FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[02 Warhawk]

Here's a question for our Adrian people:  I see where Adrian cancelled their contract for their game against Franklin for this fall.  As announced on d3football.com as you can see, Franklin has thus replaced them with UWW - a big game for them.  It appears that Adrian has then scheduled Husson.  I am wondering why?  Did Deere feel that he needed a game that would have a better chance at ensuring them a win early in the season? While Adrian's non-conference schedule as is currently posted might give them a good chance at being undefeated going into the MIAA league games, I'm not sure that would count towards having him keep his job if he doesn't win the title eventually in the long run - at least if the administration doesn't change their mind in regards to the precedent they set last year with the Lyall debacle i.e. how they handled that.  Any thoughts from our Adrian friends here?  Just curious.  

Adrian cancelled its game with UWW this fall, not against Franklin. Adrian thought UWW ran the score up on Adrian a little bit last season...plus Adrian's coaching staff never returned any of Lance Leipold's (UWW's head coach) phone calls offering to exchange tape before the game.

there seemed to be a little bad blood leading up to the game as well as after...so Adrian decided to call it quits.

Indeed you are right - i.e. actually, I should have caught that oversight on my part in that Adrian had the two year contract with UWW.  Regardless, it seems to me regardless of whether it was Franklin or UWW that Adrian cancelled out with, it would appear (at least on the surface) that they were looking for an easier game to start out with; also perhaps Husson was the only team available for that date, although from some of the other posts, it appears that was not the case i.e. there were some other teams with openings.  Still, it would seem to be as you say, although I doubt anyone will admit to the real reason for the change.  Too bad.  I was not at the Adrian/UWW game obviously, however, I can't imagine that 35-0 is running up the score, unless there is game film evidence of some really disengenuous play calling on UWW 's part and I find that difficult to believe.  Anyway, all that is "water nder the bridge" as that old saying goes.

Formerd3db,

I do not understand why Adrian cancelled their 2 year contract with UWW. The score was just a reflection on a top level team,IMHO. Maybe a desire to win an easier NC game was the real factor!

I think Adrian's coaching staff may have thought that Lance left his starters in a little too long when the game was already in hand. Plus there were some down field passes that UWW probably didn't need to throw later in the fourth quarter....Besides its not like the game was 50-0, or anything like that.

I think the UWW coaching staff was a little frustrated about Adrian never returning any of their phone calls about possible exchanging of game film...so, I guess there was a lot of tention building up to the game.

If they wanted an easier schedule, then why bother scheduling a two game series in the first place...they knew what they were getting into.

[badgerwarhawk]

Adrian's coach was upset when, leading 28-0 with 6:58 to play, we threw a 46 yard completion from their 49 yard line.  We scored on the next play, a 3 yard run by Booker Stanley.  I guess he felt we weren't suppose to pass anymore.   Forget the fact that we had passed on the previous play, a 12 yard completion, and they had called a time out between the two plays.  Or that they passed four times on their next six play drive.  When the two coaches met after the game he was ranting about our running up the score and threatened to cancel the remaining game.  A few months later he did just that.  Because of the difficulty we have had scheduling DIII nonconference games we allowed Adrian to write the contract and, of course, it did not include a penalty for canceling.  

[sflzman]

Teams get so worked up over the fact of "running up the score"

Bluffton before last cancelled the series with Alma because of running up the score. They then went on to schedule Trine in that slot. Tell me how that fixes your problems...

[dc_has_been]

IMO, it does not look good for Adian.  35-0 is not running up the score and you can not expect a college program to not throw the ball and just run it every down.  Again, IMO, that can lead to injuries if you know that the team is going to run every down and you stack the box with 11 players aiming at the run game. 

[formerd3db]

Raider68, 02Warhawk,badgerwarhawk, sflzman and dc_has_been:

First, Raider68, our colleagues here have answered your question as to why the series was apparently cancelled.  Based on what has been discussed/presented, I would also have to agree with all of you.  If Adrian was using that logic, then, for example, would they- or anyone for that matter - say the same thing about Alma?  By that I mean, Alma for years has had an offense that almost exclusively throws on every down as we all know - although in more recent years, they have added some running plays to mix it up somewha.  Yet, primarily, they are still a passing offense.  Heck, I remember some years where almost every series was pass/pass/pass and/or pass/pass/pass/punt.  So my point is, using the previously discussed logic i.e. Adrian and/or again anyone else, would they then accuse Alma of "running up the score" since they passed on every down and scored?  If one were to be consistent, the answer to that question would be "yes".  However, we all know that consistency is not always a constant.

All that being said, I will stick to my longtime philosophy that if you want to improve the program over time in the longterm, you play the upper tier in non-conference games.  I might be stupid in that philosophy, but...that's just the way my opinion has always been.  Anyway, thanks for the insight and discussion on this guys.  Hope you all are keeping warm during this extreme cold spell.  

[Mr. Ypsi]

formerd3db (just to pull your chain ),

You keep playing IWU, you keep losing (though you often give us a real scare ), so why ain't you winning?!

(Annually you cost me more points in pick-ems than any other team! )

[dc_has_been]

formerd3db- well said!  To be the best you have to beat the best!

[formerd3db]

Thanks, dc_has_been.

Mr. Ypsi:

Your not "pulling my chain" - no problem!  Yours is a legit question.  We've come close a couple of times in the last couple of years.  A couple of the games, as you know, IWU blasted Hope overall throughout the game and obviously deserved to win, even when Hope closed the gap.  Among that was the game that you attended at Hope where I met you - the first in this series as I recall.  One of the others was a close game, especially last year and Hope should have won, however, they just didn't make the plays to win.  As to why, I think that one reason is a general one in that IWU, despite not winning their league every year in this stretch we're talking about, has been a very good team and improved over past years from what they were for quite some time.  Conversely, Hope has obviously not been a good team from what I consider as usual Hope standards in the past 3-4 decades overall.  Yet, also, Hope's secondary has been one reason for the IWU losses (at least the home games) giving up the long TD in those years (The secondary needs to step it up this year and next to improve that IMO).  Also, Hope's offense has just not been explosive in those games, at least from what is the usual.  In the past, when Hope's defense gave up a score, the offense was usually able to come right back (I think of the Wheaton/Hope playoff game that was of high scoring in recent years - without checking back on those schedules, I believe that was the year we played Wheaton twice - once in the regular season and then that playoff game).  Yet, the passing game at both ends for Hope (i.e. throwers/receiviers) has not been what it was in previous years when we seemed to have a ton of receivers who caught everything that was thrown at/to them . I know I'm talking in generalities here as opposed to specifics with regard to the IWU/Hope games of recent (andI guess for that matter, all the games), however, this is what I recall and what is actually my assessment.

One other aspect that I think Hope has to do is to recruit bigger linemen.  While we have several currently (and have in recent years), overall, I think the line on both sides of the ball have been small as compared to the majority of teams we play both in and out-of conderence.  Yet, the "problem" that stems additionally concerning that aspect, is that it is hard for Hope to recruit against the regional DII teams with the financial aspects of the scholarship issues and the overall cost of going to Hope (again, many of us have discussed those aspects on this board and other boards several times).

Having said all that, I think the IWU/Hope game will be good again this year - Hope-fully [pun intented } Hope will have a better showing this year, although it is @ IWU and it is always tough to win on the road in long-distance trips especially early in the season, let alone the first game being the "long ride".  We'll see what happens.  In looking at future years schedules for Hope, IWU is replaced by North Park in 2012.

[formerd3db]

sflzman:

I was not aware of that i.e. Bluffton having cancelled the series for that alleged reason/claim they have apparently made against Alma as you relate - interesting.  Knowing Alma's coaching staff, I find that hard to believe they would do that - in fact, I just do not believe they would do that.  Indeed, as you say, it also doesn't make sense for Bluffton to cancel and add the likes of Trine if they were truly worried about high scores.  I am in no way saying Trine does that or will because I do not think they do - at least I've never observed that whatsoever in the games I've seen them play against us.  But, rather, like you, I'm simply pointing out that Trine will score big against Bluffton because they are so good and of recent Bluffton has been "a not-so-good" team (and that's saying it nicely, no disrespect intended toward Bluffton. ).

[Mr. Ypsi]

former, I meant if you keep playing a 'better' team close, why aren't you winning in the MIAA?  The pick-ems points I was referring to are in the MIAA pick-ems.  Since IMO IWU is a stronger team than anyone in the MIAA (except Trine lately), based on the trouble you give my Titans I keep overpicking Hope against anyone except Trine.

[formerd3db]

former, I meant if you keep playing a 'better' team close, why aren't you winning in the MIAA?  The pick-ems points I was referring to are in the MIAA pick-ems.  Since IMO IWU is a stronger team than anyone in the MIAA (except Trine lately), based on the trouble you give my Titans I keep overpicking Hope against anyone except Trine.

I can understand what you are saying.  This may sound rather unintelligent (stupid? ) on my part, however, I am asking the same question.  As I mentioned, my philosophy has always been that i.e. getting better by playing better teams and over time, that should occur.  Why it hasn't for Hope, again, I am not sure, other than what I've mentioned about the recruiting difficulties that are faced Hope and some of our other MIAA teams - which are legit although obviously not the entire answer.  However, the other part of this is that of the "attitude factor".  By that I mean getting the attitude of confidence in winning back.  Our kids just don't seem to have it, and although some college football fans in general (including some here on our/these boards) say that is the entire responsibility of the coaching staff to instill that, they disagree with me as I do not believe that is the fault of Hope's coaching staff.  As disappointing as it is to say this, our kids have just not picked that up despite the staff being as encouraging and supportive as they can.  As a coach, you can only say and tell players so much i.e the same thing over and over and over, yet if the players do not respond - I'm not talking exclusively of motivation in response but rather players making the same physical mistakes repeatedly- nothing is going to change as far as doing what it takes to win those games i.e. overcoming that hurdle in close games so to speak. Yet, that is exactly what has/is happening.  Overall, talent is just not what Hope has had in past years and again, I think much of that is due to the recruiting issues as I've discussed "ad nauseum" here. But again, many MIAA coaches say the same thing in regards to the latter.  As such, I think the MIAA is going to have a difficult time in the future in trying to get back to that next level (although Trine has appeared to have done it or is at least on the way), and although other small colleges face some of the same financial challenges in recruiting, the DII aspect seems to be a big factor/challenge.

Others here may disagree with me, but that is my opinion (and I'm am close to the program as you well know and some coaches around the league agree with me i.e. have the same overall opinion in regards to the MIAA). So that is my $0.02 worth, for what it's worth!                

[Raider 68]

formerd3db,

How difficult has it been for MIAA teams to schedule non-conference games in general? It it due mainly to geographics or are other factors in play as well? 

[formerd3db]

formerd3db,

How difficult has it been for MIAA teams to schedule non-conference games in general? It it due mainly to geographics or are other factors in play as well? 

Overall, not that difficult from what I've observed.  Aside from the situations that have been discussed recently here and on the other board regarding the cancellation situations of Alma and Adrian (which are rare occurrances in our league), I don't think it has been much of a problem.  The only problem that comes into play with those situations as you know, is trying to fill that exact date or having to add on at the beginning of the season, or...if your league has the luxery of the "bye weekend" like we do, the latter provides some additional options.  However, it still is sometimes difficult to do that in such situations and you might end up scheduling a school that you would never really consider scheduling such as when Alma played Bethany, WV a couple of years in the recent past (or they might end up adding an NAIA program).

As you know, as with almost all schools, the schedules are made up several years in advance.  To use Hope as an example, they are completing the series with a couple of the CCIW schools, but will have North Park and Millikiin still on; while they are adding a series called the NAC/MIAA challenge.  We used to play Wabash and DePauw regularly (and some of our fan base would love to see those schools back on) and we just completed several years with Wheaton.

Also, obviously, the cost and distance factor comes into play and Hope essentially tries to limit their "away" non-conference games to only one long distance trip out of the two (of course, our league has a total of 4 non-conference games with two of those being "home games" obviously).  Our long trip last year was to former MIAA affiliate member now NAC member Wis-Lutheran, however, this year we travel way up in Wisconsin to Lakeland.  That will involve either a very long bus trip "around the horn" via Chicago most likely or...way around the Upper Peninsula (not likely) or...perhpas even the car ferry across Lake Michigan (I have not heard if that is being considerd or not, although I do know Alma College has done that in the past and it is a neat experience for the players, esepcially some who have never had and/or may never get the opportunity to experience that).

And finally, since we're talking about scheduling, in relation to my philosophy about getting better by playing the better teams in one's non-conference schedule, sometimes that is even a more difficult challenge, for example Olivet.  They have perhaps the toughest non-conferenc schedule of anyone last year, this year and next, which in some years wouldn't be as bad, except that they have a new coaching staff and also have unfortunately had to deal with the rebuilding process as their team has been low in stock as far as numbers.  As that old sayiing goes, "timing is everything"and for them, this transition his them inadvertently at an unopportune time.

Overall, the short answer then to your question, I guess, is "not much difficulty".   Sorry for the long discussion, but, what the heck.   Anyway, hope you are doing well and keeping warm!

[Raider 68]

formerd3db,

Thanks for the thorough response! Over time, most of the MIAA schools have in fact sought match-ups with good teams from strong conferences. When a conference has less than ten teams, more opportunies exist to schedule those measurement type games.  

[70_dc_alum]

D3DB I also have some respect for the Alma coaching staff but yes they did have a reputation for running up the score in the late 90's when I was playing.  I remember my freshman year they did chuck the ball around up 65-20 but that is their offense so that is fine but they did throw multiple fades and when we got pissed off was when there was less than 2 minutes left and they kicked a FG to make it 65-20.

We were fired up and we let it fire us up all off season and we were all about revenge!  Following season Alma came to DC and with a 4-0 record only to take a beating where we could do no wrong.  We would have run up the score but we had no defense we finished that year 1-8 only win against Alma!

I can't fault a coach on the opening week leaving his starters in for a while and running his core offense especially if you are only up 28-0.  You have to get your team ready to play.