FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ThunderHead]

Exactly - It wasn't Ryan's day and it wasn't the Thunder's either - but if you believe in your guy, don't you give him the chance for that signature come back win at least once before going to the bench?

No. I don't. Not based on his body of work. After the 3rd pick, I would have pulled the plug, I'd have seen enough. If it's not his day, it's not his day, maybe it's someone else's.

But then again, I don't use my timeouts at the end of the game to allow my offense one more chance to - well, turn the ball over, when there is no chance I can win the ball game as it's more then two possession game. I don't allow my quarterback to snap the ball under the 22 second mark on the play clock in the third and fourth quarter when I'm trailing by more then two scores and I need all the clock I can get with Adrian snapping the ball at the 5 second mark of the play clock, and I don't stay in off-man coverage to the wide side with a 1 high when Adrian has been beating me all day long to the extended boundary.

So I guess I would have done things quite a bit different then Trine did Saturday, but that's not to say my moves would have worked either. Each coach does what he's comfortable with and hopefully Coach Land will grow a bit as a coach in the loss, as well as the team. I can attest that I have learned from plenty of my own mistakes as coach by reviewing things after a loss. Coming off a bye week, I had hoped Trine would have been better prepared then they were. Like I said, hopefully it's a learning experience for everyone.

[ForeverFootball]

Or maybe, just maybe, new thought here.  Adrian could really be THAT good. And maybe I am biased here, but those picks were not gimmies.  Those "D" guys leaped to get those.  I guess the rest of the season ......we will see.  The announcers on the radio (we had headsets on) kept saying that it was obvious that Adrian traveled for blood and wanted the win more than Trine did. But I have to agree with you, for the reason of nothing else but to give another QB some play time.  Why not try someone else in the 4th?  I do not know a lot of Trine history but did the coaching staff only "turn the program around" when Watt was there? Maybe it was the player and not so much the coaching staff.  < Just throwing some thoughts out there from the other side >

[ThunderHead]

FF,

I don't mean to take anything away from Adrian, they baited Ryan with under coverage, did their research on our secondary, which has given up yards all year when teams attacked them vertically, and they had the talent to pull it off.

Adrian actually left a bunch of points on the field, but they prevented Trine from capitalizing. While I don't think they were incredibly tough picks to make, they made them and set up Ryan to throw them. It's exactly what you want to do against Trine.

It was a good game plan and it was well executed. Congrats, you guys are a good team and will make the MIAA better as a whole this year. My original point was just that I thought someone else, regardless of who, should get a chance. How bad does it have to get before the logical choice gets made?

[ForeverFootball]

Very true Thunderhead.  We were surprised also, they didn't try someone else.

[sflzman]

sflzman:

Nothing against Coach Folske as he is a good man.  However, a pitch counter doesn't quite do it for me and one really needs more than one person doing the attendance count at games (a more organized system of doing it as some colleges do).  I've been to many Alma games for many years in the past at Bahlke Stadium and while I do not put myself out as an expert on attendance estimating (because, admittedly, I have been somewhat off at times), again, I agree with you and I know there were way more than the 1280 people listed as the "official" attendance.  As I mentioned, Balhke sits 4,500 and the home stands were at least 1/2 full, actually, IMO, about 3/4 full by halftime and the early 3rd quarter before some Alma students started "drifting" away as Hope's lead had balooned to 31-0 at that point in the 3rd quarter.

Trust me, we've been saying that for a long time. I guess little battles 

And about the seeting, the stands seat 5,000, and the number d3football.com gets is the compacity we include with standing room, and the places where we could have portable bleachers, if needed, for like an NCAA playoff game, and whatnot.....

[Uncle Rico]

ForeverFootball...you make a very good point.  I hope it is that Adrian is that good.  We can only base our comments on what we are more familiar with, what we expect, and what we have seen.  Adrian certainly did come to play.

Perhaps the coaches, knowing more than we do about the team, believed it was not the qb's fault for everything that went wrong.  Perfect...no.  None of us are.  Totally to blame...not close.

Perhaps the coaches knew that a backup qb could not have done any better behind the protection they were getting, and to throw someone else in knowing full well they couldn't do any better would only undermine the team and that position.   

Perhaps not calling the time outs and running out the clock and packing up would send the wrong message that "we quit," "let's get this over with."  I don't care what the score is, I want my players fighting to the end.

Possibly the qb backups have not earned the position yet, through attitude, practice, perparation, or teamwork?

(It is not fair for me to cast aspirations towards the backups because I do not know them personally nor have seen their workouts and practice habits and skills.  Nor have I heard bad things about them)

We can second guess decisions that coaches make, it can be fun to do, but it is also fair to say that none of us have the benefit of all the information that the coaches have, and to second guess a coaching staff that has turned the program around is putting yourself up for second guessing as well. 

It is fair to say that Adidas and I have both been around the Trine program longer than most on this board, and perhaps that is the reason we are not as quick to criticize. 

Also, it is great to be passionate about the game.  But keep it in perspective.  Some stuff is becoming derogatory and I will try not to fall in to that.  In the big scheme of things, this is a great game.  Many life lessons are learned through playing and participating.  But it is only a game, and I am more thankful for the roof over my head, the food on my table and a family that loves me most of the time.     I will get more worked up over those things than I will over who is throwing a ball to who, or who tackled who.

[ThunderHead]

UR,

Good post. Though I didn't read anything from anyone that I thought was derogatory, or at least I hope you didn't take what I was saying as "derogatory" because that wasn't my intent.

I do see the merits to your questions, and yet - I think it's a further reach to speculate on any of those things then it was to speculate on what was fairly obvious on the field Saturday. (seen versus unseen)  And that being, Hargraves struggled beyond the normal point of most college coaches tolerance.

As for a house, food and ect..., this is a football message board. I don't think any of us have football out of perspective, and while there are fans that take things to the "Nth degree", I don't think that's the case in MIAA. (the MIAC maybe another story, especially if your a Tommie or a Johnnie  )

While none of us have the benefit of being at every Trine practice, I think if you used that gauge to stop the evaluation process I don't think shows like College Football Live, College Game Day, NFL Live, ect would have any merit. The reality is, this (us) is a part of football.

You're correct about you and Adidias being around the program much longer then any of us, but I think sometimes maybe that leads to a skewed perspective of what's going on with view point similar to ours (not in the program). That's not to say your view point is incorrect, it's just to say that I'm not making the comments I make to "rip" anyone, as mentioned before, I just think another kid should get a shot after the way Ryan was performing. I believe that's a logical statement to make or thought to have, and I don't think I personally criticized anyone at a personal level, at least I hope not. Performance wise, sure - but again, it's college football, I think that happens at every level.

It's just I definitely would have handled things different as it related to game situations had I coached, I think that's okay to state. Like I said, everyone coaches differently, and the team came out and laid an egg, regardless of who is coaching - a teams play ultimately falls back on the staff. It's why coaches get fired every year. To think I team can lose 26-7 and not have made any mistakes isn't logical. Every coach I've worked with had learned from wins and loses, as a coach you don't just "arrive" and know everything. As a matter of fact, one coach I worked with always said "as soon as you think know everything, quit, because your simply done trying to learn and you'll put your team in a bad spot soon enough."

I know I wasn't the only one who was wondering why Ryan was still out there, while some obviously voiced that opinion at the game (at least some of the students near me...or they looked like students with their homecoming shirts), I didn't think it worth voicing but I figured it was okay to bring it up here. 

[sac]

RATING
Trine #54
Adrian #55
Albion #90
Kzoo #136
Alma #143
Hope #145
Olivet #213

Last week's massey ratings quoted above.  This week's below

Adrian #49
Albion #81
Trine #92
Hope #102
Kalamazoo #130
Alma #157
Olivet #209

Big mover of the week was Hope who jumped 43 spots with their win over Alma.  All four of Hope's non-conference opponents won this past weekend as well, which I'm sure helped.

[Raider 68]

Hope has a great chance to make it 3 in a row on Saturday night!

[formerd3db]

Raider68:

Certainly there is a very good chance at that.  However, Kazoo is not going to be a "push-over" by any means.  They are much better than they have been the past couple of years and if Hope does not stay focused and/or take them lightly, it could be a derailing of the momentum we've established over the last couple of weeks.  Anyway, a night game will be a neat atmosphere.  I remember the one we had when I played in college a long time ago - it was a great experience and actually just a different feeling than in usual high school Friday night games.

BTW, your Mount had a tough test this past Saturday, but weathered the storm.  That should be a solid boost for them i.e. get that one "bad" game out of their system.

[formerd3db]

sac:

As always, great job on the stats and thanks.  One aspect, however, that kind of baffles me is that how Albion could be ranked higher than some of the other teams when they didn't have any wins until this last Saturday.  I'm sure that some are going to say SOS was the factor, however, IMO, the "W" is more meaningful regardless of who you play and the other teams opponents were not total "doormats".  Anyway, we'll see what happens after this upcoming weekend.

[Raider 68]

Raider68:

Certainly there is a very good chance at that.  However, Kazoo is not going to be a "push-over" by any means.  They are much better than they have been the past couple of years and if Hope does not stay focused and/or take them lightly, it could be a derailing of the momentum we've established over the last couple of weeks.  Anyway, a night game will be a neat atmosphere.  I remember the one we had when I played in college a long time ago - ti was a great experience and actually just a different feeling than in usual high school Friday night games.

BTW, your Mount had a tough test this past Saturday, but weathered the storm.  That should be a solid boost for them i.e. get that one "bad" game out of their system.

formerd3db,

You are right home night games are neat, hopefully they can make it a great night!

The Raider/ONU was a tough game, ONU played great defense, field conditions impacted Mount's
team speed, but a close, tough game is good for a team (especially one that usually wins by 4-5 TD's)

[formerd3db]

sflzman:

Nothing against Coach Folske as he is a good man.  However, a pitch counter doesn't quite do it for me and one really needs more than one person doing the attendance count at games (a more organized system of doing it as some colleges do).  I've been to many Alma games for many years in the past at Bahlke Stadium and while I do not put myself out as an expert on attendance estimating (because, admittedly, I have been somewhat off at times), again, I agree with you and I know there were way more than the 1280 people listed as the "official" attendance.  As I mentioned, Balhke sits 4,500 and the home stands were at least 1/2 full, actually, IMO, about 3/4 full by halftime and the early 3rd quarter before some Alma students started "drifting" away as Hope's lead had balooned to 31-0 at that point in the 3rd quarter.

Trust me, we've been saying that for a long time. I guess little battles 

And about the seeting, the stands seat 5,000, and the number d3football.com gets is the compacity we include with standing room, and the places where we could have portable bleachers, if needed, for like an NCAA playoff game, and whatnot.....

sflzman:

Glad you are supporting "the same battle"!   Also, Bahlke's main seating has always been listed at the 4,000-4,500 mark since it's "renovation" i.e. actual new construction back in 1986, however, for sure as you mention, the 5,000 reflects the "higher" capacity for the bigger games.  Before you "came on board", back in the mid-1990's for the title game of Alma vs. Albion (1994 I believe), they have over 8,000 jammed in there (actually, IMO, it was well over 9,000 as I was there).  Back in the late 1960's, with Denny Stolz's (former Alma QB and later Michigan State University Head Coach) Alma title teams, they regularly packed in over 8,000 for home games in the old Bahlke Stadium.  Oops, my apologies to our fellow posters here for my tangent off regarding history of attendance.

[RFMichigan]

But I have to agree with you, for the reason of nothing else but to give another QB some play time.  Why not try someone else in the 4th?

In fact, the Adrian coach, down by one with about 5 minutes left in the game against Concordia, brings in a QB cold off the bench who promptly leads them to the winning field goal.

[ForeverFootball]

But I have to agree with you, for the reason of nothing else but to give another QB some play time.  Why not try someone else in the 4th?

In fact, the Adrian coach, down by one with about 5 minutes left in the game against Concordia, brings in a QB cold off the bench who promptly leads them to the winning field goal.

I knew this but didn't want to start the bantering of "our Coach was smart enough to switch quarterbacks in a down game".  Thank you for pointing that out.  And then the starting qback went to Trine knowing that if he did NOT perform, he would be pulled.  Maybe Hargraves isn't afraid of that.