FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

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ThunderHead

#5565
May 21, 2011, 02:10:34 PM Last Edit: May 21, 2011, 02:12:33 PM by ThunderHead
I didn't know Coach Brewster personally, so I really can't comment on him, other then I'm not sure he understood the Big Ten.

Now Coach Kill, I'm fortunate enough to be able to speak toward him as a person, not just a coach. He's a survivor (cancer) and a winner (every program he's ever been at), he demands much of himself, his staff and his athletes, while at the same time creating relationships and bonds that makes guys wanna put in all kinds of extra effort. (as opposed to resenting him)

He may do some house cleaning, but the guys who stay will become both better athletes and better people. He's first class all the way, I can't say enough good things about him or his character. I have no doubt that within a few years he will have Gopher nation in good shape.
Education is what you get from reading the small print. Experience is what you get from not reading it.

wisd3fan2

#5566
May 22, 2011, 12:30:58 AM
Hi MIAA fans. I am happy to say that I am going to join your board. Myself and a couple of my buddies are becoming Trine University fans. I have been reading this board for a few weeks and I see that you have many people that know a great deal about football and the MIAA. You have taught me a lot. We are from Wisconsin and look forward to coming to as many games as we can. Nice to meet you all!

Go Thunder

ThunderHead

#5567
May 22, 2011, 01:44:10 AM
Welcome to the board. Glad you are joining the community.

What part of Wisconsin are you from and are you following anyone in particular at Trine? It's a great program and an exciting time to be a football fan in Angola.

The seasons getting closer and soon enough it will be on us, I personally can't wait! Again, welcome!

Go Trine!!!
Education is what you get from reading the small print. Experience is what you get from not reading it.

sflzman

#5568
May 22, 2011, 03:14:44 PM
Quote from: wisd3fan2 on May 22, 2011, 12:30:58 AM
Hi MIAA fans. I am happy to say that I am going to join your board. Myself and a couple of my buddies are becoming Trine University fans. I have been reading this board for a few weeks and I see that you have many people that know a great deal about football and the MIAA. You have taught me a lot. We are from Wisconsin and look forward to coming to as many games as we can. Nice to meet you all!

Go Thunder

Sure you guys don't wanna become Scots fans? I'm kinda a lone ranger on this board  ;)
Be not afraid of greatness - Shakespeare

formerd3db

#5569
May 22, 2011, 05:24:56 PM
I'll jump in here with a couple of comments regarding a couple of the recent discussions.  First, I don't know Coach Kill, however, I agree with ThunderHead that I think he will do well at Minnesota given his previous records.  I, however, do remember him from his tiime at DII Saginaw Valley State and he did a fine job with that program before moving on back to his native Kansas (and Emporia State) for a couple of years before then going to the Illinois universities as you all already know.  He has done well with every program and stability of his coaching staff i.e. assistants he has had with him for several years has been an important factor, IMO.  I also think that is what helped Ray Smith at Hope when he had his best years, at least in the first two decades.  Minnesota is a difficult place to coach (sflzman knows and can fill us in on that), but again, I think if anyone can have some success there, it will be Kill.

Second, regarding the defenses, some of you will think I am crazy, however, my favorite has been the 5-3 with the nose guard.  Michigan and Hope used to run that.  IMO, even with today's wide-open pass oriented offenses, that defense could do well, although some of you will certainly disagree with me on this.

Last but not least, welcome to you new guys to our board.  The firestorm of posts/discussion here in recent weeks have really been exciting and perhaps more activity than we've ever had in comparison to the early years.  Anyway, if you all keep this up, I can see an even greater fall of discussion than we had last year.  Anyway, talk to you all later.

"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

ThunderHead

#5570
May 22, 2011, 06:03:55 PM
formerD3db,

The 5-3. Boy I think that would be difficult to run in today's spread and isolate offensive world. You're committing 8 to the box, leaving 3 to defend the rest of the field. (assuming you don't walk anyone out or buzz anyone down)

So - while I think the 5-3 had it's day, I'm not sure it could systemically compete in today's game without some major alterations within it's responsibility make-up. I think you would have to have a very old school OC to compete against to bring back the very old school 5-3.

Go Trine!!!
Education is what you get from reading the small print. Experience is what you get from not reading it.

formerd3db

#5571
May 22, 2011, 06:47:29 PM
ThunderHead:

Oops!  What an idiot I am. ::) :-[ ;D  I meant the 5-2, not 5-3; again, both Michigan and Hope used to run that.  The 5-2 could, indeed, line up with today's spread offenses because you have 4 DB's, one of which is your "Monster Back" or whatever term a team uses for that position.  These 4 are used in essentially the same manner as today's Cover 2 or Cover 3 schemes - Man-to-Man or Zone with good variations in rotations.  With regard to the rotation patterns, IMO, it is much easier to cover the many WR's in the various spread offenses.  Obviously, no defense is perfect or "play proof", however, I think the 5-2 can still be an effective defense in today's game.  Sorry for the error in relating this in my original post.
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

ThunderHead

#5572
May 22, 2011, 08:39:11 PM Last Edit: May 22, 2011, 08:41:21 PM by ThunderHead
Formerd3db,

Ahhh, the 5-2, well that does make more sense, and yes I believe that could be effective with the right personnel and correct coaching staff.

This said, I might ad, that it's my experience most 4-3 programs do grind in a 5-2 kind of way, when they walk the backer up into an "eagle" (per say) position to the TE side and under roll the A gap defensive interior to the weak side. Teams will then often buzz guys into and out of the box with that look, often for window dressing purposes only.  :)

Go Trine!!!
Education is what you get from reading the small print. Experience is what you get from not reading it.

formerd3db

#5573
May 22, 2011, 11:21:22 PM
ThunderHead:

Thanks for the follow-up and I agree with your assessment.  It won't work for every game, which is also another reason why - if at all possible - teams can be great if they can run two different defenses, or at least variations.  Not every team is talented enough to do so, yet, if/when that occurs, they are great teams.  Besides, I love the great middle guards over the years of the various teams that I know of who have run that 5-2 defense.  Two of my all-time favorites and who I think rank among the greatest at that position are...1) Don Warner of Michigan (U of M's "Rudi" and an All-Big Ten player) and 2) the late Dave Yeiter of Hope College, who both played in the 1970's. 
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

DBQ1965

#5574
May 23, 2011, 07:36:13 AM
With all this talk about what is the best defense, I remember my old high school coach (back in the days of black high-tops and leather helmets) saying over and over ... "The best defense is a hard charging line."

GO SPARTANS!
Reality is for those who lack imagination 😀

sflzman

#5575
May 23, 2011, 07:48:35 AM
You know, the other defense that I really wonder would work in college is the 1-5-5. I know there was a high school team over in Flint that has used it the last two years, because they are high in speed, but have no size....I can't remember which school right now.

But I wonder if it could work, you obviously need speed, and linebackers that could rush hard, but with all the spread offenses it might not be a bad idea. It also would be interesting to see how an offense would adjust when you potentially could drop 10 guys back in coverage.....
Be not afraid of greatness - Shakespeare

formerd3db

#5576
May 23, 2011, 08:19:06 AM
DBQ1965:
Great quote and so true!

sflzman:
I am originally from Flint, so I should know the answer to that as well, however, admittedly I do not.  Anyway, that sounds like a wild defense and would be neat to see.  I think it just might work against your Alma College's "Scot-Gun" offense!  Perhaps someone should take a chance and try it against Alma - you know, put it in just for that game and only for part of a quarter to see how it goes! :) Seriously.  However, not sure if any H.C. would be willing to do that.  On the other hand, perhaps you could find a crazy coach at some "renegade" college to do it - what the heck! ;D  What would they have to lose, especially if you only tried it for part of a quarter.  Or, in that regard, perhaps one of those new college programs might be the choice to try it since new programs usually don't win very many games in their first year or two.    Anyway, I've never seen that defense but it would be "a blast" to see it just for once.
"When the Great Scorer comes To mark against your name, He'll write not 'won' or 'lost', But how you played the game." - Grantland Rice

Diezel1

#5577
May 23, 2011, 05:23:38 PM
Being a Trine graduate, I am now partial to the 3-4. I think you can disguise your look much easier in the 3-4 than you can in the 4-3, 4-4, or even the 4-2-5 and heres why:

1.)In the 4-3, most outside linebackers are limited in what they can do in this system. You are either good at filling gaps or quick enough to get out in coverage, which causes a mismatch in either the run game or pass game.
2.) In the 4-4, your main objective is fill the box and get the ball out of the qb's hand quick to make short pass plays where most of your defenders are. Problem is with spread offenses you don't have enough speed on the field when they stretch you out.
3.)In the 4-2-5, it is very easy to designate the "rover" or whatever the team chooses to name it. And once again, at this level most rovers' skill sets are one way, pass or run. This now creates a weakness because you have to scheme on how to cover that up. If the rover plays back, you audible to a run or something quick. If he is in the box, you go to the other side of the field because you are out leveraged.

I know if you look at each defense they are all basically the same thing just lining up differently and with different personnel but with the 3-4 you can apply a ton of pressure on the qb or still stop the run, the outside linebackers have speed so they can rush off the edge or drop in coverage which helps tremendously against a spread attack. Just my two cents on the topic  :)

ThunderHead

#5578
May 23, 2011, 06:55:31 PM
I do like the 3-4, but you need one bad a@# Nose to run that effectively. And I mean - one that's bad bad Leroy Brown bad... ;)

Go Trine!!!
Education is what you get from reading the small print. Experience is what you get from not reading it.

Raider 68

#5579
May 23, 2011, 08:53:29 PM
Have not had much time for the boards, due to selling house and moving, but the dialogue that I have seen is great! :)
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