FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[formerd3db]

Raider68:
I wondered where you had been.  I knew that you were moving, although actually I thought you were done with the process and perhaps you and your wife were on vacation.  Glad to have you back (and lurking around when you are not!).

Diezel1:
Good comments.

ThunderHead:
Yes, for sure, one has to have a touch nose guard and one that is really fast for those defenses that utilize that position.  You can't have a "panzy" or a sieve there - they'll get killed or get someone else killed - like us poor db's!

[ThunderHead]

Raider68 - Glad you're well, I hope your move went well. I've done that a few times, it can be a bit stressful, especially if the wife ain't happy.  

formerd3db: Funny you say "poor" DB, when I broke into coaching I was assigned Corner backs, and let me tell you, some of the craziest SOB's I ever met in life where 5 foot nothing 100 and nothing corners. Flat out nut cases that went 150 mph every where, including into the back of some poor 6'4'' QB's mid-section. (they loved the old Corner fire)

I will admit though I never had more fun in my life then when I was coaching corner backs, they live hard and player hard, and can trash talk with the best of them. The first, and I mean FIRST question I was asked on the first day of meetings before practice started was this: "Coach what's your policy on trash talking?"

To which I replied "I don't know, what's your policy on backing up your trash talk?"

I only got a BIG   back - good times.

SO I've got a lotta respect for you guys in the backfield.

[formerd3db]

ThunderHead:

Thanks for a great post re: db's!  That is very neat and I know exactly what you mean.  What you relate is so true; at Hope back in my day and thereafter, we had some of the very same type (and size ) of CB's - indeed, those guys were crazy!  They were very, very good, so much so, that there was a string of some 12 years or so (I can't remember the exact # without looking it up in the record book right now) in which those we had at least one of those "smaller guys"i.e. a db selected to the ALL-MIAA first team defense every year.  I was actually a free safety but I guess I kind of fit the mode because I loved to free roam and hit people as a "head-hunter" (although legally of course ) but also the great opportunity of either doing that or grabbing an INT.  Also, like you, when I had the wonderful opportunity to coach in college, I was an assistant db coach and loved teaching and seeing these tough smaller guys in action, just as you relate in your own experience. Of course, today, one has to be somewhat careful as much of that type of "head hunting" play style is going by the wayside i.e. being disallowed, obviously due to safety concerns and the rules changes regarding this.  Anyway, thanks for sharing a great story.

[Raider 68]

ThunderHead:

Thanks for a great post re: db's!   That is very neat and I know exactly what you mean.  What you relate is so true; at Hope back in my day and thereafter, we had some of the very same type (and size ) of CB's - indeed, those guys were crazy!  They were very, very good, so much so, that there was a string of some 12 years or so (I can't remember the exact # without looking it up in the record book right now) in which those we had at least one of those "smaller guys"i.e. a db selected to the ALL-MIAA first team defense every year.  I was actually a free safety but I guess I kind of fit the mode because I loved to free roam and hit people as a "head-hunter" (although legally of course ) but also the great opportunity of either doing that or grabbing an INT.  Also, like you, when I had the wonderful opportunity to coach in college, I was an assistant db coach and loved teaching and seeing these tough smaller guys in action, just as you relate in your own experience. Of course, today, one has to be somewhat careful as much of that type of "head hunting" play style is going by the wayside i.e. being disallowed, obviously due to safety concerns and the rules changes regarding this.  Anyway, thanks for sharing a great story.

formerd3db, Thunderhead,

Thanks for the kind words. when you move it is always tough (we have moved 7 times in 38 yrs). This move was a downsizing one from a large home, probably the most difficult, since you sell or give away alot.

On the subject of DB's, I have always thought the position was one of the most difficult to play and the most risky in terms of exposure. One wrong step and it is 6 pts, while other defensive positions are more forgiving!

Formerd3db knows all about that!

[ThunderHead]

Raider and fromerd3db: you guys are exactly right, the defensive backfield is an unforgiving position.

I think that "dbs" can be made to look bad right from the initial chalk board concept. Things on the board can look good drawn up, but can often be unrealistic to execute on the field. When a corner per say has to cover the deep third because you're rolling a strong side backer and you have to then roll under a high safety to compensate in the hook zones, well the corner is in a very difficult position without a sink release, (which he can't do in the pre-snap because it would effectively give the play away) well - now, even though on paper the "lines" make sense, getting the corner in position to "cover" that correctly is difficult if not impossible on the field.

And yet, when the plan fails because the corner is out of position defending the boundary with an endzone extension, all I hear is "that @#$ corner can't cover @#$#!" by the linebackers coach who drew the play up to make his backers look good.

Oh - good times - spending half the post-game meeting defending my guys on the absurdity of the drawn up responsibilities. (this is why in-game adjustments are often not a good way to go IMO unless absolutely necessary.) This is why I always loved Morris Watts philosophy "unless we can run the @#! thing in practice 100 times perfectly we aren't calling it in a @#$ game!" (as you can imagine, he was old school and had a relatively small playbook. But boy could his squad execute it.)

Go Trine!!!

[sflzman]

Raider68 - Glad you're well, I hope your move went well. I've done that a few times, it can be a bit stressful, especially if the wife ain't happy.  

formerd3db: Funny you say "poor" DB, when I broke into coaching I was assigned Corner backs, and let me tell you, some of the craziest SOB's I ever met in life where 5 foot nothing 100 and nothing corners. Flat out nut cases that went 150 mph every where, including into the back of some poor 6'4'' QB's mid-section. (they loved the old Corner fire)

I will admit though I never had more fun in my life then when I was coaching corner backs, they live hard and player hard, and can trash talk with the best of them. The first, and I mean FIRST question I was asked on the first day of meetings before practice started was this: "Coach what's your policy on trash talking?"

To which I replied "I don't know, what's your policy on backing up your trash talk?"

I only got a BIG   back - good times.

SO I've got a lotta respect for you guys in the backfield.

Sounds like our boy Andrew Funsch up here....he truly is the most fearless guy I've ever seen play based off of body size

[sflzman]

Raider and fromerd3db: you guys are exactly right, the defensive backfield is an unforgiving position.

I think that "dbs" can be made to look bad right from the initial chalk board concept. Things on the board can look good drawn up, but can often be unrealistic to execute on the field. When a corner per say has to cover the deep third because you're rolling a strong side backer and you have to then roll under a high safety to compensate in the hook zones, well the corner is in a very difficult position without a sink release, (which he can't do in the pre-snap because it would effectively give the play away) well - now, even though on paper the "lines" make sense, getting the corner in position to "cover" that correctly is difficult if not impossible on the field.

And yet, when the plan fails because the corner is out of position defending the boundary with an endzone extension, all I hear is "that @#$ corner can't cover @#$#!" by the linebackers coach who drew the play up to make his backers look good.

Oh - good times - spending half the post-game meeting defending my guys on the absurdity of the drawn up responsibilities. (this is why in-game adjustments are often not a good way to go IMO unless absolutely necessary.) This is why I always loved Morris Watts philosophy "unless we can run the @#! thing in practice 100 times perfectly we aren't calling it in a @#$ game!" (as you can imagine, he was old school and had a relatively small playbook. But boy could his squad execute it.)

Go Trine!!!

I think the word you're looking for there is "dang" 

[Flying Dutchman56]

Diezel1,

Thanks for your comments and I couldn't agree more with the below points more in regards to the 4-3, 4-4, and a standard 4-2-5!  Those are some of the major reasons I like the 4-2-5 so much the way Hope runs it.  I would only like to add with Hope's defense the difference between a standard 4-2-5 and Hope's D is they have 2 and not 1 "rover" or hybrid linebacker/ safety positions and they play them throughout the game as both db's and lb's throughout the game as needed.  This eliminates the ability for a offense to quickly read the defensive coverage.  Which also gives them the ability to adjust as needed into 3-4, 4-3, and 4-4 coverage sets quickly and without warning.  To me a good defense its kinda like fishing, there is no one magic lure or bait to always catch fish, but the right bait or lure at the right time with the correct presentation and its dinner in the frying pan....no different than 1 defense set can cover/ stop it all - which is why I personally like the versitially of Hope's defense so much and why I feel Hope has had so much success over the years - again just my thoughts as well.  If poster's on this board remembers Matt Beaver (All - MIAA 2003) or Matt Rugienstien (All American 2006) of Hope Collage (DE's) they would understand the way the 4-2-5 allows for some extreme versatilty with the right athletes given they would be playing in a two point on the end of the line one play in a 4-2-5 , the next they could be in coverage as an outside linebacker with the same personal in a 3-4, and another they could be lined up in a 3 point in a 4-3 or 4-4, the options are endless!  The toughest defensive sets I ever went against were in practice as an OL at Hope in route to back to back MIAA titles as a junior and senior.  I hope everyone sees what I'm getting at which is the 4-2-5 isn't anything special nor is the 3-4, the 4-3 or the 4-4, its the way a coordinator choices to utilize his defensive playbook which is the real key.  I appreciate everyone's comments on this!



Being a Trine graduate, I am now partial to the 3-4. I think you can disguise your look much easier in the 3-4 than you can in the 4-3, 4-4, or even the 4-2-5 and heres why:

1.)In the 4-3, most outside linebackers are limited in what they can do in this system. You are either good at filling gaps or quick enough to get out in coverage, which causes a mismatch in either the run game or pass game.
2.) In the 4-4, your main objective is fill the box and get the ball out of the qb's hand quick to make short pass plays where most of your defenders are. Problem is with spread offenses you don't have enough speed on the field when they stretch you out.
3.)In the 4-2-5, it is very easy to designate the "rover" or whatever the team chooses to name it. And once again, at this level most rovers' skill sets are one way, pass or run. This now creates a weakness because you have to scheme on how to cover that up. If the rover plays back, you audible to a run or something quick. If he is in the box, you go to the other side of the field because you are out leveraged.

I know if you look at each defense they are all basically the same thing just lining up differently and with different personnel but with the 3-4 you can apply a ton of pressure on the qb or still stop the run, the outside linebackers have speed so they can rush off the edge or drop in coverage which helps tremendously against a spread attack. Just my two cents on the topic 

[sflzman]

I think the real thing with this topic is that all defenses can be beaten, and every one here that we've put out has ways to be beaten. That's exactly why you can't truly just line up in one defense and say "come beat me" thats the way you lose football games. You have to go after them, and beat them.

[Raider 68]

Who will be the stars this fall in the MIAA?

[BOYA87]

Raider68, I wish I would have known you were moving!  I could have used some of that old stuff you were trying to unload   haha.  I just bought my first house in Angola a meer 3 blocks from where my Thunder play!  Its been pretty exciting!

along the lines of DB talk, I was a receiver.  But let me tell you what, I have great respect for good DB's.  The receiver has a distinct advantage knowing exactly when and where cuts will be made and where holes will be in the defense.  But a good corner with the ability to read body language and break quickly on a ball is impressive!  so although I enjoyed trash talking all our DB's in practice and in games, I definitely respect them! (most at least)

[ThunderHead]

Boya87: Three blocks from the field uh? Sound's like I found a spot for my post-game tailgating.

Go Trine!!!

PS - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7v8kLm3qvNM    

[sac]

I know Mr Y and formerd3db would probably like to see this   http://mgoblog.com/content/lacrosse-announcement-press-conference-notes

Michigan made men's and women's lacrosse official varsity sports today.



For the rest of you, carry on.

[sflzman]

Who will be the stars this fall in the MIAA?

Offense

Rushing: The obvious answer is Clinton Orr, and Jared Edwards running the ball.

Receiving: I look at JC Cruise, Mitch Gabriel, and either Austin Montgomery, Barak Henderson, or Michael Lenneman, whoever becomes Jarrett Leister's favorite target.

Passing: The MIAA was so veteran it's tough to know what's going to come from the replacements, so the safe pick to say is Spencer Krauss and Jarrett Leister.

Defense

D-Line: Sorry I can't give any insight on this position, because honestly this isn't my prediction and I don't want to give you my opinion based on stats alone.

Linebackers: I think that the obvious leader of the MIAA linebackers will be either Conrad Bovee or Tony Brown. It will be interesting who can elevate their game more in the off-season. I would predict over 115 total tackles for each of the two.

DBs: I look for Scotty Cole and Kyle Warren to repeat the great success they had last year in the defensive backfield. Adam Powers is another one that can be good, but I'm not sure he's going to rack up stats like Cole and Warren.

[ThunderHead]

Who will be the stars this fall in the MIAA?

Oh boy - I think at this point it's to tough to call. At the spring game they didn't run, and most of the starters were out. The QB spot is still up in the air.

Can't wait for August.

Go Trine!!!