FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Raider 68]

To all those fellow Veterans, Thank you for your service to our country. Have a safe and thoughtful Memorial Day!

[ThunderHead]

Raider68,

Good stuff. My brother is in the Military and he has been home on leave for the last two weeks. It was great to see him and spend some time with him, (it's been 2 and half years since I saw him last) he flies back to CA tomorrow morning and then will be deployed again in July.

I'm very very grateful to all the men and women, past and present, who make the US what it is and give us the freedom to have forums just like this.

Have a great holiday weekend everyone.

GO USA!!!

[BOYA87]

Sorry d3db, I did miss that!  it just seems I cant miss a day on this thing anymore or else I have pages of reading to catch up on!

On the note of safety I would like to bring up a topic for debate which, depending on the response, may get heated on my behalf!

all of us being sports fans I am sure most of us witnessed the Buster Posey injury at home plate on sports center or at some point yesterday.  What is your take on it?!  clean, dirty?  Part of the game?  change the rules?

[BOYA87]

broadcasters are talking about catcher being the "most dangerous position in sports"?!?!?!  are you kidding me?!  How many of these plays do you get to see in a game? week?  YEAR?!  This is the most exciting play in baseball, which rarely happens, and yet it is a play that football players experience for 2 hours straight!  The catcher fully understands the risk he takes when blocking the plate (Posey didnt even have the ball when he decided to put his body in the base path...oops).

They are also talking about protecting the teams investments in these players.  Its funny how quickly the conversation turned from safety to $$$$$$$$$$...or however many zeros are in his paycheck!

All these sports are upsetting me with how they are changing the games.  you want to limit injuries on the field?!  Increase drug testing policies and you will find athletes with healthier, more durable bodies, and you wont have every linebacker looking like Mr. Universe taking everyones head off in the middle of the field.

[ThunderHead]

The Posey deal is a part of the game IMO.

At younger levels when it comes to plays at the plate, the rule is "slide OR avoid contact" - meaning the only way contact can occur when the umpire feels a "developing play" is occurring is for the player to be sliding. He CAN stand up, jump over or tip toe around the catcher, he doesn't have to slide, but if there is contact of any type with the catcher, the umpire has the discretion to call the player out for technically "making contact without sliding". (House rules in some local leagues require a slide on all plays that are considered "close" by the plate umpire. However national rules have the "OR" clause.)

I think this is appropriate at the youth levels, as a safety measure. But at the professional level I believe it's just how the game is played. The collision in baseball is an overall rare occurrence and a knee jerk reaction to a rare incident isn't the answer. Sometimes - crap happens and that sucks, but that doesn't mean you go re-think everything and changing rules like it's a major occurrence resulting in dozens of injuries a year in MLB and demands immediate attention.

Just my opinion.

Go Trine!!!

[DBQ1965]

The Posey deal is a part of the game IMO.

At younger levels when it comes to plays at the plate, the rule is "slide OR avoid contact" - meaning the only way contact can occur when the umpire feels a "developing play" is occurring is for the player to be sliding. He CAN stand up, jump over or tip toe around the catcher, he doesn't have to slide, but if there is contact of any type with the catcher, the umpire has the discretion to call the player out for technically "making contact without sliding". (House rules in some local leagues require a slide on all plays that are considered "close" by the plate umpire. However national rules have the "OR" clause.)

I think this is appropriate at the youth levels, as a safety measure. But at the professional level I believe it's just how the game is played. The collision in baseball is an overall rare occurrence and a knee jerk reaction to a rare incident isn't the answer. Sometimes - crap happens and that sucks, but that doesn't mean you go re-think everything and changing rules like it's a major occurrence resulting in dozens of injuries a year in MLB and demands immediate attention.

Just my opinion.

Go Trine!!!

I think lowering your shoulder and banging into the catcher like that is in the same class as sliding in with your spikes high.  It doesn't belong in the game.

[RuleBritannia]

Hello! I hope everyone is having an enjoyable summer.

If you guys are like me, you're going a little "football crazy" right now. Well gridiron lovers, fear not, as I will help you get your football fix by providing you with a little early preview of the Albion College Britons and their quest to win their 34th MIAA championship this fall.

Personnel:

Quarterback: Spencer Krauss returns for Albion as a third year starter at quarterback. After struggling in his first year starting, Spencer seemed to begin to be settling in last season, he was no doubt helped by an offensive line that allowed the fewest sacks in the league. Krauss must improve on his 12/10 touchdown/INT ration though, and improve his accuracy and timing on medium distance routes. His deep ball, though, is very good.

Backup Alex Harris has some starting experience and would capable of filling in if necessary.

Running Back: With the graduation of Trine's Eric Watt, Albion junior Clinton Orr becomes probably the most notable offensive player in the MIAA this fall. Last season Orr carried the ball for 1396 yards and 14 TDs. Orr has all the components looked for in a RB, exceptional speed, great agility, decent power, an ability to make tacklers slip off of him, and durability. This last aspect is key because the Britons championship hopes likely rest on his ability to stay healthy.

FB Wes Dolen provides a more powerful change of pace back who excels at receiving out of the backfield.

Receiver: I think someone a few pages back mentioned JC Cruse as playing for Albion this fall. JC Cruse has graduated. Returning for Albion is Brian Spencer, who is a productive receiver, though he lacks Cruse's explosive speed. Spencer had 40 catches for 506 yards and 2 TDs last fall. With Spencer will be Zach Brewer, who had 14 catches for 119 yards and 2 TDs as a 3rd WR last fall. The ability of Spencer and Brewer to stretch the field to open things up for Clinton Orr will be a crucial factor in making the Briton's offense a productive one.

Offensive Line: Last Season the Briton's offensive line allowed the fewest sacks in the league and opened holes for the league's most productive runner. 3 full time starters return from this group. They include 1st team all MIAA selection Shane Jessiel at tackle, 2nd team all MIAA selection Josh Phillips, also at tackle, and guard Justin Jevicks. Center Brice Johnson started for part of last season, sharing time with the graduated Matt Bilger. With the talent returning, and provided the new group can "gel" as is so critical for the offensive line, this should be a position of strength for the Britons.

Defensive Line: Last season the Briton defense was anchored by 3 all-MIAA selections on their 4 man defensive front: DEs Jeremy Green and Neil Copeland, and NT Austin Rodgers. Replacing this production will be the most difficult part of the rebuilding process for the 2011 Britons. Returning at DL are one-time MIAA defensive player of the week (has to count for something right?) Julian Packsi at DT, and part time starter Jacob Heinrich, who can play either position. The other two positions are effectively question marks for now.

Linebackers: The Britons return their entire linebacking stable for 2010, including the teams leading tackler Tony Brown, as well as CJ Caroll and John Lesinski, both who had more than 35 total tackles. Their jobs will only get tougher this season without the veteran defensive line playing in front of them, however.

Secondary: 2 time 1st team all-MIAA selection, and one time DIII all-American Chris Greenwood leads the Briton secondary at cornerback. He's partner-in-pass defense Dustin Hess, however, graduates. Sophomore Jace Garcia will likely be the new starter at the other cornerback. Strong Safety Devin Burnett, who was second on the team in tackles, returns, but Free Safety Aaron Dolkowski graduates. There are, however, a bevy of capable candidates to replace him, including likely front runner Wes Sherman.

Special Teams:

Kicker/Punter: Mychal Galla, a 4 year starter at kicker, and 3 year starter at punter, graduates. Incoming freshmen Charlie Hess will likely replace him, at least at kicker. Punter is still a question mark.

Returners: Chris Greenwood was the primary punt returner last year, while Clinton Orr and Adam Shiremen returned kicks, all return.

Schedule: The Britons open with their usual tough non-conference slate. They will travel to Indianapolis on September 3rd to take on the Butler Bulldogs, then on the 10th, to Wheaton, Illinois to take on the powerhouse Thunder. Their first home game is the 17th as UW-Stevens Point makes the long bus ride to Michigan. A win in any one of those 3 games will be a great sign for the Britons.

The conference schedule opens one the road as Albion will try to get revenge on the pesky Kalamazoo Hornets who upset the Britons in Albion last year. Jamie Zorbo's passing oriented attack has given the Briton's defense fits two of the last three years.

Next the Britons take on an improved Alma squad at home. The last time the Scots traveled to Albion they left in ignominious 60-10 defeat. The Scots will no doubt have revenge on their mind this year.

Albion travels to Michigan's west coast to take on the rival Flying Dutchmen in Holland. One of the most heated and most even rivalries in the MIAA will renew, with Hope and Albion splitting the last 4 meetings. No motivation will be required to get the Britons fired up for this one.

Albion renews the oldest rivalry west of the Alleghenies as they return home to play the Comets of Olivet. Olivet has dropped the last 3 meetings by increasingly lopsided scores. However, I suspect Olivet will play a little better this year (they can't play much worse  )

Albion finishes with a road date at always tough Adrian, then takes a break from conference action to travel to Depauw, another tough in-region opponent.

Albion concludes with a home match up against the Thunder of Trine University, the 3 time defending conference champion. The Briton's championship hopes likely rest on the result of this game.

Outlook: The Britons have a seasoned group returning on offense and defense. If the Britons can fill their holes, especially on the defensive line, they should be in the mix of things. However, their are a number of teams to be wary of in the MIAA. Trine, obviously, is the odds-on favorite to win the things again, after dominating all comers last season. Adrian always seems to put together a solid squad, while Alma looks to be much improved with a good QB, while always talented Hope lurks as a possible dark horse.

Finally, anyone traveling to Sprankle-Sprandel Stadium this fall notice the new artificial turf field now being installed. This should only improve the atmosphere at this historic venue. (Now if we could just do something about that press box  ) So I hope all of you who's teams are playing at Albion this year will come down and see a game. Also I hope those of you with knowledge of your respective teams will try to offer similar insights of how you envision your squad lining up.

[ThunderHead]

RuleBritannia: I think many of us are feeling a bit football deprived.  Good post, looking forward to the season.

DBQ: I see your point to an extent, though I think sliding in with your cleats up is a bit different, as the runner is also risking injury with a collision, where as a guy coming in with his cleats up really isn't.

Body on body contact is different in my opinion then equipment on body contact.

Go Trine!!!

[sflzman]

The Posey deal is a part of the game IMO.

At younger levels when it comes to plays at the plate, the rule is "slide OR avoid contact" - meaning the only way contact can occur when the umpire feels a "developing play" is occurring is for the player to be sliding. He CAN stand up, jump over or tip toe around the catcher, he doesn't have to slide, but if there is contact of any type with the catcher, the umpire has the discretion to call the player out for technically "making contact without sliding". (House rules in some local leagues require a slide on all plays that are considered "close" by the plate umpire. However national rules have the "OR" clause.)

I think this is appropriate at the youth levels, as a safety measure. But at the professional level I believe it's just how the game is played. The collision in baseball is an overall rare occurrence and a knee jerk reaction to a rare incident isn't the answer. Sometimes - crap happens and that sucks, but that doesn't mean you go re-think everything and changing rules like it's a major occurrence resulting in dozens of injuries a year in MLB and demands immediate attention.

Just my opinion.

Go Trine!!!

I think lowering your shoulder and banging into the catcher like that is in the same class as sliding in with your spikes high.  It doesn't belong in the game.

Could not agree with you more!

[ThunderHead]

I might also add that when a play at the plate is occurring it's fair to assume the catcher is anticipating contact, it's not as if guys are getting blind sided. If a player is blocking the plate at a critical point in the game, and thus preventing the runner from having a chance at touching the object that will give his team the win, what do you expect to happen?

Do you expect the runner to simply stop? To turn around? To give up? If it's me, and the games on the line - I'm going to fight to get to the plate, even if that means going over someone. But then again - I'm ultra competitive, and if I was the catcher, I'd do all I could to prevent someone from scoring the winning run on me, and I'd block the plate too. So - there you have it, and ultra-competitive environment with ultra-competitive men. Posey knew exactly what he was doing by positioning his body where he did, this injury - as he mentioned in a separate interview, wasn't a shock to him. He knew there would be contact, he was doing his job, just like the runner was doing his.  

So here is your "protection rule" - Catchers may not completely block the plate. (sliding could also cause injury if you slide into someone completely blocking the plate.)

Go Trine!!!

[BOYA87]

I just watched the Braves game last night when Martin Prado makes a great throw from left field to catcher David Ross.  It was going to be a very close play at the plate and Ross fields the ball, steps to the side of the plate while attacking up the baseline, and tags the runner on the waste as he slides into the plate.  No collision, just an out!  I never understood why it was neccessary for a catcher to just stand in front of the plate (sometimes without the ball) and take that shot!? 

Head, I like your "protection rule".  That is really the only way I see it as being an acceptable change.  often times the catcher is wrong blocking the plate in the first place because he is obstructing the basepath without the ball!

Anyways, the Braves won!   Happy Memorial Day everybody and thanks to anyone who serves, has served, or has family members that serve.  You have no idea how much this American appreciates you and everything you do!

[sac]

The catcher blocking the plate arguments have been around long before ESPN came on the scene to obsess over things.

For instance, this created quite an uproar and I wasn't even born yet.......
http://articles.sfgate.com/1999-07-10/sports/17692500_1_time-hits-leader-ray-fosse-collision

Its part of the game, always has been, always will be.


Ultimately it is the Umpire's judgement that matters:


This is an umpire's judgement call.  There are two rules in the major league rulebook that apply.  The first is for obstruction:

2.0  OBSTRUCTION is the act of a fielder who, while not in possession of the ball and not in the act of fielding the ball, impedes the progress of any runner.
Rule 2.00 (Obstruction) Comment: If a fielder is about to receive a thrown ball and if the ball is in flight directly toward and near enough to the fielder so he must occupy his position to receive the ball he may be considered "in the act of fielding a ball." It is entirely up to the judgment of the umpire as to whether a fielder is in the act of fielding a ball. After a fielder has made an attempt to field a ball and missed, he can no longer be in the "act of fielding" the ball. For example: If an infielder dives at a ground ball and the ball passes him and he continues to lie on the ground and delays the progress of the runner, he very likely has obstructed the runner.



7.08 (b)  Any runner is out when he intentionally interferes with a thrown ball; or hinders a fielder attempting to make a play on a batted ball;
Rule 7.08(b) Comment: A runner who is adjudged to have hindered a fielder who is attempting to make a play on a batted ball is out whether it was intentional or not.
If, however, the runner has contact with a legally occupied base when he hinders the fielder, he shall not be called out unless, in the umpire's judgment, such hindrance, whether it occurs on fair or foul territory, is intentional. If the umpire declares the hindrance intentional, the following penalty shall apply: With less than two out, the umpire shall declare both the runner and batter out. With two out, the umpire shall declare the batter out.

[ThunderHead]

SAC - you're exactly right, an umpires judgment is the real key.

Generally speaking, the hardest thing to interrupt is "and not in the act of fielding the ball". I have a friend who just broke into the majors as an umpire about 3 years ago, after a long run in the minors and a few years working MLB games in fill in situations he got his number called.

He had some good insight into this, but said collisions are a rare play and most players have a lot of respect for each other and don't go looking to hurt one anther. In this day of free agency and trades it's pretty common for guys to go out to eat together after games when they are in a series, as guys develop friendships pretty quickly and like to hang out with old team mates.

Interesting stuff...

Go Trine!!!

[BOYA87]

wow great article!!  I had to find the video of that play.  The hit wasnt very malicious from Rose, it seemed pretty innocent.  But its easy to see how standing exposed with barely any pads it woudnt take much of a shot to do some damage!

but it is a party of the game and I think those rules in place pretty much cover the play the way it should!

[Diezel1]

I think the only reason the collision at home with Posey was made out to be such a big deal was because it involved Posey, one of the better up and coming catchers in the game. If it would have been a back-up or journey man catcher I dont think they would be talking about changing the rule. More pitchers get hurt pitching than catchers get hurt in a collision at home. So should the mlb change the rule and make pitchers toss the ball underhand and turn it into soft toss or softball? Play the game and quit crying because we all know, there is no crying in baseball!