FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[formerd3db]

Yes, great to see all the discussion on this board!
Now, for "pot-pourri" of topics:

Thanks sflzman, Uncle Rico and OC_SID for the info on the graduation schedules.  Very interesting.  Surprising that Kazoo goes so late (and Olivet also).  Some of the schools, such as Hope and Alma can go that long as well, however, those are for the additional "Spring terms" after the regular second semesters are done.  At Alma (and I assume this has not changed, although perhaps it has), you were required to take two "Spring terms" out of your four years and those could be in any of the four years i.e. didn't have to be in sequence (you could do all four years if you desired).  That was great for guys like my brother who was playing baseball since it was like being in spring training or the regular season like MLB for the years he/they didn't take a spring term - just at the school for baseball for those weeks!  Wow, what a life!  I'd love to go back and do that!  If only...    In addition, I have to agree with you - kind of ironic that Hope will allow graduation ceremonies (and also the start of the fall semester ceremonies) on Sunday, however will not have athletic activities on Sunday.  Obviously, this is done "in the spirit/philosophy) of keeping with the theme of academic importance over athletics, however, IMO, I don't quite agree with the policy of not allowing contests later on Sunday, after church, of course. One could still do that and not take away from either of those important aspects.  Yet, I guess that is the religious philosophy of Hope (and Calvin).

I know we are not supposed to talk politics here, but...I just have to comment on this ThundeHead!   Ouch!  Disappointed to see/hear that you are an Obama supporter - you've got to be kidding I know you are not kidding, however, that being said, I won't hold it against you here!  "To each his own" as that old saying goes.  That's all I will say here publically on this!

As far as the helmet logo: a) sflzman, disappointed that you don't like the block "A" - that IS the Alma College tradition.  Sorry, but I have to say that I hate that  "Scotty dog" logo (even though my brother is an Alma athletic alum and even when I was with Alma -it looks too cartoonish. but again "...to each his own!" If they want to have a scotty dog (instead of the bagpiper) as a second symbol in addition to the traditional "A", then I would much prefer to see a more realistic Scotty dog logo, say for example, similar to the Northwestern Wildcat or Western Michigan's horsehead or Boise State, the Oregon Beaver, Nevada Wolf, etc., etc.
and b) Sorry, Thunderhead, that you will hold off on "The Helmet Club", also, Uncle Rico's Trine "T" logo is very good looking also - and...is a traditional type one as well.  I do like that one.

Anyway, yes, I join in wishing all of you and your families a Happy Easter and weekend.  I'm "Remembering what it is all about."  Talk to you all later.

formerd3db

 

[Raider 68]

formerd3db,

Great post and some good information!

[sflzman]

Formerd3db:

It's funny though, because the "dog" isn't even being used.....they use the "Scotty" mascot as being the Scottish guy with a big head playing bagpipes.

Personally, though, my favorite is the Griffing logo:

[formerd3db]

sflzman:

Yes, that is a great logo also.  I guess it is good that the College has a couple of different ones.  The Scotty dog one that I don't like, as I mentioned, is the "cartoonish" one.  However, I did like the more realistic Scotty dog mascot costume that you are talking about - yet, I do not like that bagpiper "big head" one you mention.  I have been extremely disappointed (and mentioned this before to many of my Hope colleagues and I believe I even posted a comment here one time long ago) that Hope did away with the realistic Flying Dutchman mascot outfit and has now gone to the one depicting Old Dutch - the old Dutchman.  It is a cartoonish one as well and looks hideous, IMO.  Moreover, I personally thought is was a huge waste of $ they spent on this as it was over $5000 for that ridiculous costume that the Student Organization spent for that.  I have never even liked the cartoonish Flying Dutchman logo with him carrying the football (or whatever sport he is used to depict over at Hope) when we had that on our helmets my senior year.  I guess I am just one of those old "fuddy duddy" old guys who loves the old tradition - I love our long-time "H" logo which is like the "Y" Yale has.  I "Hope" ( pun intended!) they keep that one forever.  On the other hand, as I mentioned above, a second logo is not bad either as Hope has our Anchor ("Anchor of Hope: from that Bibical passage and which was used by the founder of Hope College in establishing the community) so I like that one as well.  In fact, although I love the "H" logo as mentioned, I wouldn't be opposed to having an anchor used perhaps once in a while on our helmets (lacorsse team has done that in some years, although this year we used a navy blud "block H").  I have this crazy idea  that it would be neat to use a huge anchor positioned on the top of the helmet so that the huge side ends hook out on the front sides similar to the Michigan wings on their helmet! I wanted us to use that my senior year at Hope "many moons ago" and while we had some support among our teammates for it, we got outvoted!   However, it would have been a neat crazy thing to do at least for one year!!!

Talk to you guys later.

formerd3db

[Uncle Rico]

ThunderHead...It is nothing personal between us.  Our Thunder Alliance superscedes everything.  My in-laws are all from the Lansing area so my disdain for all things spartan stems from that association.  Most tended to be poor losers and now even worse winners.    Hoke and company will eventually right the ship, Tressell will cheat or lie himself out of a job, and the world will return to the way it should.  I have been more bothered by osu's success, and am somewhat disheartened by the belief that in order to compete now at the DI level, it seems like you have to cheat or skirt the rules, and I don't want Michigan to resort to that level, even if "they all do."  So much money is involved that I guess that is the expected consequence. 

In spite of all the seniors leaving in addition to Watt, I think Trine will be better than people think and the drop-off will not be as bad as some feel.  Hargraves looked good in the times he did play.  He is not a freshman either, so that is good.  Plus, Biller will still be back to help shoulder the offensive load.  His play and abilitity have been overshadowed somewhat by Watts skills, but Biller is an awesome RB.  I have heard the linebacking core that returns is very talented.  Trine has been recruiting well, and if the underclassmen can be patient and wait their turn they will be rewarded.  There is a lot of competition for the starting positions now, and players have to realize that even if they were great in high school, nothing is going to be given to them.

[DBQ1965]

Thunderhead ... just wanted you to know there is at least one other Obama supporter around here!

Go Spartans ... and I don't mean MSU.

[Uncle Rico]

Uncle Rico - 3 years is just a start for Coach D and MSU football, and while U of M does hold the overall series lead, we both know recruits only care about what you've done lately.

Rivals has Michigan ranked 21 and msu ranked 31 in recruiting...

http://rivals.yahoo.com/ncaa/football/recruiting/teamrank/2011/all/all

[ThunderHead]

Uncle Rico - Glad our Trine brotherhood super seeds everything, but I would caution you to spend to much time looking at the "star" system. I mean after all, U of M always out recruits MSU on a national level, yet MSU had dominated U of M the last few years with instate recruits, and that trend carried over into this class as well. IMO it's all about how a guy develops within a system, not how many "stars" he has coming into it.

Regarding our Thunder, well - I wasn't sold on Ryan in the time I saw him last season, he didn't come off as an upper tier D3 QB to me that could carry the 29-1 tradition. It would be nice if one of our recruits came in and could start 4 years, it seems like's Eric's been here the past decade, and while it might be to much to ask for another one of him, it'd be great to get a kid who could possibly develop in to that. But the hardest thing to find is a standout QB at this or any level, so fingers crossed.

Maybe the spring game will help clear things up, by the way - you going Uncle Rico?

As for me supporting Obama, well I'll address this here just a little (as I've had some fun on the political boards  ) I guess I am in favor of the common sense party, and 90% of the time that's the democratic party. (per Lee Iocca) I'm a caucasian - Christian, middle class college educated individual  who just didn't drink the "if you're not a Republican you're a terrorist" cool-aid the rest of my family did.  I'll just leave it at that, and DBQ1965 it's good to know you support Obama too. I never worry I'm alone, I know there are many of us.

Well - Have a great Easter, I'll be checking on the board when I can.

Go Trine!

[formerd3db]

DBQ1965:

I won't hold that against you either!   Sorry, but no way can I support Obama - and I'm not a conservative "think you are a terrorist if you are not a Republican". 

Good discussion on the DI issues.  I agree with Uncle Rico, though, that Hoke will "right the ship in the right way" at Michigan.  He was not my first choice (as a fan) for that position (and I was disappointed a bit in some of his choices for position coaches as there were one or two I would have liked to see), however, the more I hear what he has to say and also looking back at what he did with Ball State and San Diego State, the more impressed I am.  Yet, we all know that nothing is guaranteed, so we'll just have to see what transpires as his tenure progresses.  Anything is better than RichRod, sorry.

Also, I have some issues with Dantonio (I know a few inside aspects, but I will not share them here).  On another related topic, I realize you guys have some issues with Tressel.  I have always liked him and I admit that I was surprised at how he handled this recent incident (although there is other aspects behind the scenes that we don't know about and...I fault the players - they have to "man up and take responsibility" for that and I also fault the NCAA in how they handled the situation.  5 game suspension counts for something, yet those players whould have been suspended for the Bowl game.  Yet, one of my students played for Tressel at Youngstown State and I can tell you equivically that he knew all that was going on there and has nothing but good praises for Tressel there.  So I think that some of this bashing, while perhaps some is deserved, some is not.  All of us are not perfect and we make mistakes.  Crucifyiing someone beyond all measure is well beyond the line, IMO (no pun intended on this Easter weekend, seriously).  It is not an equal playing field and the NCAA is to fault for that.  Either you are going to have a consistent policy in enforecement or you might as well let anarchy reign.  Sorry, however, I truly believe that and...I also think that anyone who is truthful with themselves and looks themselves in the mirror would have to agree with that and anyone who does not "hasn't got the the sense that God gave geese".  So that is MO on this.  I will step down from the soap box.

[formerd3db]

Since we're making judgements and handing out "sentences" here (at least what we'd like to see) , I couldn't help but notice the latest piece reporting on miscreant behavior by players:

1) Brandon Marshall, WR for the Miami Dolphins, was stabbed by his wife in a domestic dispute.  She's claiming self-defense; he originally told police he fell and cut himself on a vase at home.  This is not the first time they've "had at each other" and this guy just can't seem to stay away from legal/crimimal troubles.

and

2) Janrios Jenkins, a CB for the University of Florida, was arrested for being caught using marijuana - the second time this year that has happened.  I hope the new coaching staff and administrators at Florida throw the book at this guy and suspend him for the season as well as get him some help in counseling regarding drug use/abuse.  This guys just can't seem to stay away from this stuff and trouble either.

Both of these incidents are sad.  However, no excuses...no excuses.  

[sflzman]

Formerd3db:

Yes, I like Hope's anchor and it is not your "old fuddy duddy-ness"  that dislikes the big cartoonish logos. There is dislike for those from the younger generations as well. - While we're on the topis of hideous mascots, the Stanford Tree and the Syracuse Orange cannot be beaten in this catagory -

As for helmet logos. I like the Alma 100 Year helmet here:
http://cdm15146.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2Fp4045coll5&CISOPTR=9565&DMSCALE=100&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=0&DMX=56&DMY=56&DMTEXT=%2520football&DMTHUMB=1&REC=2&DMROTATE=0&x=287&y=130

But, my favorite by far, is the helmet used in 1970 here:
http://cdm15146.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=%2Fp4045coll5&CISOPTR=7945&DMSCALE=50&DMWIDTH=600&DMHEIGHT=600&DMMODE=viewer&DMFULL=0&DMX=183&DMY=83&DMTEXT=%2520football&DMTHUMB=1&REC=15&DMROTATE=0&x=409&y=396

[Uncle Rico]

Uncle Rico - Glad our Trine brotherhood super seeds everything, but I would caution you to spend to much time looking at the "star" system. I mean after all, U of M always out recruits MSU on a national level, yet MSU had dominated U of M the last few years with instate recruits, and that trend carried over into this class as well. IMO it's all about how a guy develops within a system, not how many "stars" he has coming into it.

Quite simply, msu can't recuit outside the state of Michigan like U of M can.  msu is giving scholarships to "local" kids while Michigan can get kids from across the US.  Hopefully UM can use them is a system that better performs in the Big 10 than Rich Rod did.  I think RR focused too much on his offense and neglected the defense.  Hoke won't make that same mistake.

[ThunderHead]

Fellas,

Well - I agree Coach Hoke will right the ship. Perhaps not in the time frame U of M fans would like, but eventually.

As for MSU not being able to recruit out of Michigan, I would disagree, some of their best players have been out of state guys, especially FL kids. When MSU was unsuccessful however - they paid little attention to the state of Michigan going primarily entirely out of state (John L. Smith ear) and Coach D has done a good job of re-establishing the GREEN in the state o Michigan and landing instate recruits that Michigan has also offered. (every MSU instate recruit this year carried a U of M offer) That says something, there is NO denying that has an impact.

Llyod Carr was recently asked what had to be done to right the ship at Michigan, and his quote "They have to win Michigan first, that's the real key." I think Coach Carr was a stable coach at U of M with old school roots. His assessment I believe is right on, and while U of M may have an arrogant view of their recruiting, it's my experience that recruits care about when they can play. It's a significant issue for them. Nick Saban built his teams primarily with out of state athletes because U of M had all the instate kids. So - MSU went national and was wildly successful.

I know a few of the MSU coaches, as they came via OSU - and as a group I have tremendous respect for the guys I know. As for Coach D's downfalls I have some too, no one's perfect, and everyone makes mistakes, offends someone, or does things not everyone agrees with. But common FormerD3er....you went to Hope, didn't the teach you about the Doctrines of Grace?  We all fall short right? 

I agree RR did focus to much on offense, just as John L did before at MSU. Regardless I think RR was overall a lot of fun to be around, though he was doomed from the start at U of M after the Les Miles debacle. But as they say - winning solves everything right?

Uncle Rico - you still haven't answered my question, you headed to the spring game?

[formerd3db]

ThunderHead:
You've got that right.  I said that too i.e. none of us are perfect, including me. Which was exactly my point about about the reaction to Tressel.  Anyway, I have plenty to answer for myself, however, recently, I don't think I've done anything near the nature of what I mentioned about those two incidents with the two players i.e. Miami NFL and University of Florida .  I would also take responsibility if I did, which, unfortunately, some of those people never do and they have plenty of apologists making excuses for them. But yes, to your question, I know about that and I think I adhere to Matthew 6: 14-15

I've known some of the MSU people myself over the years.  I think Dantonio is a good coach and has good intentions.  However, I just think he has handled some fo the discplinary issues poorly, which seems to be a common theme at Michigan State over the years with head coaches dating back a few decades (except for Daugherty, Munn and even Stolz - the latter was the scapegoat for activities done without his knowledge - he was just the scapegoat because he was the head man - another topic which I have issues with). And don't even get me going on Saban.  He was the guy who pimped your Simmrel at Toledo (Saban has done that to many - he's a nomad, like Kelly and some other current coaches in the spotlight).  Coach Simmrel is a good guy and coach - but you already knew that.


Oh, but this is Easter so I better tone it down on this stuff for now.  Anyway, good discussion everyone.  Our board has been "hopping as of late" and that is good fun.

[formerd3db]

sflzman:

Thanks for the additional comments and logos!  Yes, those two are good also.  Wasn't sure if you know this, however, I was involved in assisting in the design of the 100th year football Centennial Celebration logo at Alma.