FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sflzman]

Does anyone see any chance of there being a non-UWW/Mount U Championship game?

sflzman.

It will depend on the brackets to a degree, but let's see who "could maybe" beat either one them:

UWW:
1. Linfield- played UWW tough last year

2. St. Thomas- has had a good year against some tough teams

3. Mary Hardin Baylor- pretty good year, but has struggled against UWW

Mount Union:  
1. North Central- depends where they play, but NC is having a good year
                           but has to beat Wheaton first

2. Wesley- good year so far, but their competition in the second half of the
                 season is much weaker, lost to the Raiders in the semi's 24-7 in '09 but
                 Mount lost their QB in the first quarter of the game

3. Ohio Northern- a rematch for Coach Paul against his Alma mater is possible
                            ONU has had a good year, except for the 27-0 loss to the
                            Raiders.

So what are the odds that UWW and Mount Union meet for the 6th straight time, it could  be 3:1 at this point, IMHO

Thanks for that info!

The other thing that has popped into my mind about this topic, is that what is "better" for d3 football, another title rematch, or some parity that we haven't seen much of...like a Trine in the national championship...

[Raider 68]

sflzman,

What would be good for D3 is the rest of the teams to raise their programs to the Mount Union and UWW level:

Mount Union- 10 National titles since 1993, 21 playoff appearances since 1985

UW- Whitewater- 2 National titles since 2001, at least 10 playoff appearances (do not have actual numbers)

Mr. Ypsi is correct that the rest of teams to raise their level is unlikely, but one would think some can!

[Mr. Ypsi]

sflzman,

What would be good for D3 is the rest of the teams to raise their programs to the Mount Union and UWW level:

Easier said than done.

And if ALL 236(?) other d3s managed to do it, d1 would disappear for lack of players!

[sflzman]

sflzman,

What would be good for D3 is the rest of the teams to raise their programs to the Mount Union and UWW level:

Easier said than done.

And if ALL 236(?) other d3s managed to do it, d1 would disappear for lack of players!

Well...either that or d3 teams would be eliminating msoccer, cross country, and any other men's sport thats in the fall  cuz d3 itself would run out of players....

[Mr. Ypsi]

sflzman,

What would be good for D3 is the rest of the teams to raise their programs to the Mount Union and UWW level:

Easier said than done.

And if ALL 236(?) other d3s managed to do it, d1 would disappear for lack of players!

Well...either that or d3 teams would be eliminating msoccer, cross country, and any other men's sport thats in the fall  cuz d3 itself would run out of players....

No.  D3 wouldn't be adding players, just having a whole bunch of Pierre Garcons and Andy Studebakers!  There'd be no GOOD players left over for D1!

[Uncle Rico]

Just a question...Do you think programs such as Grand Valley (D2 Champions multiple times), located in the heart of MIAA country, take some of the talent away from the D3 schools that surround it?  I have to believe that the number, football quality, and cost of D2 schools provide more options and may somewhat drain the talent pool.  I also confess to not knowing the relative strength of D2 programs in other areas of the nation.  Just wondering if a powerhouse like Grand Valley were not located where it is, if some of the MIAA schools might benefit from a football strength perspective.  2-3 very talented football players might make a difference to a team that is on the verge of turning things around.

[Diezel1]

I do think it hurts the MIAA as does the rest of the GLIAC. There are many schools in Michigan that take away very talented players from the MIAA due to athletic acholarship options

[formerd3db]

Uncle Rico:

You most likely missed some of the past postings on this topic awhile back.  Several of us here on the MIAA board as well as others on the OAC board have had multiple discussions on this in the past (there was some about 3 weeks ago or so over on the OAC board as I recall) and the reasons for it.  The bottom line i.e. the consensus is that the D2 schools in MI and now in OH, have definitely hurt the recruiting for DIII teams, at least in Michigan.  Most of the MIAA coaching staffs believe that (including Hope's staff) as they have seen that effect in the last several years.  Also, now with some of the other smaller colleges and universities in MI and OH that are adding scholarship football programs, albeit in the NAIA, there is a concern that it will further delete the available pool of players for the DIII schools, especially in Michigan.  

With the current economic times and the costs of the MIAA schools (most of which are about $10,000 overall less than many of the OAC schools - and even Rose-Hulman in IN), unless a player/his family recieves enough grant-in-aid $, academic and/or community scholarships, etc., to cut the cost about half, they are going to take the "1/2" scholarship offers they recieve from the D2 (and/or NAIA) schools - even though that may only about $9,000 or so and, of course, we're talking about those players that are of the upper tier talent level at high school (and/or are FCS level players or just not quite at the level that the big DI schools are looking for.  The MIAA schools (at least Hope) is just not getting those type of players anymore.  As for Trine and some of the IN schools, while there are several scholarship NAIA programs around, those and the fact that there are only a couple of DII schools in the immediate region (Univ of IN and St. Joseph), it appears to not have affected the smaller schools as much as it has in MI since there are many of the GLIAC DII schools.  Heck, even Wayne State in Detroit, which used to be the laughing stock of the GLIAC and almost dropped football back in the mid-80's, is doing so much better in football and is attracting many good players.  The HC there Paul Winters has done a good job and they even have a good attendance spectator base now to their games.  

One additional big factor (that I've also heard from MIAA coaching staffs) is that, the financial aid packages are less and some families just can't afford it, again, especailly if a 1/2 football scholarship is in the offering.  Also, the admissions departments are getting tougher with the academic standards i.e. there are many very talented high school players who could do excellent in the MIAA as an athlete and would do fine as students, however, they aren't being accepted for admission to the college.  It has been seen where even students who are not athletes with high very high GPA's have not been accepted and some students who are athletes with not as high of GPAs but are good students are not being accepted either - the competition is getting toughter in that regard. Unfortunately, I don't see this changing/improving for the MIAA much in immediate future years (that is my fear), but beyond what I've mentioned here, I don't know what the answer/solutions might be to help the smaller schools for this situation. Although we all know that great team streaks go in cycles (examples, Albion, Augustana, etc.)perhaps Trine will be doing well for a long time and the above factors regarding the DII and NAIA schools not affecting them that much.  Then again, how does one account for the slight downcline in the talent level of some of the other IN DIII schools -wouldn't they be in the same postition as Trine?  Not sure I can answer that.

My apologies for the reiteration of these aspects for those who have already read/heard this in the past discussions.  However, it is important and for those of us who may have not had the chance to be involved in the past discussions, it is relevent. Any other remaining thoughts, anyone?  

[sflzman]

I was comparing Alma's tuition with room and board to like SVSU, GVSU, MSU, and CMU and Alma's easily 15,000-20,000 more.....

[formerd3db]

I was comparing Alma's tuition with room and board to like SVSU, GVSU, MSU, and CMU and Alma's easily 15,000-20,000 more.....

Yes.  Many pages back on this board (I don't recall without scrolling back and this was way back in the late spring or early summer as I recall) during this same discussion, someone posted a very nice list of all the MIAA school's upcoming costs for R&B/Tuition, etc. and it was very interesting.  As with any school anywhere, those figures don't even include all the extra costs that a student/family will spend that year for example on extra food, extra ammenities/supplies for daily living, etc., etc..  So, as you mention, it can be seen that a "1/2 ride" football scholarship offer to a prospective student-athlete at a DII school is going to significantly cut down on that $15,000-$20,000 difference at Alma and many tiimes does in fact make the decision for the athlete/his family.  Add to that any additional monies they may get from community, church, academic scholarships, etc, it really makes an education at a DII even more appealling (unless, of course, there is some specific academic program that a student-athlete really wants at some particular DIII school - provided his family can somehow find the means to pay for that difference in $).  Thanks for the info slfzman.

[sac]

I do think it hurts the MIAA as does the rest of the GLIAC. There are many schools in Michigan that take away very talented players from the MIAA due to athletic acholarship options

GVSU, FSU, SVSU etc carry pretty big rosters even for D2.  There are a bunch of walk-ons at those schools that would do very well in D3.

GVSU has 130 players listed on their roster.   Today they play Michigan Tech who has 102 on the roster.

[formerd3db]

I do think it hurts the MIAA as does the rest of the GLIAC. There are many schools in Michigan that take away very talented players from the MIAA due to athletic acholarship options

GVSU, FSU, SVSU etc carry pretty big rosters even for D2.  There are a bunch of walk-ons at those schools that would do very well in D3.

GVSU has 130 players listed on their roster.   Today they play Michigan Tech who has 102 on the roster.

Actually, that's not too much different than DI regarding relative % of players on scholarship and walk-ons.  As DII schools are only permitted 36 full football scholarships, most of them provide the "1/2" scholarships, although I'm sure some split a few of the scholarships even more so that a certain # of players might only have a 1/3 scholarships, with the remaining players being walk-ons as you mention.  Admittedly, I do no know the exact #'s of how any of the GLIAC schools split some of those, but I know it is done.

I agree with you sac, that those walk-ons would do very well at DIII.  Certainly there are some who transfer to a DIII school when things don't work out the way they planned at DII as far as playing time, or even in some situations, not liking the school and/or its atmosphere in general for whatever reason.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Alma 27, Kazoo 10, early in the 4th!

Albion 31, Adrian 21, early in the 4th.

Scoreboard shows Olivet up on Trine, 51-6, but I've gotta believe they have it reversed - that would be the shocker of 2010!

[Mr. Ypsi]

All finals:

Alma 35, Kazoo 10 (WOW! )

Albion 38, Adrian 21.

Trine 51, Olivet 14 (despite what it shows on 'scoreboard'!)

[formerd3db]

Wow, indeed, Mr Ypsi! Thanks for the summary final scores from today's MIAA games.  It looks like Trine and Albion will be playing for the MIAA title in two weeks, assuming Trine beats Kazoo next week.  The chances of that not happening for a championship showdown are less likey and also since Albion has their "bye" weekend next week.  Once again, as we've all said and seen in the past many times, the MIAA title is coming down to the last week of the season.