FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Mr. Ypsi]

As tomorrow is supposed to be pretty decent weatherwise (at least considering that it is November in Michigan! ), I'm very tempted to go add to the (meager) best-team-in-years EMU crowd, but since EMU and UM are BOTH on national TV at the same time (don't recall that EVER happening before ), I'll probably stay home and channel surf.

Go Hurons (I refuse to admit they now call themselves Eagles)!
Go Wolverines!
Go whoever is playing MSU!  (UM can take care of Nebraska themselves, but we need help against the Sparties. )

[BoBo]

Perhaps Michigan did it better in that they kept their helmets and just used "throwback" jerseys, but...of course, Michigan's helmet is unique.  Anyway, what are your opinions?

In a way, formerd3db, the Michigan helmet is one of the less unique helmets in existence today - if you define unique as being "the only one." The helmet design (albeit different color combinations) is used by countless high schools, at least 4 DIII schools, and of course the Blue Hens of Delaware (copied from Michigan).  I believe Fritz Crisler first used it when he was coaching at Princeton, before going to Michigan (again albeit black and orange) and the Tigers still use it today. I wonder how it ever got to be known as the Michigan helmet? I think it should be considered The Princeton helmet!!

Now, if you define unique as "being without equal, distinctively characteristic, or unusual," than that's a different argument!! 

[sac]

Thanks Raider68.  I expect to hear of a huge crowd at your Mount Union tomorrow.  Are you going to the game?

Also, here is a question for you and our colleagues.  This obviously does not pertain to DIII, nonetheless, it is a relevent question IMO.  What do you guys think about all these different helmets and uniforms that some of the various DI teams are using this year?  It seems this is becoming more frequent i.e. having 2 or 3 (or more) different helmets and uniforms.  Of course, this is all coming as a result of Oregon.  Yet, while in one sense it is neat to see these "throwback" uniforms and/or new style design helmets/uniforms in games as well as the different uniform combos, on the other hand, I can't quite understand the "why"?  All these universities are crying about the huge cost of their athletic programs, yet they are spending tons of $ for these uniforms, particularly the helmets.  At >$250.00 per helmet, that is a ton of $ and even if they are getting a discount from the athletic equipment/uniform companies for helmets/uniforms, still, that is a big amount of $ just to spend on uni's, especially in these current tough economic times.  Of course, we all know that football brings in the most  revenue for the schools with the exception of some of the $ they get from the March Madness TV network payoffs and the football bowl games; yet, still, spending that kind of $ for additional helmets/uniforms just doesn't quite make sense to me.  Perhaps Michigan did it better in that they kept their helmets and just used "throwback" jerseys, but...of course, Michigan's helmet is unique.  Anyway, what are your opinions?

I'm pretty sure the big programs get paid to wear whatever Nike/Adidas give them or whatever is written in the contract.  Michigan gets paid to wear Adidas gear.

http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2007/07/um_leaves_nike_for_adidas.html

Michigan's 2007 deal with Adidas was kind of outrageous at the time (still is when you think about it), I'm sure its been surpassed in value since by someone else, maybe not though.

[sac]

Perhaps Michigan did it better in that they kept their helmets and just used "throwback" jerseys, but...of course, Michigan's helmet is unique.  Anyway, what are your opinions?

In a way, formerd3db, the Michigan helmet is one of the less unique helmets in existence today - if you define unique as being "the only one." The helmet design (albeit different color combinations) is used by countless high schools, at least 4 DIII schools, and of course the Blue Hens of Delaware (copied from Michigan).  I believe Fritz Crisler first used it when he was coaching at Princeton, before going to Michigan (again albeit black and orange) and the Tigers still use it today. I wonder how it ever got to be known as the Michigan helmet? I think it should be considered The Princeton helmet!!

Now, if you define unique as "being without equal, distinctively characteristic, or unusual," than that's a different argument!! 

Actually the Tigers stopped using the design when Fritz Crisler left to go to Michigan in 1938.  Princeton resurrected their use of the winged helmet in 1998.

Delaware didn't use it until the 1950's.  Pretty much Michigan has used it the longest, not even sure that can be disputed by anyone, .....not that it stops people from trying.

[sac]

Here's an awesome video explaining how Michigan gets its helmets every year......it's worth a watch.  In it, it explained how the "Michigan Wing" is unique to Michigan.

http://blog.mlive.com/annarbornews/2007/07/um_leaves_nike_for_adidas.html

[formerd3db]

Mr. Ypsi:
If you go to the Eastern Michigan game, I hope you have a great time.  Too bad that our (Hope's) "bye" weekend was last weekend as if it were tomorrow, I might have joined you in going to Ypsi.

BoBo and sac:
Thanks for the info on the Michigan "winged" helmet.  Being that my dad was a "Michigan Man", I knew that.  Actually Crisler designed it so that the QB could see the receivers downfield. Also, did you know that Crisler played for A.A. Stagg?  Delaware used it because of former coach Harold "Tubby" Raymond.  Also, I was wondering if Michigan gets paid royalties for these other teams to use the design.  Actually, there were other teams that used it also - the former Flint (MI) Central High School (which they closed about 3-4 years ago) wore it; back in my collegiate playing days Adrian used it (their former head coach/current Siena Heights University head coach Jim Lyall played for Schembechler at U of Mich), Franklin College used it for a couple of years, currently Grove City (PA) College uses it (they are also called the Wolverines), Jackson (MI) high school uses it as does Godwin Heights (MI) High School, those being among the h.s. schools you mention.  Anyway, it is a neat design, IMO.

BTW, too bad that Hope (and other schools) don't get that kind of $ from Adidas for their contracts in having team uniforms, coaching geer, apparel, etc.  Back in "my days at Hope" we had Champion and Puma; Alma College had Reebok for several years in the 1990's until recently switching to Adidas. If those companies gave that kind of $ to the DIII schools, it would solve some of the $ problems for the small schools!   Anyway, thanks again for the info.

[Pat Coleman]

Mr. Ypsi:
If you go to the Eastern Michigan game, I hope you have a great time.  Too bad that our (Hope's) "bye" weekend was last weekend as if it were tomorrow, I might have joined you in going to Ypsi.

BoBo and sac:
Thanks for the info on the Michigan "winged" helmet.  Being that my dad was a "Michigan Man", I knew that.  Actually Crisler designed it so that the QB could see the receivers downfield. Also, did you know that Crisler played for A.A. Stagg?  Delaware used it because of former coach Harold "Tubby" Raymond.  Also, I was wondering if Michigan gets paid royalties for these other teams to use the design.  Actually, there were other teams that used it also - the former Flint (MI) Central High School (which they closed about 3-4 years ago) wore it; back in my collegiate playing days Adrian used it (their former head coach/current Siena Heights University head coach Jim Lyall played for Schembechler at U of Mich), Franklin College used it for a couple of years, currently Grove City (PA) College uses it (they are also called the Wolverines), Jackson (MI) high school uses it as does Godwin Heights (MI) High School, those being among the h.s. schools you mention.  Anyway, it is a neat design, IMO.

BTW, too bad that Hope (and other schools) don't get that kind of $ from Adidas for their contracts in having team uniforms, coaching geer, apparel, etc.  Back in "my days at Hope" we had Champion and Puma; Alma College had Reebok for several years in the 1990's until recently switching to Adidas. If those companies gave that kind of $ to the DIII schools, it would solve some of the $ problems for the small schools!   Anyway, thanks again for the info.

I believe Gustavus Adolphus does too.

[BoBo]

Mr. Ypsi:
If you go to the Eastern Michigan game, I hope you have a great time.  Too bad that our (Hope's) "bye" weekend was last weekend as if it were tomorrow, I might have joined you in going to Ypsi.

BoBo and sac:
Thanks for the info on the Michigan "winged" helmet.  Being that my dad was a "Michigan Man", I knew that.  Actually Crisler designed it so that the QB could see the receivers downfield. Also, did you know that Crisler played for A.A. Stagg?  Delaware used it because of former coach Harold "Tubby" Raymond.  Also, I was wondering if Michigan gets paid royalties for these other teams to use the design.  Actually, there were other teams that used it also - the former Flint (MI) Central High School (which they closed about 3-4 years ago) wore it; back in my collegiate playing days Adrian used it (their former head coach/current Siena Heights University head coach Jim Lyall played for Schembechler at U of Mich), Franklin College used it for a couple of years, currently Grove City (PA) College uses it (they are also called the Wolverines), Jackson (MI) high school uses it as does Godwin Heights (MI) High School, those being among the h.s. schools you mention.  Anyway, it is a neat design, IMO.

BTW, too bad that Hope (and other schools) don't get that kind of $ from Adidas for their contracts in having team uniforms, coaching geer, apparel, etc.  Back in "my days at Hope" we had Champion and Puma; Alma College had Reebok for several years in the 1990's until recently switching to Adidas. If those companies gave that kind of $ to the DIII schools, it would solve some of the $ problems for the small schools!   Anyway, thanks again for the info.

I believe Gustavus Adolphus does too.

Do you know if Middlebury or Grove City still wear it too?

EDIT:  Looked it up - they both do.

[BoBo]

formerd3db,

It wasn't because of Tubby Raymond that Delaware wears the winged helmet.  It was their coach before Raymond, David Nelson who started the Blue Hens wearing it. Nelson arrived at Delaware in 1950. He played at Michigan under Crisler. When Nelson got into coaching (Hillsdale, Maine, Harvard & Deleware), he brought the winged-designed helmet with him every step along the way. He was a very dedicated disciple of Crisler, so to speak.  BTW, it was Nelson who was also the originator or the Delaware Wing-T offense, I believe. Raymond didn't begin as HC of Delaware until 1966.  It was Raymond who perfected the Wing-T (IMO).  One more tidbit about the Blue Hens...they are the only school to have 3 straight HC's enshrined in the College Football Hall of Fame.  Bill Murray - no not that one - Nelson and Raymond. (ta-da!!)

[sac]

fwiw, wiki says   Grove City, Middlebury, Gustavus Adolphus and Nichols in D3

D2  Southwest Baptist used to use it but stopped, and a couple junior colleges still use it.

[sac]

Michigan high schools that wear the winged helmet...I'm not certain this is all of them, but most of them.  Various color combos and mascots of course.

Algonac
Ashley
Au Gres-Sims
Bad Axe (they even use the number on the side)
Bridgeport
Brimley
Burton Atherton
Carson City-Crystal
Carsonville-Port Sanilac
Cheboygan
Clarkston
Climax-Scotts
Dexter
Evart
Farwell
Fife Lake Forest Area
Hart
Hartland
Indian River Inland Lakes
Jackson
Kent City
Lawrence
Lincoln-Alcona
Madison Heights Madison
Maple City Glen Lake
Manistee
McBain
Otisville Lakeville Memorial
Ottawa Lake Whiteford
Parchment
Peck
Plainwell
Reed City
Saginaw Arthur Hill
Wayne Memorial
Wyoming Godwin Heights

[ThunderHead]

To chime in on all the winged Helmet talk, it definitely has Michigan roots...

http://www.spartanjerseys.com/michigan-state-football-jersey-helmet/winged-helmet/

[BoBo]

Michigan high schools that wear the winged helmet...I'm not certain this is all of them, but most of them.  Various color combos and mascots of course.

Algonac
Ashley
.
.
.

That's a lot of HS in Michigan to use the wing design. I guess you might find more than a few times two teams wearing the same helmet design, albeit in different color patterns, in the same game. Got me thinking, how may schools actually use this helmet in it's various colors.  I went to MG's Helmets...he has a whole mess of high schools listed by state with their football helmets. Alphabetically, I got through Montana (not counting in the Michigan ones you listed) and counted 69 wings in total. As I got into a few states, what shocked me was the large number of Florida State spear (or similar looking spear) and Wisconsin's motion W logo design on these HS helmets.  Those easily were out numbering the winged helmets. I was surprised.

[formerd3db]

Boba and sac:

I knew sac would come through with the "statistics" - he is "the man" for that!   Wow, I did not realize there were that many high schools using it.  One example: if Farwell (which is northwest of Alma) is using it, that must have been fairly recent as I don't recall them using it about 10-12 years ago, although I could be wrong (I know a coach who was there who is now at Alma College ).  Also, I forgot about Middlebury College using it.  Yes, different color combos: Jackson (MI) H.S. has the same colors as Princeton University and the helmets are the same - black with orange wings.  Wyoming Godwin Heights has used the Michigan helmet (same color scheme - blue with yellow wings - since the mid-1970's.  Grove City College in PA has white helmets with red wings.  Anyway, a very interesting topic, a nice "breather" in between this week's game discussions - so now back to our regular "programming", uh, I mean discussions!

Safe travels today everyone.

[OC_SID]

fwiw, wiki says   Grove City, Middlebury, Gustavus Adolphus and Nichols in D3

D2  Southwest Baptist used to use it but stopped, and a couple junior colleges still use it.

When Irv Sigler was our head coach, we had the winged helmets.