FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sflzman]

Well the way I read into it, Trine has become a very good program in a very short amount of time - not starting rumors....but there is a lot of money floating around in that school - and have become instant-contenders for the league championship each year. And a threat to go past the first round of the NCAA tourney.

That's what happens when an alumnus named Trine generously makes an eight figure donation, you hire an energetic coaching staff the players and parents relate to, you upgrade all the facilities with the $ noted above, and you offer a respected university curriculum.

Yes, I was at Trine the spring of 2009 for the MIAA softball tournament and driving around campus I was impressed, expecially with the athletic facilities that I saw. The only thing I didnt like was the water tower with TSU on it. I still have not seen the Fred Zollner athletic Stadium or complex, whatever it is, so I might go down for the Alma/Trine game.

Trine really has only been good in Football, Softball, and baseball - in a weak conference - men's golf is having a good year this year....though i dont know much about the history of trine golf.

[BoredatWork56]

sflzman - I don't know what rumors you would be stating by pointing out the upgrades on the campus of Trine, but its not like they are doing anything secret. All of the donations from the alumni have been put to use in a very public manner 

The renovation on campus was long over due.  It started in 2006, with the construction of he new University Center.  That happened to be right after the 0-10 season, so I don't think there was any correlation between a good football program briging in money that otherwise wouldn't have been donated.  The new football facilities were also in the works around that time, and took several years to raise funds. It just so hapened that by the time it was constructed, the team turned itself around.

The turnaround had nothing to do with the upgrades on campus, it had everything to do with the new coaching staff that came in when I was a sophmore, in the fall of 2006. they were able to recruit talented players, and if nothing else, the improvements on campus helped in retention. 

If you get the chance, come down for the Trine/Alma game.  The new football facilities are top notch and make for a comfortable and exciting place to watch a football game.

[D306]

D3DB

Thank you for the nice comments.
Back in Michigan this week and may go to Albion Homecoming game, have friends there and on both teams.

Thank you for remembering my family issues, Yes things are pretty good, have a schedule and a support staff for the grandkids. Will be a lifetime requirement for the kids, so we do what we can to help our Daughter in law, she is overwhlemed with the kids and loss of our son. Thought of having them move to Michigan but have a DR she/we feel comfortable with so we will stay here for the forseeable future.

Back to MIAA football, as with all things it is cyclical unfortunately for some of us we are on the wrong end of the cycle presently.  
I have high expectations, I can handle a loss, I do not do well with lack of commitment and dumb mistakes.
Tough being an "old" coach, do not want to be the the "back in the day" guy.  
Trine has done a great job in the past several years, we all saw this coming, look back in the threads to a few years ago, growth of college, energetic coaching staff, year round program. Funny thing the same comments I am starting to see, Money, recruits etc... Sound exactly the things  I/we hear about top HS teams.  Strong programs are built from the top down, winning recruits winners, and sets expectations if you enforce the core program beliefs, you will be solid every year.
In general I think that football has been hurt by too many options for our youth, laptops, video games,multiple sports playing year round, Soccer "moms"  . The comment being lack of being a die hard ahtlete, this is why in my mind the majority of "great" Pro athletes come from small towns,  less options,.
All that being said I think the general skill level has increased, kids are bigger faster, stronger, though not as well coached in fundementals.  

Well best of luck to Hope and your family, get off the snid this wekend, too good of a program to play like they have

[formerd3db]

sflzman - I don't know what rumors you would be stating by pointing out the upgrades on the campus of Trine, but its not like they are doing anything secret. All of the donations from the alumni have been put to use in a very public manner  

The renovation on campus was long over due.  It started in 2006, with the construction of he new University Center.  That happened to be right after the 0-10 season, so I don't think there was any correlation between a good football program briging in money that otherwise wouldn't have been donated.  The new football facilities were also in the works around that time, and took several years to raise funds. It just so hapened that by the time it was constructed, the team turned itself around.

The turnaround had nothing to do with the upgrades on campus, it had everything to do with the new coaching staff that came in when I was a sophmore, in the fall of 2006. they were able to recruit talented players, and if nothing else, the improvements on campus helped in retention.  

If you get the chance, come down for the Trine/Alma game.  The new football facilities are top notch and make for a comfortable and exciting place to watch a football game.

I agree.  Trine has done a tremendous job in all areas in improving the college. A few years ago, as you well know, it was just another small college, and in some respects, not very impressive to potential recruits, including the campus.  Despite the 10-0 season right after the football program was reinstituted (NAIA - and scholarship football as I recall - is that correct?), it was somewhat relatively unknown here in Michigan - although they had played Albion in basketball for some years.  Yet, as you say, the administration and alumni made commmitments and the campus development and improvements have been tremendous.

I have always had a fondness for the old college campuses and although Trine is a small school like most of our DIII schools are, I really like how they preserved the oldest buidlings on campus from the 18880's -really gives it some character.  The town of Angola itself is nicde as well, with character also and the surrounding modern development in the community has been failry controled i.e. not sprawled.  With good coaching staff and faculty and expanded curriculum programs, Trine has grown and become a very stable and desirable college.  Of course, as you've all pointed out, it does help to have very wealthy alunmi such as Trine and Shive who gave tons of $ for the college and it's football program respectively.  Also, as you know, Trine has the luxury of being one of the very few small colleges that has its own golf course.

BTW, perhaps some people do not know this, but before Trine reinstated football in the mid-1990's, they actually had an official team back in 1899-1900. I believe the 1900 team was its last until the new era.  Anyway, you Trine guys have a lot to be proud of.  Despite your team kicking all of us around on the football field of recent, I'm glad they/you are in our MIAA.  Now we just need to get the rest of some of our traditional strong programs in football back to their former levels.  

[formerd3db]

D306:

You are most welcome and I will continue to keep you and yours and your entire extended family in prayer.  I can imagine how tough a challenge it is for all of you, but Keep the Faith.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the current status of our MIAA.  I agree with you on these aspects as well.  Like you, I don't want to be that "old coach guy" always saying..."well, it used to be like this and...we need to get back to the way it was so to speak", etc.  We all know that things change in life and indeed, it is cyclic like you point out very well.  I know people who would remember (yes, there are other MIAA people older than my time ) who will recall the days when even Kazoo in the '60's and Alma in the late '60's/early '70's kicked everyone's tail.  But, times and goals do change in all aspects of colleges and there are, indeed, many factors such as you relate that play into the football aspects of today.  Not to mention (and this has been discussed by many others here on this board and other boards in the past) the rise of the DII and other scholarship football programs in our region of the Midwest.  That, without a doubt along with the economy has been a factor as well.  I would disagree with anyone who says otherwise (and so would many of our MIAA coaches! ).

Anyway, I hope you enjoy your weekend back here.  Thanks again for posting and, again, please visit us on the board when you can.

Best,
formerd3db

[BoredatWork56]

Formerd3db-  You are correct. Tri-State made the switch from NAIA to DIII in 2004 (I believe - some of my fellow Thunder can correct me if I am wrong).  There were a few scholarship players left over on the 2005 team.  They went through a 4 year probationary period before becoming a full member of the NCAA, as well as being eligible for the palyoffs, in 2008.

[D306]

Very true the economy, and the huge growth in GVSU, WMU, CMU student population has hurt the MIAA.
Tough to make that Tuition payment when there is good state school so close, let alone the growth of DII schools in area.

I think this also holds true for the tough spot alot of Parochial schools, all school districts actually are in through out Michigan.
SOC, Charter Schools, every school fighting for state dollars and head count. While education is the main issue at HS, it has a tangental effect on the quality and quantity of Athletes as well to get us back to MIAA football topic.

Feels like football weather finally, as the Conference season heats up, enjoy the season guys.
Let's get some bonfires going and tailgate, those are the times we will remember. Love the smell of burning leaves and branchs in the fall.

[sac]

Trine really has only been good in Football, Softball, and baseball - in a weak conference - men's golf is having a good year this year....though i dont know much about the history of trine golf.

Trine men's golf has always been good (top 3 all but 1 year in their MIAA run), and is the only MIAA program with its own golf course.  Zollner G.C., not a bad course.  I think I remember seeing some NAIA banners in their fieldhouse for golf, maybe not.

BTW this year's MIAA race might be the most competitive in a long, long while.  Just 31 strokes separate 1st from 5th with 2 rounds to go, in college golf 31 shots is nothing.

[sac]

Take a look at the head count of the D2 rosters in our state, those programs are pretty big even for D2.  There are a lot of walk-ons at GVSU, SVSU and Ferris that could play and play well in the MIAA.

[formerd3db]

BAW56:

Thanks for the details.  While I/we knew of the probationary period for the transition to NCAA DIII, I wasn't sure about the "hold-over" scholarship players.  I thought perhaps many of them would have transfered.  BTW, just out of curiosity (and Trine friends here, please forgive me in asking this question as it may have been discussed long past), but why did Trine decide to do away with scholarship football?  Was the cost of providing scholarships the only factor?  Just curious.

D306:
Indeed, those are great memories and smells!

sac:
You are right on.  Although the DII schools are allowed only 36 full scholarships (I've never figured out why the NCAA mandates that at that level - I can understand the 85 limit at DI), and most players then get a 1/2 "ride", the prospect of eventually obtaining a scholarship is enticing for the walk-on players to those schools as well as the lower tuition as you've pointed out.  For sure, the MIAA is now not getting those type of players as you mention and the MIAA football coaching staffs at most of those schools have pointed to this as one of the fundamental factors for quite some time now.  Still, as we all know, a prospective player has to have the GPA and competitive college entrance exam scores to be considered for acceptance at the MIAA schools. 

[formerd3db]

BTW, thanks for the golf info re: Trine.  Admittedly, except for Hope, I haven't followed MIAA golf much or that closely.

[Raider 68]

IMHO, football and the private schools need to have a competitive college/university behind them to attract the good athletes. The sports programs (football) have to demonstrate to the prospective player that their school is moving forward not treading water.

Other than Trine, which MIAA schools are "really" moving forward and what others need changes in their programs and the support of a competitive administration?

[cave2bens]

IMHO, football and the private schools need to have a competitive college/university behind them to attract the good athletes. The sports programs (football) have to demonstrate to the prospective player that their school is moving forward not treading water.

Other than Trine, which MIAA schools are "really" moving forward and what others need changes in their programs and the support of a competitive administration?

Is there really a simple answer to that question?  As fans, everyone wants a competitive program, but those same pressures for investment exist in every department of the institution.  I'm not certain I'd wish to decide how to spend an non-designated windfall if forced to choose between new field turf or a sorely needed wing on the science building.  Should that $250,000 go to this year's travel budget for a new womens' rowing team - a Title IX balance for the resurrected wrestling team which disbanded in the 1980s, or would it better serve as an investment into an HP GC Mass Spec with full library and auto injectors in the chemistry laboratory, where they've been limping along on 15 year old, antiquated equipment and are losing NSF and NIH grant opportunities as result?

Some schools are truly blessed with instant infusions of cash, others have substantial endowments (as long as the investments retain stability  ), and some limp along, doing the proverbial "hand to mouth" routine.  Several MIAA schools have retained long term memberships in the GLCA, CTMD, and Annapolis groups - all of which have pretty rigorous academic standards to uphold.  Identity and reputation play major roles in all three, and it all comes down to institutional priorities.

Large donors are not dissimilar to stock investors, and it comes back to ROI, product, and gut feelings.  I'd wager that 85% of the boosters at Ohio State have never set foot in the main library on the Oval - but what's important to Buckeye Nation is Tressel-mania.  DIII is a different animal - football is an important element of campus life (I dare not say "extracurricular" do I?), but ultimately, it's not the be all to end all for most of the participants or the fans.  Over here in Botswana, trust me, I depend on DIII radio broadcasts to retain sanity and maintain a touch of home on Saturday night - Sunday morning.  Growing up near Angola (IN and not the LA prison  ), I'm pleased to see Trine's resurgence, but enjoy following all of the northern region programs, win or lose.   

[formerd3db]

cav2:

Great to hear from you and I hope you and yours are doing well.

Very thoughtful insight and you bring all those other factors "to the table" in addition to those that have been discussed.  Without a doubt, as you relate, it is a very complex issue with many facets that the colleges have to consider.

Another example, since you mentioned the field turf, is that in attempting to be competitive which includes attracting student-athletes to the college for general enrollment anyway (and not just their particular sport), the colleges have to keep up with the times regarding the field facilities.  Olivet was one example in the MIAA in obtaining that (as did Adrian); Hope was blessed with the new synthetic turf for its soccer/lacrosse new stadium and badly needs the turf for its practice fields and the football stadium (actually stadium is owned by the City of Holland but both Holland High School and Hope College use it - Hope needs to obtain the stadium IMO and that of others and that has been in consideration now for a couple of years - but that is another story!

Yet, the key is, as you also related, is the source of the $.  You "hit the nail on the head".  The difference is that some alumni gave the $ to Olivet and Hope for specific purposes of the athletic facilities and that is different than sourcing it from endowments, etc. and grants.  Bottom line is as you nicely explained is that is certainly is a complex and challenging situation for all these DIII schools, no matter how large or small they are.

[sflzman]

First off, SAC: Thanks for the golf info.....

Very true the economy, and the huge growth in GVSU, WMU, CMU student population has hurt the MIAA.
Tough to make that Tuition payment when there is good state school so close, let alone the growth of DII schools in area.

I think this also holds true for the tough spot alot of Parochial schools, all school districts actually are in through out Michigan.
SOC, Charter Schools, every school fighting for state dollars and head count. While education is the main issue at HS, it has a tangental effect on the quality and quantity of Athletes as well to get us back to MIAA football topic.

Feels like football weather finally, as the Conference season heats up, enjoy the season guys.
Let's get some bonfires going and tailgate, those are the times we will remember. Love the smell of burning leaves and branchs in the fall.

As far as tuition goes....say you're a student-athlete in mid-michigan, you only have d3 talent. If you stay local-ish, looking at CMU, Ferris and Alma, your price difference from CMU or Ferris to Alma is about 16,000-20,000 a year. Is being an athlete really worth that much money?

This is including room and board.....