Coach Chuck Martin has been offered and accepted the defensive backs coaching job at Notre Dame under his former boss Brian Kelly?  I totally missed that the other day (i.e. apparently it was announced Monday).  Does that surprise anyone?  I think not, since Martin had been offered to go with Kelly to both Central Michigan and then Cincinnati, but turned him down.  Also, Martin had said on the day of the Div. III title game that he wasn't sure if Kelly would offer him again at ND since he had turned Kelly down twice before.  In addition, it was considered skeptical by some since GVSU lost the title game this year.  Overall, though I'm not totally surprised.  Some had also just mentioned that a minor consideration/factor was that Martin also had an Irsih/Catholic background and always wanted to consider coaching at ND in some capacity.

Anyway, it will be interesting to see who Grand Valley State picks as their next head coach.  Do any of you know if any of the current staff has a chance at being considered?  Or will they "go outside" this time?  

Missed this myself.  This means former Michigan and NE Patriot Defensive Back Corwin Brown is available.  Whoever hires him is getting one heck of a recruiter and coach.

[DBQ1965]

From the Grand Rapids Press regarding the coaching vacancy at Grand Valley:

http://www.mlive.com/lakers/index.ssf/2009/12/grand_valley_state_begins_inte.html

[formerd3db]

DBQ1965:

Thanks for the update.  For once, something of substance posted on MLive, although that was easy since it was a legit newspaper column!    It will be interesting to see who GVSU chooses.  There has been some interesting discussion regarding that (i.e. the candidates) over on the WIAC board.

[Raider 68]

DBQ1965:

Thanks for the update.  For once, something of substance posted on MLive, although that was easy since it was a legit newspaper column!    It will be interesting to see who GVSU chooses.  There has been some interesting discussion regarding that (i.e. the candidates) over on the WIAC board.

former3db,

I wonder if GVSU is just interviewing to say they looked at other candidates
vs. the current staff coach. It would not surprize me if this decision came early next week. Your thoughts?

[formerd3db]

DBQ1965:

Thanks for the update.  For once, something of substance posted on MLive, although that was easy since it was a legit newspaper column!    It will be interesting to see who GVSU chooses.  There has been some interesting discussion regarding that (i.e. the candidates) over on the WIAC board.

former3db,

I wonder if GVSU is just interviewing to say they looked at other candidates
vs. the current staff coach. It would not surprize me if this decision came early next week. Your thoughts?

Raider68:

I think you are right.  I guess it is somewhat of a "Catch 22" if I may borrow that old phrase.  On one hand, if they pick the current staff coach, some people are going to say it was "nepotism"; while on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me that some people would be upset if they didn't pick him.  I'm sure all the candidates are good, including him and also Liepold from UW-W.  It is a tough decision, for sure, yet, like you, I won't be surprised if they make the announcement sometime this week.

On a similar albeit tangent topic, I think it will also be interesting to see who these various new head coaches at all the levels end up picking for their resepctive staffs.  BTW, has anyone heard if Texas Tech said anything about giving that interim coach the "permanent" title as yet?  He did a great job against Michigan State last night in the Alamo Bowl and seemed to be a really nice, honest and grateful person in the interviews.  While anyone can get lucky in a game in that type of situation that he was placed in, on the other hand, you do have to have some talent and experience to handle such situations and he's been at TT for a few years, knows the system, the staff, administration and kids.  Speaking of that, it sure was terrible what some of those TT fans have been saying and doing in that situation.   Those people are crazy, dangerous and "have no clue".  Guess it takes all kinds to make up this world as that saying goes.

[sac]

DBQ1965:

Thanks for the update.  For once, something of substance posted on MLive, although that was easy since it was a legit newspaper column!    It will be interesting to see who GVSU chooses.  There has been some interesting discussion regarding that (i.e. the candidates) over on the WIAC board.

former3db,

I wonder if GVSU is just interviewing to say they looked at other candidates
vs. the current staff coach. It would not surprize me if this decision came early next week. Your thoughts?

Raider68:

I think you are right.  I guess it is somewhat of a "Catch 22" if I may borrow that old phrase.  On one hand, if they pick the current staff coach, some people are going to say it was "nepotism"; while on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me that some people would be upset if they didn't pick him.  I'm sure all the candidates are good, including him and also Liepold from UW-W.  It is a tough decision, for sure, yet, like you, I won't be surprised if they make the announcement sometime this week.

On a similar albeit tangent topic, I think it will also be interesting to see who these various new head coaches at all the levels end up picking for their resepctive staffs.  BTW, has anyone heard if Texas Tech said anything about giving that interim coach the "permanent" title as yet?  He did a great job against Michigan State last night in the Alamo Bowl and seemed to be a really nice, honest and grateful person in the interviews.  While anyone can get lucky in a game in that type of situation that he was placed in, on the other hand, you do have to have some talent and experience to handle such situations and he's been at TT for a few years, knows the system, the staff, administration and kids.  Speaking of that, it sure was terrible what some of those TT fans have been saying and doing in that situation.   Those people are crazy, dangerous and "have no clue".  Guess it takes all kinds to make up this world as that saying goes.

Texas Tech should talk to Michigan State about permanently hiring interim bowl coaches...........Bobby Williams was a really nice, honest and grateful person as well.

[Raider 68]

DBQ1965:

Thanks for the update.  For once, something of substance posted on MLive, although that was easy since it was a legit newspaper column!    It will be interesting to see who GVSU chooses.  There has been some interesting discussion regarding that (i.e. the candidates) over on the WIAC board.

former3db,

I wonder if GVSU is just interviewing to say they looked at other candidates
vs. the current staff coach. It would not surprize me if this decision came early next week. Your thoughts?

Raider68:

I think you are right.  I guess it is somewhat of a "Catch 22" if I may borrow that old phrase.  On one hand, if they pick the current staff coach, some people are going to say it was "nepotism"; while on the other hand, it wouldn't surprise me that some people would be upset if they didn't pick him.  I'm sure all the candidates are good, including him and also Liepold from UW-W.  It is a tough decision, for sure, yet, like you, I won't be surprised if they make the announcement sometime this week.

On a similar albeit tangent topic, I think it will also be interesting to see who these various new head coaches at all the levels end up picking for their resepctive staffs.  BTW, has anyone heard if Texas Tech said anything about giving that interim coach the "permanent" title as yet?  He did a great job against Michigan State last night in the Alamo Bowl and seemed to be a really nice, honest and grateful person in the interviews.  While anyone can get lucky in a game in that type of situation that he was placed in, on the other hand, you do have to have some talent and experience to handle such situations and he's been at TT for a few years, knows the system, the staff, administration and kids.  Speaking of that, it sure was terrible what some of those TT fans have been saying and doing in that situation.   Those people are crazy, dangerous and "have no clue".  Guess it takes all kinds to make up this world as that saying goes.

former 3db,

Great points! On the GVSU opening, I think they go with the staff coach, since this will enable them to utilize all the recruiting perspective/activity already established by Coach Martin.

IMHO, Texas Tech will seek a clean break with an outside coach. Just too many hard feelings left and unfortunately the interim  coach will not benefit, but I could be totally off.

[formerd3db]

Yes, but no comparison there, sac - not on this one.  Williams never showed that kind of brilliance which Coach "R" did last night.  As I mentioned, that could certainly be "pure luck" and a "one time wonder/occurance", however, I'd take that anyday and hire the guy.  Also, Williams was essentially "recommended" by the players as you recall, not so much on his interim conduction of games; quite unlike what we witnessed last evening.  Just MO.