FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Mr. Ypsi]

sflzman, we'll be going to the family reunion over Labor Day weekend (schedule permitting, perhaps I'll even pop in to the Hope @ IWU game, since I'll only be 40 miles away ), so all systems are 'Go' for Alma on the 10th.

Weather permitting, I'll be in an IWU 2010 Homecoming t-shirt; if too chilly, I'll still be in an IWU cap.  I'll also bring along my Scotland t-shirt (my older son got it on his trip to Scotland last year), but don't expect me to wear it to the game!   I'm planning to stay at the Just In Time campground east of Ithaca (though I haven't reserved yet).

Any other posters I'm likely to see in Alma?  (Or for that matter, in Bloomington if I do make it to that game?)

[Diezel1]

Boya,

Man I would hate to be THAT guy! But back to football...Was anyone else surprised to see Trine in the top 25 with the guys that they lost from last year? We all talk about the MIAA not getting respect but is this a sign that the people that vote actually think Trine has a program that can compete with the top schools in the country?

[bleedpurple]

ANYONE INTERESTED IN BEING PART OF THE 2011 TOP 25 FAN POLL, PLEASE SEND ME A MESSAGE WITH YOUR CURRENT EMAIL ADDRESS. Now that Kickoff is out, I'd like to get our first poll out by the middle of next week.

[ThunderHead]

Just got back from the Trine scrimmage, and like normal, I can't sleep after winding down from the drive.

So let me preference this with the following:

Saint Francis is a top notch NAIA program that has the ability to offer scholarship money to athletes.

Trine did not play a few guys that may contribute this year on offense, including WR Mario Brown (1), QB Casey Blackport (5), and a few other guys that I can't remember other then thinking that I was surprised they weren't playing.

With this all said and in an opinion that I'm sure won't be popular with my fellow Trine posters I think Trine absolutely got punched in the face tonight. Though the final period of the scrimmage was a full out full quarter of play that ended 0-0, Trine's offense failed to pick up a single first down, never drove into the red zone, and went backward on all four drives. While St. Francis was inside the red zone twice in it's first two series with it's starting and back up QB's before their own errors ended their drives.

Had someone kept score in an actual game throughout the night it would have been a route.

Props to Saint Francis, they came out fired up and looked like team that wanted to hit on defense, while Trine's defense looked timid and out of sorts all night long. While I realize that you have a lot of new personal and "roving" personal on Trine's defense this year, there was absolutely ZERO fire in them. The defensive line gave up yardage in chunks, and the secondary continually gave up deep routes down the seams, sidelines, and middle hook zones.

The two bright spots were Trine's Myron Puryear (5) and Caleb Nitz (7) who can both flat out play the corner position. They are both "shut down" type guys who can be left "on an island", and also stick someone in run support. Despite these two, who played well tonight, Saint Francis basically had their way with the defense when their 1 and 2's were in.

On offense, it was painful to watch compared to year's past. For a kid who's been in the system for a few years Ryan showed little poise running the system, and never threw the routes that showed the arm strength he may or may not have. What it lead to was an offense that was basically on life support. Rausch came in and did admirably, though he tends to be careless with the football and often inaccurate in his timing routes. Rausch can definitely extend the play with his legs, and at one point made three guys miss before throwing a 15 yard strike across the middle. Unfortunately plays like this were few and far for Trine's offense. Seasoned receivers like Cody Nash-Kniffen (18), and William Chrystal (89) were non-existant tonight and save for a few scampers around the end the ground game was simply unproductive between the ends.

While I wouldn't count Trine out of anything in the MIAA, I will say that tonight it looked like a JV team playing it's Varsity squad. St. Francis was better prepared, more intense, bigger, faster and stronger then Trine. Maybe Trine just had an off night, maybe they didn't want to "show their hand" or maybe they just aren't very good this year. Regardless, I hope they get it figured out. The fan support was great tonight, the pre-game atmosphere was electric, take away the performance and it was a great night be at Trine.

Just my take, thought I would post it for this who couldn't make it.

[Uncle Rico]

I am sure there were some valuable lessons learned, and hopefully between the scrimmage and the non-conference schedule, the team will work out any kinks before league play begins.  Winning the conference is critical if any MIAA team hopes to make the playoffs.   

[TUAngola]

I went to the scrimmage at Trine last night too.  Thunderhead you gave great insight in your post and your knowledge of the game is great.  Always love reading your thoughts from a coaching viewpoint.  I want to chime in a little from a "fan's perspective", one who never played or coached football at any level, but is just a football fan.

Atmosphere:  Trine fans I have to give you props.  For a scrimmage game to come out in droves like that, I was amazed. 

Pre game warmups:  Walking up to the stadium first thing I noticed, St Francis guys were HUGE.  And then watching them warm up, you could tell that they were very athletic.  They were very focused going thru their drills.  Like Thunderhead said, they were fired up, "woofing" it up.  Treated the practice/scrimmage more like a game than what Trine did.  Even wore their road uni's as opposed to Trine wearing practice gear.   

7 on 7:  St Francis rotated 2 QB's.  Both had strong, accurate arms, receivers/backs ran solid routes, overall pretty impressive.  Trine rotated Hargraves and Rauch (Blackport did not play).  St Francis DB's pretty much locked down our WR's.  Most of our positive gains from TE's and RB's.  I am not as critical on Hargraves as Thunderhead.  More on that later.

Kicking game:  Both squads practiced kickoffs/coverage.  Not much to gleen here.  In the timed scrimmage our punter had 2 very poor kicks, maybe just nerves?  This is one area that I was concerned about heading into this season, and it is still a concern after last night.

11 on 11 and Red Zone:  Again, St Francis is very impressive, they were much more polished.  Their RB, #1, boy he can fly when he gets in open space, very shifty.  Our DLine did not do much against the run.  St Francis pretty much got what they wanted in the run game.  LB's were ok, some nice hits.  DB's I thought were not consistent.  Like Thunderhead said I think they will be a strength on the defense, we are pretty athletic there.  But, St Francis still got open more often than we shut them down, but DLine is partly to blame as we didn't get much pressure on their QB.  St Francis first string QB can throw ropes, big arm and was very accurate.  Our offense moved the ball some, but overall was outplayed by St Francis defense.  Mario Brown did not play, hope he is ok as we desperately need someone to stretch the field.  JaVontae Hence played out wide, maybe because Brown wasn't there?  I don't think this is the best fit for him, he needs to be in the slot to get more touches.  JaVontae, other than one nice catch at the goal line, was pretty much shut out last night.  I thought Hargraves was a little better than Rauch and throws a better, tighter ball.  To be fair his WR's didn't get much seperation to get open and I commend Hargraves for not trying to force them in there.  Both QB's can scamble.  Rauch will be ok, just has to get used to the speed of opposing defenses.  He does have nice size and with some time in weight room will be a solid QB.  O-line was inconsistent, St Francis did got some pressure and we had a few holding calls. 

Timed 15:00 quarter.  Neither team scored.  St Francis moved the ball pretty well the first 2 series but fumbled both times, once into the end zone for a touchback.  Their next 2 series were stopped by interceptions.  The first one was a beautiful pick by safety Blake Combs.  The other time the St Francis QB got pressure from our D and tried to make a play and was an easy pick for our D.  Trine's possessions were...umm...ugly.  Probably a combination of St Francis D and poor execution from our O.  Our only first downs were maybe from QB scrambles or penalty.  Run game will be ok and is ahead of passing game.  Again our WR's didn't get open, but then again I am not sure our Offense will see a more athletic secondary than St Francis this year.

My take:  This won't be 2010 or 2009 or even 2008 for Trine.  It will be a work in progress.  That senior class we had last year was just...very special.  My biggest concerns in prior posts were DLine and Kicking game.  We just don't have many horses up front, so will have to use our speed to get the opposing offenses off the field.  Kicking game, we will see.  Hard to get any feedback from a scrimmage.  Newcomers?  Not much to report here.  Puryear at corner will be solid.  The Hess kid at TE made a few nice catches.  Lot of freshmen in 2 deep but didn't see many who will push the 1's.  I am not sure how this compares to the scimmage last year at St Francis; if we competed better last year or not.  St Francis is very good, there is a reason why they are always a Top 5 team in NAIA.  Just much more athletic and bigger than Trine (why are we so "vertically challenged"? ).  But it is comparing apples to oranges.  They have kids on scholly and DIII doesn't.  I think Trine will be near the top of MIAA standings, but it will be a dogfight to get there.  So, let's get to WORK Thunder!!

[formerd3db]

Thanks to all you Trine people for the analysis/summaries regarding Trine's scrimmage against St. Francis.  I'm sure that as most of you have said, despite some of the seemingly "shortcomings" in the scrimmage, Trine will be right at the top in the race for their fourth consecutive MIAA title.  As we all know, it is just a scrimmage.  With regards to St. Francis, indeed, they have been among the top NAIA teams in the last decade or two.  As Trine used to be a scholarship NAIA school, you all are aware of the type of comeptition that NAIA schools have.  While some NAIA schools have a difficult time holding their own against DIII teams, some, like St. Francis and Georgetown (KY), Cumberland, KY, and, of course, perennial power Carroll, MT (current NAIA defending champions) would crush many DIII teams.

One observation (or rather opinion, I guess) is that I was surprised to hear your accounts about Trine being in their practice uniforms for the scrimmage.  With such a huge crowd turnout and support as well as playing another school, I am surprised that Trines coaching staff did not have them in game uniforms, even though these are, of course, controlled scrimmages.  IMO, if you are going to go to the effort of scheduling such a final pre-season ending scrimmage, it should be elevated more than as simple intra-squad scrimmage. Even the DI schools treat their spring scrimmages in a more game-like manner as most of you know and certainly ThunderHead can attest to!

Hope is one of the few remaining DIII schools that still has the traditional intra-squad scrimmage for various reasons.  They wear practice uniforms (albeit orange jerseys and navy blue jerseys for the opposing squads), has a huge turnout as far as a crowd, not just parents but many from the community as well, although it is held on the practice field and not in the stadium.  Anyway, those are just some of my random thoughts on this.  We have that final big intra-squad scrimmage at Hope tomorrow afternoon.  Up until last year, the scrimmage was always held at 10:00 AM on Sat and done by noon, however, the administration had the coaching staff move it to early afternoon to allow the freshman players to go to some required orientation actitivites, so if makes for a long(er) day.  I'll be interested in watching how our linemen pan out this year - several new big frosh linemen who could possible get some considerable playing time and/or step in to bigger roles.  Of course, we'll have to see how our QB and receivers are - they need to step that up back to where Hope has traditionally been in those categories 5 years ago and more.  As always , my interest will also be in the secondary - we need to have those guys shore it up as that has been an "Achilles heel" for us the past 4-5 years, although they did somewhat better in the opening games of the season last year compared to the 2-3 years prior (i.e. in giving up the long bomb pass TD).

ThunderHead:  when do you head out for the west for your new job? Or are you on the way already?

Pat:  I, too, would like to add my compliments to you for the new website changes.  Very nice and as you have mentioned, you guys are always working on continual improvement for your program here.  Thanks.

Mr. Ypsi:  I hope you enjoy your family reunion. Normally, I would be with the team at the game at your IWU, however, unfortunately, I "drew the short stick" this time and have to work that weekend, so sadly, I'll miss it, but will be at the other games.  I hope you enjoy your time up at the Alma game and meeting sflzman, of course.  It would be great to join you guys, however, I will obviously be busy (hopefully not in that sense and no pun intended either way) with our home opener at Hope that same day.

Other tid-bits:  Olivet cancelled their JV game against Hope which had been scheduled for Labor Day due to their roster numbers being down it is my understanding.  Some of us were surprised that an actual game was scheduled for that day, although, I guess shouldn't be because that is also the first day of classes at Hope.  Hope is one of the few schools (actually, I don't know of any others) that has opening day classes on Labor Day.  When I played there "way back when", classes never started until the day after Labor Day and we only had a light practice on Labor Day afternoon, after having Sat evening, Sun and the AM of Monday off.

I suspect that Trine will not have much of a problem in their opening game against Manchester next Thurs, unless Manchester is so improved.

Anyway, great to see all the posting on here everyone.  This is perhaps the most we've ever had regardless of whether it was pre-season or in season. Thanks and keep it up!  It is great to hear about all the updates around the league.

[ThunderHead]

TUAngola - great post. I would K+ that if I could.

As to why Trine is so "vertically challenged" as you say, I have no idea. I seen kids walking around campus before the game in Trine gear that were monsters, but apparently they're either freshman (and thus JV players) or they aren't playing football and may play other sports. Either way, you can't help but notice Trine is simply a very "vertically" challenged team up front on both sides of the football.

As far as Quarterbacks, I'm critical of Hargraves because he's suppose to be the guy who knows the system, and if that's the case I couldn't tell. He throws a tighter ball then Raush on the short to intermediate passes, but they're not "super tight" by any means, and on deeper routes both guys throw balls that are more like prayers then passes. Rausch should have been picked off twice but one guy just flat out dropped it, and the second pass was so under thrown that the WR basically had to stop and the corner ran into him, thus bailing them out with a a pass interference call. Late in the 15 minute period Cody Nash-Kniffen broke open down field and Hargraves severely under-threw him. Although he was on the run, this is the type of "system" throw that has to be made if Trine's going to find success this season.

I was also surprised to see how big Blackport looked just standing on the sidelines with the other QB's. He was taller and thicker then both guys without pads on. I'm not sure why he didn't play, but I'll be excited to see what he can bring to the table. Like Boya said he has the strongest arm on the team, some of the people I was sitting next to were talking about it and had said their kids had been telling them he has been playing better and better as he's learning the offense and has a cannon for an arm. I was disappointed not see him in action. With receivers not getting the separation in the passing game, his bigger arm down field would have been a big asset.

As for the WR's, I completely agree that Hence isn't in his element wide out, and I'm not sure why Mario Brown didn't play. Again, hopefully he is ready to go for the opener. TUAngola is correct, the receivers got little separation during the night, and their depth appears to be shallow. The difference from even the 1's to the 2's was significant talent wise.

The punting game for Trine is high school level or below at best. They really struggled, he hit a couple of them straight up for about net 20 and never buried the ball deep. He also was almost blocked on every attempt, so the line could have a great deal to do with that as well. The kicking game, which is a concern - wasn't worked on. Which I don't understand. As important as special teams play is, I was very surprised not to see the field goal units run out in the situation portion of the scrimmage.

D3: I am in Grand Rapids for training, this was a late move by corporate (which I wasn't happy about) but it did allow me to get back to Angola for the scrimmage, which aside from the performance, was nice. Why Trine was in their practice gear with a full house really surprised me too. The stadium was set up just like game day and it was a beautiful night for football (it even felt as cold as nice fall night).

My conclusion is that although I knew it would be somewhat of a rebuilding year for Trine, I didn't expect them to revert back quite that far. Only time will tell, maybe this was a wake up call, and guys are starting to figure out that you can't just "show up" anymore. Last year was exactly that, and this year you're going to get everyone's best efforts.

While I agree that because St Francis is a scholarship program they have an advantage, there is no excuse for the lack of fire that Trine had. When you can finally start smacking guys in a different color uniform it generally makes guys mouths water, while it did that for St Francis, it seemed Trine was more interested in dancing then hitting. If that doesn't change, it'll be a VERY long year.

This all said, it was still great to see football again. It was a long off season. Go Trine!!!

[TUAngola]

While I agree that because St Francis is a scholarship program they have an advantage, there is no excuse for the lack of fire that Trine had. When you can finally start smacking guys in a different color uniform it generally makes guys mouths water, while it did that for St Francis, it seemed Trine was more interested in dancing then hitting. If that doesn't change, it'll be a VERY long year.

You hit the nail on the head.  This is exactly the biggest thing that stood out to me last night.  The hitting.  St Francis did indeed smack us around and we didn't smack back.  Not sure why we didn't.  It just didn't seem like our guys were into it.  Maybe wearing the practice gear instead of uniforms had the guys treat it as just "another practice".  I don't know.

There was a play early on in the 7 on 7's that pointed this out.  We threw a short completion over the middle and the St Francis guy laid a nice hit on our guy.  He started woofin' about it and the Trine players did nothing.  In fact there were some fans in the stands where I was sitting started to woof back and the St Francis guy started to trade barbs back and forth with the fans.  Trine players on the sidelines turned around to the fans like "what are you doing?"  I think the Trine fans wanted to get on the field and do some smacking because it surely wasn't coming from the players who just were so lethargic.

It could be that Trine "didn't want to show their hand" like you said.  Maybe their goal was to get out of it "injury free", which they did.  I have no inside information as to what the coaches goals were last night, so I am not going to get too worked up until after the first game with Manchester.

Go TU!

[Flying Dutch Fan]

Other tid-bits:  Olivet cancelled their JV game against Hope which had been scheduled for Labor Day due to their roster numbers being down it is my understanding.  Some of us were surprised that an actual game was scheduled for that day, although, I guess shouldn't be because that is also the first day of classes at Hope.  Hope is one of the few schools (actually, I don't know of any others) that has opening day classes on Labor Day.  When I played there "way back when", classes never started until the day after Labor Day and we only had a light practice on Labor Day afternoon, after having Sat evening, Sun and the AM of Monday off.

Not to be too nit-picky (is that a word) - but Hope actually starts classes before Labor Day, and has for quite some time.  This year the first day of classes is Tuesday, August 30.  It is true that they do have classes on Labor Day. 

[BOYA87]

I am going to post very carefully right now as I am very upset about what I wittnessed from the scrimmage...

First of all there was some good, some bad, and some ugly.  It definitely wasnt all bad and at the very least the coaching staff is walking away from this scrimmage with some great film of some looming problems AND nobody got hurt!  for a preseason scrimmage you cant really ask for more than that!

My problem lies not in the execution of the X's and O's but in the desire, drive, and "fire" *(well put TU) in the players!  This is the first time these players had a chance to hit somebody other than their own teammates...HIT SOMEBODY!!!  I know that every team has their own identity and sometimes that chatter and tough guy stuff just isnt a part of the identity, but there needs to be some sort of emotional leader on the field both for offense and defense and I am yet to see who that person is!

Its fine that you want to be critical of Hargraves ThunderHead but I want to be more critical of the people around him.  When he doesnt have time to set his feet and throw, when he scrambles out of the pocket and starts to pull up at the sign of contact (because QB's were no contact) and #42 USF linebacker knocks his helmet off!  That is your quarterback!!!  Defend him!  Stand up for him!  Protect him!  I'm not pointing a finger at the O-Line, Im saying the offense needed some to take some pride and passion into what they were doing and not let another team push you around on your own field!!

I was a wider reciever when I was a player and if I ran a streak route all the way down the field and I saw this happen back by the line of scrimmage, you better believe I would have been busting my ass back 50 yards to get in #42's face and making sure he doesnt mess with my quarterback again!

TU and ThunderHead, if you heard the crazy fan stand up and yell at the offense to quick getting pushed around and to not take any of their bull crap...that was me!  sorry we didnt get to meet up!

But I hope some of the Trine players read this board and I hope they take it to heart!  This was a wake-up call and I hope the message was received!  Winning conference 3 years in a row doesnt do anything for Trine this year and it wont win Trine any games!  We are not entitled to anything and not a single team is going to get off the bus and roll over for us because of what we did in the past!  In fact it is the exact opposite.  we are going to get every teams BEST game because they want to knock off the top dog.  If this team doesnt find an identity it might just happen!

[ThunderHead]

TUAngola,

While I wouldn't get "worked up" over the scrimmage performance just yet, there is definitely some cause for concern. If a coaches goal is to play a lame-duck scrimmage so he doesn't show his hand, then you're better off not having a scrimmage with a different team. And I think the player you're speaking of for Saint Francis that laid the wood in the 7 v 7 was number 21. Indeed I loved his play, and Trine wanted NOTHING to do with him after that. (Like you said, they didn't hit back.)

As you mentioned, the Trine fans were fired up about that hit, much more so then the players, but one lady next to me said "can you believe 21 did that?" to which I replied "It's football, THAT's football, the big question is why aren't we doing it back."

I loved how Saint Francis played defense, they're going to do well. They looked like a football team, and at least night, we didn't, and that sucks.

by the way TUAngola, check your PM box, I sent you a message.

Also BOYA - I did you see stand up at tell the team to do something about it. About time someone did. The coaches didn't, the players didn't, and it's sad it took a former player to remind them of what the heck they are suppose to be. I don't disagree with you about the offensive line not helping Hargraves or Rausch, and yet their arms, or lack of them, are what allowed St. Francis to bring that heat and "front coverage" all night long. That equaled deer-in-the-headlights look for both guys. As for Ryan, well I woulda hit him to if I was on defense, he lowered his shoulder, he didn't slide. In my book, QB or not, you're open game when you're "attacking" a LB core and you lower your shoulder. (though he may have been trying to pull up, he should have slid, that's QB 101) From a defensive standpoint you don't let a QB run around early-on lowering his shoulder on you, it's just not gonna happen. That said, it was obvious no one on Trine's O-line had much of a problem with it, because they all kinda just walked back to the huddle.

Fire, Drive, Aggression - three things that weren't there last night for Trine. That's on the upper classman and the coaches. They looked unprepared and in over their heads. They did not in anyway look a program with any kind of swagger. They basically got punked out in front of a large home crowd. While it maybe critical - it's the truth.

Go Trine

[emma17]

This UWW fan is hoping the scrimmage is not indicative of who Trine will be this year.  I became a big fan of theirs (fans too) last year and am hoping it was the start of many years of excellent football. 

I'm not sure of what the entire day was for Trine yesterday, maybe that played a part.  When UWW scrimmaged last weekend, they did a couple hours of half pads with the other team in the morning (which is live hitting, no tackling) and then the full scrimmage in the afternoon. 

Maybe you had some tired legs and tired minds.   

[Raider 68]

I am going to post very carefully right now as I am very upset about what I wittnessed from the scrimmage...

First of all there was some good, some bad, and some ugly.  It definitely wasnt all bad and at the very least the coaching staff is walking away from this scrimmage with some great film of some looming problems AND nobody got hurt!  for a preseason scrimmage you cant really ask for more than that!

My problem lies not in the execution of the X's and O's but in the desire, drive, and "fire" *(well put TU) in the players!  This is the first time these players had a chance to hit somebody other than their own teammates...HIT SOMEBODY!!!  I know that every team has their own identity and sometimes that chatter and tough guy stuff just isnt a part of the identity, but there needs to be some sort of emotional leader on the field both for offense and defense and I am yet to see who that person is!

Its fine that you want to be critical of Hargraves ThunderHead but I want to be more critical of the people around him.  When he doesnt have time to set his feet and throw, when he scrambles out of the pocket and starts to pull up at the sign of contact (because QB's were no contact) and #42 USF linebacker knocks his helmet off!  That is your quarterback!!!  Defend him!  Stand up for him!  Protect him!  I'm not pointing a finger at the O-Line, Im saying the offense needed some to take some pride and passion into what they were doing and not let another team push you around on your own field!!

I was a wider reciever when I was a player and if I ran a streak route all the way down the field and I saw this happen back by the line of scrimmage, you better believe I would have been busting my ass back 50 yards to get in #42's face and making sure he doesnt mess with my quarterback again!

TU and ThunderHead, if you heard the crazy fan stand up and yell at the offense to quick getting pushed around and to not take any of their bull crap...that was me!  sorry we didnt get to meet up!

But I hope some of the Trine players read this board and I hope they take it to heart!  This was a wake-up call and I hope the message was received!  Winning conference 3 years in a row doesnt do anything for Trine this year and it wont win Trine any games!  We are not entitled to anything and not a single team is going to get off the bus and roll over for us because of what we did in the past!  In fact it is the exact opposite.  we are going to get every teams BEST game because they want to knock off the top dog.  If this team doesnt find an identity it might just happen!

When you lose a top senior class and expectations are very high for the next year, keeping the players focused on their immediate goal will be a big challenge for Trine, IMHO. They just have prepare for each game and not think about last year, easier said then done however!

[BOYA87]

Like I said, the biggest positive from this scrimmage is that it gave the coaching staff some great film to look at and to see things that need improved.  I have full confidence in the staff and the players to fix the things they need to fix before week 1.  But like you said, its tough to lose so many seniors and I will be anxious to see who steps up in those leadership roles!