FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ThunderHead]

Wabco,

I think you're missing my point, I'm speaking from the platform of majority, not minority. While I know some schools have outstanding facilities (trine comes to mind) and some outstanding athletes have come from the D3 ranks, my point was that does mean every D1 athlete is corrupt or the D1 game is in-pure.

And I wasn't making my assesment off what my D1 "buddies" have told me either, I'm relying on person experience here.

I'm also fully aware of some guys declineing scholarship money to play D3 football, my counter was simply that I'm sure there are plenty of others who would take scholarship money if offered. Just because one kids on scholarship and another isn't dosent always mean one kid is more "serious" about school.

So while I respect the chip on your shoulder, I wasn't D3 bashing. I was just giving another view point.

Go Trine

[Raider 68]

ThunderHead:

You opened this "can of worms" .  While I realize that you have been involved in DI programs and I respect that, I have known DI players and coaches myself.  As such, I would respectly disagree with you on some aspects.  I do not doubt what you say about many DI athletes being serious about their academic responsibilities.  However, it is also just as true that there are many who don't "give a rip" because all they care about is playing football and their goal is simply to get to the next level, whether it be the NFL or some other venue.  While I am not knocking that goal because anyone is entitled to that dream, on the other hand, to say that there are not DI athletes who care about nothing other than themselves and football is simply not true.  And that situaion is indeed, very sad.

I would also challenge you that being a DIII level coach is, for many coaches, indeed a year round commitment and they spend as many hours as the DI coaches do - that is a simple truth.  You might want to ask some of their wives and kids about that and I think you will find it a little different than you implied.  Also, some of your DI colleagues will tell you the same thing - I do know that those coaches I have known at the DI and DIII level personally agree with me as well.  There certainly are different priorities at the different levels as well as the fact there are similarities with regards to other aspects as well, including some (a few ) academic issues.  And finally, I'm sure that many others here will tell you of some situations where recruits and their families do turn down a scholarship offer and there are many reasons that can be involved.  To say that doesn't happen is simply not true.  Everyone's situation is different and there are certainly families that make that choice; certainly some that really shouldn't because it might be a more difficult challenge for them regarding the economic aspects, while others can afford doing that and still others find a way to get it done. Just because a scholarship is offered doesn't always make it the easy choice as there are many, many other factors that are involved in that ranging from the campus, the academic programs, the staff, yes the economics i.e. $, travel distance, the football program itself, etc., etc., etc.  Sorry, but I respectfully disagree with you and I had to get my $0.02 in here since you and the others brought this up.  Besides, I was one of those people who did have a chance to do the other level and chose to go DIII (and yes, it was a difficult challenge in that regard for my parents, but they were in total agreement - I'd do it again without hesitation and wouldn't trade my DIII experience and memories for anything.  Nor would I take that away from someone who had a good experience at the DI level.  But, again, there are differences without question and none of us can put a "cookie cutter" perspective on the process/experience.

I also walked away from a D1 scholarship to play for Mount Union. I have never looked back!

[Uncle Rico]

I'd be VERY surprised at anyone who would perfer to go into debt vs not going into debt.

If that's the case then I'm sure these same kids would turn down federal grant money and academic aid. After al, its not about the money right?

I would rather pay tuition at a quality D3 school where my son could get a great education in his field of interest than to have him accept a scholarship at a D1 school and sit in class in an auditorium with 400 other kids and never meet his teacher.  I would not be happy if he had to compromise his educational experience in order to attend a school simply because they offered him money to play football there. 

I am not saying D1 schools don't offer a great education, but I think the D3 size and experience is a great learning environment.  And I would not turn down federal grant money and academic aid if offered, unless it meant he would have to go to a school that he did not like, simply to play football.  Conversely, if a student is afforded the opportunity to go to a college that he otherwise could not afford because of an academic or athletic scholarship than more power to them.  As long as they take advantage of that scholarship and get an education first and foremost.

[Pat Coleman]

I'd be VERY surprised at anyone who would perfer to go into debt vs not going into debt.

If you're on Twitter you should follow the #whyd3 conversation that's been going on for a little over a month. There are plenty of examples of people who prefer Division III over Division I.

There are also a couple of stories written about the #whyd3 discussion, our story and one the NCAA wrote as a reaction:

http://www.d3sports.com/columns/why-division-iii
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/ncaa/resources/latest+news/2011/july/twitter+query+attracts+diii+advocates

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Great stuff - thanks Pat!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

I see on the MIAA website that the coaches preseason poll will be released on Monday morning

[ThunderHead]

I'm not saying there are not examples of people turning down scholarship money to gp D3. D3 schools have plenty to offer and I'm sure a lot of guys find small class rooms and intimate campuses appealing.

I'm also sure there are plenty of D3 kids who would take a full ride to avoid the pitfalls of debt and that don't mind bigger class rooms.

As a D1 grad the class room size didn't bother me at all, and I enjoyed most of my professors.

Big schools have their faults for sure but just because a school is small doesn't mean it is perfect either. Its just a preference I'm sure, I don't think there is a wrong answer, I respect anyone who is trying to improve their education educational background with a plus 2, plus 4, or plus more degree.

Go Trine

[D306]

I have 2 sons that have played College football, both had D1 offers.

1 played at a Major D1 university, starter, injuried never got back on field. Good size, speed, agility. Graduated and moved on proud of school and choice great education.

1 turned down a D1 offers, to play DIII football, Starter, Captain, Study Abroad, Officers Candidate and Graduate, proudly served our country in the Armed Forces.

Daughter turned down scholarships for sports to attend an aggressive program in her chosen field. It is all about choices.

Different stories for different young adults, depends on what your goals and opportunities in life are.

Very few ever make it to the next level, the level of football should not be your soul decision. 4 years later it is all a great memory and acheivement, the life long gain is did you take advantage of your opportunity.

We have commented before at length on the relative value of D1, DII and DIII educations.
The value is more about YOUR individual values and what you work to gain from the opportunity.

[BOYA87]

If this were facebook I would "like" that post many many times!

Its very true.  I now work in the admissions department and to be honest we dont want every kid that is accepted to come here!  Its all about fit.  Some will opt for bigger public schools simply because of costs.  Others will opt for bigger schools because of their reputations and social opportunities.  Some will go to competing conference schools because they want to be closer to home or feel more comfortable with their campus.  And then some will choose us!  and they choose us because it is a great fit, academically, athletically, financially, and socially.

A college decision is the 2ndest biggest choice a kid can make in their lives next to who their spouse will be.  It is one that a great amount of time, effort, and money is dedicated into making the right decision.  There are plenty of "perfect" colleges out there...just for different people.

[Pat Coleman]

I'm not saying there are not examples of people turning down scholarship money to gp D3. D3 schools have plenty to offer and I'm sure a lot of guys find small class rooms and intimate campuses appealing.

I'm also sure there are plenty of D3 kids who would take a full ride to avoid the pitfalls of debt and that don't mind bigger class rooms.

As a D1 grad the class room size didn't bother me at all, and I enjoyed most of my professors.

Big schools have their faults for sure but just because a school is small doesn't mean it is perfect either. Its just a preference I'm sure, I don't think there is a wrong answer, I respect anyone who is trying to improve their education educational background with a plus 2, plus 4, or plus more degree.

Go Trine

It's not all about classroom size. More people cite the feeling that Flying Dutch Fan mentioned earlier, that when you're on an athletic scholarship you feel like the coach basically owns you, that football (or whatever sport) is your life, that you can't be a well-rounded student.

So few people come out of college with no debt these days that I almost don't think that's a factor. Only the I-A/FBS scholarships are guaranteed to be full rides -- most of the rest are split up into bits and chunks. And it's even worse when you get beyond football and basketball.

And if you're only getting a partial scholarship, which most college football athletes who get scholarships are, then you may actually do better with a grant-in-aid package at a Division III school. If your goal is to brag to your friends that you "got a football scholarship" then yeah, take that $3,000 in athletics aid. But you may do better with grants and academic scholarships elsewhere.

And that doesn't even begin to talk about the playing time argument, that you may be in line to play much earlier at a D-III school, rather than redshirting, then riding the pine for two years.

[BoredatWork56]

I haven't stopped by in a few day, and looks like I missed some great discussion.  But I have to agree with BOYA in the fact that there are different perfect schools for everyone. 

Personally, I feel I made the right decision by choosing a DIII school where I could be involved in several aspects of the college experience.  My experience at Trine included 4 years of football, as well as being very involved in a fraternity, participating in SAAC, ASCE, Civil Engineering Honor Society, and Student Life.  That depth of involvement is something i don't think I could have achieved in a large DI school. 


... but I also didn't have anything close to a DI athletic scholarship to persuade me otherwise

[ThunderHead]

Well even though it hurt my "karma" at least we had a good discussion. The loss in K points was worth seeing new content. I'm no fan of a dead board lol.

Go Trine

[adidas28]

They have reported on the same Tuesday for the last four years. We all know you give them NO credit at all, but I'm pretty sure the atheletic department and coaches know what day they can report on.

MIAA's media day is Aug. 8.

Trine reports next Tuesday? That's pretty early. Even though they play their opener on Thursday night, they have to count their practice opportunities as if they played on Saturday in Week 1, like everyone else.

There's more to it than that, since it involves the date of the first day of classes, but an Aug. 9 report date is really early.

[Pat Coleman]

Welcome back to the board. You might want to put the chip on your shoulder down if you're still wearing it since January. Your fellow Trine fans and I have been having a nice, calm, interesting discussion here of late.

I'm pretty sure they do, too, but it isn't always the case. Heck, St. John's has had the same coach for going on half a century and still made that mistake once. It isn't an easy calculation.

[TUAngola]

Well even though it hurt my "karma" at least we had a good discussion. The loss in K points was worth seeing new content. I'm no fan of a dead board lol.

So...being a "newbie", what is the significance of "karma" on this board?  How do you "collect" it?  Guess I am too naive, I just don't understand it...

Well, practice is just about upon us in DIII.  High schools started this week, NFL went to camp, DI is next week, ahh music to my ears!  I read in the Ft Wayne paper today that Trine will scimmage St Francis-Ft Wayne on Aug 25 at Trine.  Anyone who is in the "know" at Trine, will that be open to the public or will it be a closed scimmage?  Year in and year out St Francis is a Top 5 NAIA school.  I beleive they get partial schollies, right?  What, if any, is the difference in performance?  Is NAIA better football than DIII?