FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Uncle Rico]

Gotta leave for now and continue watching / listening to the wonderful Tigers game.....

[ThunderHead]

yeah, interestingly, I suppose even if you eject Gholston, you have to flag the Michigan kid for holding him down by the face mask, that's obviously a personal foul. I'm not saying the correct response is a punch, but it was a "response" and that's worth noting.

Also, from the few people I hardly care to admit I know who reside within that blue wall called AA, they did say Gholston caught up to Hoke and was very apologetic, apparently that impressed the Michigan staff. (remember they recruited him too, so these guys wouldn't be all together unfamiliar.)

And yes UR - I did make that to easy for you didn't I. Maybe from now I should call you the bus driver... Speaking of beat down, how about those Tigers.

[Mr. Ypsi]

I do want to point out one thing, as I've seen it posted by Michigan fans on the video clips, the comment is: "Coach Dantonio recruits thugs" - while not an all together surprising take by Michigan fans, I think I should point out that Michigan recruited him hard and also offered him a scholarship. He choose MSU over Michigan, Alabama, Florida, Wisconsin, and USC to name a few.

Based on the Narduzzi quote, perhaps they create thugs rather than recruiting them.

If Gholston had chosen Michigan, perhaps he'd be a candidate for the college football equivalent of the Lady Byng trophy!   Today he was a thug who should have been ejected.  Twice.  

[ThunderHead]

I figured I'd get Michigan's side from the presser.

Brady Hoke

Did you prepare your players for the dirty play?

"No. I don't know how (MSU) played dirty. They had some personal fouls and late hits on the quarterback. You can get those all the time."

Denard Robinson

Did you feel like they were playing dirty?

"No. We were playing football. It's a dirty game."

Mike Martin

Do you think they played dirty today?

"I mean, we knew what type of game this was going to be. It was going to be a tough, physical game, and coach talked about keeping our poise and composure as a football team. So I think we did a good job on that side of it, and we just have to do a better job with taking coaching and executing what the coaches tell us to do."

Were you expecting it to be like this? "I mean, who doesn't know what this type of game is. It's a tough, physical game, period. It's an in-state rival, and it's big for both teams. That's what it's all about."

You think they won with class?

"I don't worry about that. They have a right to celebrate. They won. They're excited. I tip my hat to them."

Sounds like some guys who understand it's a rough game. They know things are cranked up in rivalry games. I wasn't thrilled with the 2 Gholston actions (more so the first than the second). The taunting was split second. And, I had no problem whatsoever with the late hit on Denard (obvious penalty, and a bummer that he had to leave the game).

I, for the first time in years, agree with Albom, "The refs called it roughing. Michigan fans called it cheap. Spartans fans called it 'football.'"

I've been pleasantly surprise by the perspective beyond the Walverine faithful. (except my friends here )

"That's what we try to do," Narduzzi said after Michigan State's 28-14 win against Michigan. "Sixty minutes of unnecessary roughness. I'm just happy it didn't get called on every snap."

[Mr. Ypsi]

TH, sounds more to me like graciousness and coach-speak, as opposed to the 'Arrogant Asses' that Perles claimed resided in AA.

Sure it is a tough, physical game.  Twisting a helmet 120 degrees while lying on a player (after you have late-hit him), throwing a punch, or wrapping up a qb 2 full seconds after he releases the ball then throwing him to the ground on his throwing shoulder is NOT 'tough, physical' football; it is thuggery.

I used to root for MSU against anyone except Michigan.  No more.  They are (the old) Miami without the warmth or palm trees.

[ThunderHead]

Mr. Ypsi,

They are not close to the old Miami.   And Perles was right to an extent about AA at the time, Bo and later Lloyd were incredibly arrogant, and I can speak to that first hand from a few other staffs perspectives. (I say this because I know you worked form Michigan, thus had a perspective from inside the program)

But if we want to talk thuggery, your golden boys from AA are far from exempt. Not only did they have no interest in shaking hands after the game....AGAIN, but just take a walk down memory lane, or think back to the Michigan player who hit the Illinois player in the junk for no reason a few years back :

http://www.youtube.com/v/zPYueAc5XAE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VEFvus0rGs8

Face it, the next time a winning team complains about "dirty" play will be the first. MSU isn't a walk over Minnesota team, or Northwestern, or Eastern, or SDSU. They are the defending B10 champs. They are physical. They scratch. They claw. They battle.

You don't like it. Play harder.
You want to win. Play harder.
You want to walk the streets. Play harder.

In my opinion, if you aren't walking a tight rope on the verge of a penalty on every defensive play, you aren't trying hard enough. How many of these Michigan fans rooted for the Bad Boys?

But...the outcome of the game was decided in spite of the Spartans aggressive play on defense. MSU gave Michigan 124 yards off of penalties and the Wolvies couldn't capitalize. Missed opportunities is on them.

And if you think MSU is mean, wait 'til next year. If you come this soft next year, Alabama will run you out of the building. MSU learned that the hard way  with a far better team then Michigan will produce on paper next year. I personally would much rather have a team with MSU's identity then Michigan's. The general feeling I get from the Michigan fan base is this: uh oh...

[Mr. Ypsi]

TH, you do not even begin to comprehend what I am saying about THIS game. 

THIS game, MSU were thugs.  Narduzzi said he wanted it that way.  To me, Narduzzi is scum.

You call it football; I call it thuggery.  I guess we agree to disagree.

You seem strangely 'arrogant' about the near future.  I will take Hoke and Mattison over Dantonio and Narduzzi any day (and twice on Saturdays)!

Enough.  Enjoy your win.  It may be a while before the next one.  I'm done.

[DBQ1965]

Reading the UM -MSU game talk on here ... thuggery, poor officiating, etc. ... its interesting how perspective is affected when one's team loses.  There is more here about the game in East Lansing than any of yesterday's MIAA games.

[formerd3db]

DBQ1965:
Sorry, however, I have to disagree with you on this one.  No one here is complaining about the officiating because their team lost.  All of the Michigan supporters here (including myself) readily acknowledge that Michigan simply got outplayed yesterday and lost the game.  Michigan State deserved to win without question.  Yet, that does not excuse poor officiating for either side, especially when they let things get out of hand (or almost out of hand).  The same exact aspect applies to the MIAA games.  Yesterday's officiating crew at the Albion/Hope game was part of the same crew that officiated the Hope/Alma game and they simply are not very good.  Consistency was lacking, they missed calls repeatedly (especially holding, although I will say they did correctly call it more on Albion than they did against Hope) and they just are not a crew that one would be confident on.  Moreover, I and others have been complaining about the quality of officiating in the MIAA for about 5 years now.  It has been simply sub-par, and that is putting it mildly.  They let so many aspects get out of hand, including egregious behavior by some players and coaches (particularly Albion 3 and 4 years ago, I'm sorry to say) and that was pathetic.  Last year, I had a slightly renewed hope in them as the officiating was much better last year and I thought to myself..."okay, so this is now getting turned around and returning to the quality of officiating that is expected, other than the 4  years or so prior to that.  However, I from what I've witnessed so far this year, it is disappointing and any progress in that regard has been lost, IMO.  I am not implying here whatsoever that these officials are purposely targeting one team or another; I'm simply saying they are, unfortunately, not doing a very good job.  And that is disappointing.  As for the Big Ten officiating crews, I can't comment in general on them; only the games I've seen of TV or seen replays of specific plays on. 

TH: 
In no way, was Michigan over-hyped or over-rated for this game.  Not sure where you get that from.  All the media that I heard (or read) including the Michigan broadcasting crew readily acknowledged that Michigan certainly was not a team that was/is going to pound anyone.  They were, without, question optimistic about Michigan's chances against Michigan State and they also talked extensively about Michigan being much improved (the same as has been discussed by many here), however, also acknowledged that Michgian obviously has a long way yet to go this season and next as far as the overall program is concerned.  By the same token, Michigan State is not that good either.  Of course they played well yesterday, however, their not going to steamroll the better teams; they're average.

As far as arrogance discussion, you might as well apply that to almost all the top DI coaches if you are going to use that arguement.  Urban Meyer, Saban, Stoops, Kelly, Rich Rod (although I wouldn't really include RR in the top list of DI coaches  ), former TT coach Leach (who I hope is never hired by some DI team again, although he is on the short list for some eastern DI teams, including Florida Atlantic to replace Schnellenberger who is retiring at the end of this season - BTW, FAU has a beautiful new 30,000 seat bowl shaped stadium including a press box that looks like Michigan State's and which had its inagural game and dedication played yesterday).  Sorry, however, the arrogance arguement only goes so far and as I've previously mentioned my own opinion, if anyone is going to cite that as one against Michigan, then you have to readily cite and accept the jealousy one and lack of accountability (okay I'll say it - lack of class) that has been exhibited over the years at Michigan State.  Anyway, I'll stop with further comment on this/these topic of discussion because it is becoming unproductive here and, in essence, all of us here who have been discussing this are turning it into a "rant/rave" and "complaint" fest against the other's team (i.e. it shows our bias for either Michigan or Michigan State).    

[ThunderHead]

Yeah, I'm good with agreeing to disagree.

October 20, 2012 will be win number 5 for Michigan State. It's not arrogance, it's simply my evaluation of the programs at this point. MSU is a better program, with better athletes and better coaching. But, everyone has a right to an opinion, and I certainly respect Mr. Ypsi enough to appreciate his view, even if I think he's wrong.

I think Wisconsin is probably the best team the in the Big Ten, however I think MSU is in the top half of that group.

As for Michigan State not being that good, well they have the number one overall defense in the nation, and to me, that's pretty impressive. You can only play your schedule, and to this point, I think they're playing it well from a defensive standpoint. They're far from average.

As for the arrogance argument, I think if you had read the front half of the statement I was applying it to "the Perles statement from Mr. Ypsi" I was merely backing up what George Perles said and agree with him. I don't really have a problem with arrogance from coaches at the D1 level, I've worked with enough of them and I have probably been thought of that way by other myself     

As for the officiating in the MIAA, yeah - I hear it's suspect across the board. Not sure what, if anything will be done. I don't know how the MIAA works, I'm sure the guys in stripes take it seriously, though I'm not sure they have the resources or pay scale to attract or develop elite crews. Then again, even at the D1 level, there are plenty of guys who get it wrong, but rarely intentionally.

[ForeverFootball]

Yeah, I'm good with agreeing to disagree.

October 20, 2012 will be win number 5 for Michigan State. It's not arrogance, it's simply my evaluation of the programs at this point. MSU is a better program, with better athletes and better coaching. But, everyone has a right to an opinion, and I certainly respect Mr. Ypsi enough to appreciate his view, even if I think he's wrong.

I think Wisconsin is probably the best team the in the Big Ten, however I think MSU is in the top half of that group.

As for Michigan State not being that good, well they have the number one overall defense in the nation, and to me, that's pretty impressive. You can only play your schedule, and to this point, I think they're playing it well from a defensive standpoint. They're far from average.

As for the arrogance argument, I think if you had read the front half of the statement I was applying it to "the Perles statement from Mr. Ypsi" I was merely backing up what George Perles said and agree with him. I don't really have a problem with arrogance from coaches at the D1 level, I've worked with enough of them and have probably been thought of that way by other myself     

As for the officiating in the MIAA, yeah - I hear it's suspect across the board. Not sure what, if anything will be done. I don't know how the MIAA works, I'm sure the guys in stripes take it seriously, though I'm not sure they have the resources or pay scale to attract or develop elite crews. Then again, even at the D1 level, there are plenty of guys who get it wrong, but rarely intentionally.

Yes, for now, MSU is the better team, but Michigan will be back and in regards to the "better program".  Overall record is 67-30-5 in favor of U of M.  MSU has some catching up to do.  ~

[realist]

I am a fan of neither MSU or MI, but I did watch the game.  It appeared to me that MSU knew what they needed to do to win the game, and two things were apparent.  One was they needed to stop Robinson, and the second was they needed to be aggressive.  Did they at times cross the line yes, but they also were penalized for infractions.  I thought both teams deserved some flags that weren't thrown. 
I know very little about MI's new coach, but have to agree with the TV guys that his QB subbing pattern did nothing to aid his own cause.  It appeared to affect M much more than it did MSU's defense.

[ThunderHead]

Realist, good points. I took some heat, but I said that MSU took Michigan to the wood shed. I didn't mean that in relation to the score, (I predicted only a 10 point win...) but rather to the physical nature MSU beat Michigan up with.

This was backed up by Kovack - a Michigan player, who said "the beat us up" in the presser after the game, but here is another telling comment by Brady Hoke after the game when asked about the state of his locker room. I can assure you this isn't "coach speak", this is just Hoke being real.

"There's not a healthy guy in that room. Everybody's beat up," Hoke said.

So again, I just feel like it affirms my original point regarding the wood shed, which like I said, I took some heat for saying. It's not a green and bronze glasses commen  but rather a pretty accurate observation. 

Also Mr. Ypsi, did you look at the film included in my previous post? Realistically if you're going to call Michigan State "thugs" for a few guys actions (mainly one) in one single game, then you should also call Michigan thugs for the plays above. 

Also, the recruits at the game that I spoke with, (who are being recruited by several big schools, including Michigan) well lets just say - they were very much loving Green. It was definitely a good win for MSU in more ways then just the game score.

One other thing, most all of those Michigan fans will don their Suh jersey this afternoon and celebrate his penchant for late hits and 15 yard unnecessary roughness penalties because, well, this is football.... just saying, it's quite the tilted view.

[Uncle Rico]

Realist, good points. I took some heat, but I said that MSU took Michigan to the wood shed. I didn't mean that in relation to the score, (I predicted only a 10 point win...) but rather to the physical nature MSU beat Michigan up with.

This was backed up by Kovack - a Michigan player, who said "the beat us up" in the presser after the game, but here is another telling comment by Brady Hoke after the game when asked about the state of his locker room. I can assure you this isn't "coach speak", this is just Hoke being real.

"There's not a healthy guy in that room. Everybody's beat up," Hoke said.

So again, I just feel like it affirms my original point regarding the wood shed, which like I said, I took some heat for saying. It's not a green and bronze glasses commen  but rather a pretty accurate observation. 

Also Mr. Ypsi, did you look at the film included in my previous post? Realistically if you're going to call Michigan State "thugs" for a few guys actions (mainly one) in one single game, then you should also call Michigan thugs for the plays above. 

Also, the recruits at the game that I spoke with, (who are being recruited by several big schools, including Michigan) well lets just say - they were very much loving Green. It was definitely a good win for MSU in more ways then just the game score.

One other thing, most all of those Michigan fans will don their Suh jersey this afternoon and celebrate his penchant for late hits and 15 yard unnecessary roughness penalties because, well, this is football.... just saying, it's quite the tilted view.

  Good grief.  You can use the woodshed analogy all you want if it makes you feel better.  Everyone agrees state played better, won the game, and deserved the win.  You don't hear the Michigan players, coaches, or fans arguing that.  Trying to tack a "woodshed beating" is a fun way for spartan fans to throw a jab in, and that is ok I guess.  A score of 28-14 is not in the same league as at 37-6 score, or a 49-7 score.   Down by 7 with less than 10 minutes left?   I would not give my team credit for a woodshed beating and might even be a little upset with my team that it was not more points due to all the stupid penalties but it was a win over Michigan and that is all that matters in East Lansing.

[formerd3db]

TH:

I'll echo Uncle Rico's last post (BTW, good post UR ) Good grief, TH...a) your citation about Michigan State University having the number one defense in the nation is a legit point. However, if you are going to use that one...yeah, Hope College was near the best i.e. in the top 10 in the nation for small college defense against the run last year but, in reality and despite that statistic, our defensive players were literally "run over", actually smashed is a more appropriate term and, over all, we simply were not a very good team - statistics can be and are misleading, you know that; anyway, until State starts pounding their remaining opponents, IMO, they will remain a decent, average to good team.  They certainly are not, as yet, a top 15 team based on what we've seen; b) sorry you don't have a problem with arrogance by DI coaches - that's really not how it should be at ANY level, there certainly is a vast difference between arrogance and being loud, exhuberent and confident, you know that as well; and c) good grief, for any recruit, of course, they are going to be thinking "yes" towards the team that is hosting them when they won the game - that will hold for some of them until the next official recruiting visit at the next team.

We'll revisit the "who's better" debate/discussion again after we see how Michigan State and Wisconsin do in their next few games.   Oh, and BTW, Michigan State has more "thugs" on their team than Michigan does! They always have