FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[sflzman]

sflzman and Raider68:
Interesting, although there is nothing on the Alma football website that mentions those changes at this time. 

I've found the Alma football website to be a dismal venue for information.  In today's world, a good website can help as a recruiting tool.  There is a real opportunity for improvement there.

Word is alma will be launhing a new athletics website this fall. It should be similar to the Redlands of California, but unique as there is only one alma as far as what I am hearing. That should be a much better way to do things...

You also have to look at it from a coach's point of view. If you're announcing every move you make coaching wise and every recruit you get, that's a huge tip for opposing coahes. That is why they usually wait to unveil hinge until it is absolutely necessary in some cases. For instance, I'm sure you have noticed, alma and hope I think is the other one, release rosters without freshman when the teams open camp, and then a week or so in full rosters come out... 

[sflzman]

As far as my thoughts on the move.

The guy coming in has a great resume (it's driving me nuts that I can't remember his name) and definately has the credentials to be defensive coordinator here. Lewis was the OC at defiance back before he came to alma if I recall correctly, and I think it will be an interesting, but good change.

Overall I think the guys that are being brought in, and the recruits that I've seen touring he halls of the Hogan Center look to be like this thing is moving forward (much like a toyota ) and will hopefully be turned around in the future..

[sac]

sflzman and Raider68:
Interesting, although there is nothing on the Alma football website that mentions those changes at this time. 

I've found the Alma football website to be a dismal venue for information.  In today's world, a good website can help as a recruiting tool.  There is a real opportunity for improvement there.

Word is alma will be launhing a new athletics website this fall. It should be similar to the Redlands of California, but unique as there is only one alma as far as what I am hearing. That should be a much better way to do things...

You also have to look at it from a coach's point of view. If you're announcing every move you make coaching wise and every recruit you get, that's a huge tip for opposing coahes. That is why they usually wait to unveil hinge until it is absolutely necessary in some cases. For instance, I'm sure you have noticed, alma and hope I think is the other one, release rosters without freshman when the teams open camp, and then a week or so in full rosters come out...

A suggestion to the web developer, ditch the sport icons and just use a words menu.  Those icons are terrible.

http://www.goredlands.com/landing/index

[sflzman]

sflzman and Raider68:
Interesting, although there is nothing on the Alma football website that mentions those changes at this time. 

I've found the Alma football website to be a dismal venue for information.  In today's world, a good website can help as a recruiting tool.  There is a real opportunity for improvement there.

Word is alma will be launhing a new athletics website this fall. It should be similar to the Redlands of California, but unique as there is only one alma as far as what I am hearing. That should be a much better way to do things...

You also have to look at it from a coach's point of view. If you're announcing every move you make coaching wise and every recruit you get, that's a huge tip for opposing coahes. That is why they usually wait to unveil hinge until it is absolutely necessary in some cases. For instance, I'm sure you have noticed, alma and hope I think is the other one, release rosters without freshman when the teams open camp, and then a week or so in full rosters come out...

A suggestion to the web developer, ditch the sport icons and just use a words menu.  Those icons are terrible.

http://www.goredlands.com/landing/index

You don't like that?  That's actually my favorite part of the Redlands design.  Then when you scroll the mouse over each icon, a mini menu pops up with links to roster, schedule, etc. and it also says the name of the sport there.  I believe it also shows a team picture on the Redlands site too.  Personally I thought that was really cool the first time I saw it, and it's unique, new, modern, and different....

[sac]

Its unnecessary fluff, drop down menu would work just fine.  I don't wish to learn the international symbols for 12 sports I don't care about.


I'm sure I visit more D3 sites than a lot people, but simple and easy to navigate is a lot better than pretty.

[sflzman]

Its unnecessary fluff, drop down menu would work just fine.  I don't wish to learn the international symbols for 12 sports I don't care about.


I'm sure I visit more D3 sites than a lot people, but simple and easy to navigate is a lot better than pretty.

And see that's where I disagree with you there.

I think this is more navigable than dropdowns. With dropdowns you have to have the mouse over sports (which some less computer savy people can't figure out since they just want to click everything) then once the menu drops down you have to figure out if it's organized by mens womens season and then once you're there you still have to navigate through dropdowns on the individual sports page. With the Redlands design you simply can click your sport, or go to the individual sport and go right to the roster for example, and not have to go tithe sport's main page first.

Just my opinion of course. Anyone else have opinions on this? Compared to maybe http://www.olivetcomets.com or http://www.adrianbulldogs.com which are both nicely designed sites utilizing dropdowns (Adrian a little flashier and clustered, olivet going for the simple classic look)

[Raider 68]

As far as my thoughts on the move.

The guy coming in has a great resume (it's driving me nuts that I can't remember his name) and definately has the credentials to be defensive coordinator here. Lewis was the OC at defiance back before he came to alma if I recall correctly, and I think it will be an interesting, but good change.

Overall I think the guys that are being brought in, and the recruits that I've seen touring he halls of the Hogan Center look to be like this thing is moving forward (much like a toyota ) and will hopefully be turned around in the future..

sflzman,

Thanks for your input. I guess we'll see how these coaching changes affect the team this fall!

[ACMIAAD3]

Well my "vested interest" is home for Spring Break and day one he was already talking about how jacked up he is for spring practice. That is a very pleasant surprise. He says they have been working hard and that the coaches want to be sucessful immediately. I would not expect anything less and I am glad they are setting the bar and no looking for a free pass. there is alot of talent on Alma's team and I am anxious to see how Coach P's influence translates to the gridiron. GO ALMA!!!

I have it on good authority that Lewis was more than pleased to move back to the offensive side of the ball. Looking forward to some smash mouth football ha ha

[formerd3db]

sflzman and AlmaFan:

Although this pertains to bb, as sflzman mentioned that Alma had some 600+ crowds for their last recent home bb games, I guess that is pretty good given the enrollment of the college itself.  It must have been neat to see that as you described the atmosphere in Smith Arena.  That said, I think that somehow, Alma needs to get the general Alma community more in support of the games similar to that which Hope has had with the Holland community for decades.  Of course, I realize that means, in part, putting a team on the floor that will be more successful in the "W" column than Alma has for a long time (i.e. returning to their better teams (and great teams in regards to Alma's entire bb history) of the late '70's, early '80's.  Yet, I can't imagine the college can't somehow get some type of campaign and promotions to get some of the townspeople out for some of the home games, including some of the older folks - the latter like bb - at least they do in Holland.

I would also like to see that for football.  They need to get more in the stands at home games.  With the "new" direction this fall, perhaps that will happen.

[Raider 68]

sflzman and AlmaFan:

Although this pertains to bb, as sflzman mentioned that Alma had some 600+ crowds for their last recent home bb games, I guess that is pretty good given the enrollment of the college itself.  It must have been neat to see that as you described the atmosphere in Smith Arena.  That said, I think that somehow, Alma needs to get the general Alma community more in support of the games similar to that which Hope has had with the Holland community for decades.  Of course, I realize that means, in part, putting a team on the floor that will be more successful in the "W" column than Alma has for a long time (i.e. returning to their better teams (and great teams in regards to Alma's entire bb history) of the late '70's, early '80's.  Yet, I can't imagine the college can't somehow get some type of campaign and promotions to get some of the townspeople out for some of the home games, including some of the older folks - the latter like bb - at least they do in Holland.

I would also like to see that for football.  They need to get more in the stands at home games.  With the "new" direction this fall, perhaps that will happen.

formerd3db,

Regarding attendance, I wonder how a school's attendance improved after winning the MIAA conference title. Winning titles does, in fact, increase interest in most programs and  all sports. Trine, won a few titles in the last few years, so the Trine posters have knowledge about  attendance figures after winning titles. The other side of it as you point out, is the efforts by the school to promote local involvement.

[AlmaFan27]

sflzman and AlmaFan:

Although this pertains to bb, as sflzman mentioned that Alma had some 600+ crowds for their last recent home bb games, I guess that is pretty good given the enrollment of the college itself.  It must have been neat to see that as you described the atmosphere in Smith Arena.  That said, I think that somehow, Alma needs to get the general Alma community more in support of the games similar to that which Hope has had with the Holland community for decades.  Of course, I realize that means, in part, putting a team on the floor that will be more successful in the "W" column than Alma has for a long time (i.e. returning to their better teams (and great teams in regards to Alma's entire bb history) of the late '70's, early '80's.  Yet, I can't imagine the college can't somehow get some type of campaign and promotions to get some of the townspeople out for some of the home games, including some of the older folks - the latter like bb - at least they do in Holland.

I would also like to see that for football.  They need to get more in the stands at home games.  With the "new" direction this fall, perhaps that will happen.

I think that Hope is a little different animal, especially as it relates to other MIAA schools.  Clearly, Hope is surrounded by a larger community in general, not to mention the Hope alumini that remain in the area.  Relative to basketball, when you sit in DeVos for game, it's clear to see that a game is an 'event' for many of the people in the stands.  There is very strong community support.  I suspect winning has a lot to do with the attendance level.

I believe the same holds true for football at Hope.  There are strong community ties...within a larger community.  That simply translates into more fans in the stands.  Winning also has an effect there too, as the crowds fluctuate in size, based on how the football team is doing.

I've always been pleasantly surprised by the attendance at an Alma home game.  I've also seen the stands clear after halftime, based on the progress of the game.  While the size of the Alma community is much smaller than Holland, I do think there are opportunities to grow the fan base.  Again, winning would seem to have a positive effect too.

[formerd3db]

Raider68 and AlmaFan:

In regards to basketball in our MIAA, that is difficult to assess because Hope and Calvin have been the dominant teams winning the titles over the last several years and decades and as noted, these schools have a huge following in regards to that anyway.  So the fluctuance in attendance with regard to which years they win the title and those in which they do not,  is a little difficult to evaluate I believe as far as to any significant statistical degree (although I admit I am not a mathmatical theory guy - I didn't do well with those courses at Hope ...well, actually I did in Calculus and Algebra, "acing" both of those courses there by reason of pure rote memory only, that math all of which was long gone and out the door shortly after graduation!! , at least for my purposes in life!!!)  Of course, Hope has led DIII in bb attendance since DeVos was built and...has higher attendance than some DI schools for those believe it or not).

On the other hand, as you guys point out, football is a little different in regards to the winning and the community following.  I agree with you that winning titles certainly elevates the attendance at home games for everyone.  Everyone wants to join in on the excitement generated - like a frenzy in some cases, which is neat, IMO!  You've already pointed that out for Trine, when they were having over 4,000+ for their games, especially last season and before.  Yet, that also happened for Olivet when they won their title (shared with us back in 2006), getting usually over 2,000 in their newly renovated stadium and field.  Also, when Hope won in 2002, as I recall (without taking the time to check the exact stats right now), about 4,000+ were at the home games.  I've already commented on Hope's fb attendance previously here in that we had 3,000+ for all the home games (except one, and that one, IMO, I truly believe was well more than the 1,400 "official" listing for that day) after returning to a winning season at 7-3 following three consecutive 3-7 season (the latter of which was so uncharacteristic of Hope College football). Yet again, Hope has tremendous support and following from the Holland community in regards to attendance.  Now, Albion is a "different animal" to figure out - even when they win, sometimes their home attendance does not "balloon" as one would expect, although they do draw well when winning (I think though, this year was an exception i.e. not having as high attendance overall as in previous years, but they were a 6-4 team).  Adrian, from what I recall some of their supporters here saying in the past (and from what I've seen when we've played there recently) doesn't seem to get as much following even in their new stadium and when winning - which also surprises me because the city of Adrian is akin to like Holland was/is - at least it is bigger than Alma, Olivet and Albion.  Now Kazoo, so many factors with regard to that even though Kazoo is a large[er] city actually huge as compared to Holland- i.e. right next to Western Michigan University, some less interest by the faculty and neighborhood people (despite Kazoo having a storied football history) and not-so-good records the past 3 decades.  However, I believe that will change and improve to some degree with their new renovated stadium and athletic fieldhouse and complex which will be ready for this fall.

Winning also brings in the recuits as many people have discussed on here in the past, ballooning numbers to the 130-160+ range, although I believe that some of the schools want to keep it down and manageable to perhaps just over 100-115 or 120 at the most for a variety of reasons (with the exception of perhaps say Olivet and Kazoo, who need and want to get their numbers "up there" on a consistent basis.

BTW, speaking of Kazoo and Albion, if you or anyone hasn't recently checked their athletic website to see the progress on the new Kazoo stadium and athletic complex (soccer, baseball and softball stadiums) and also Kazoo's field house, you should do so.  Those are neat.  I also expect that Hope will do that regarding the installation of the new synthetic turf at their stadium when that starts this spring - you should also check the photos of Hope's new outdoor tennis complex - of course, Hope has had their indoor tennis facility for several years.

[sflzman]

sflzman and AlmaFan:

Although this pertains to bb, as sflzman mentioned that Alma had some 600+ crowds for their last recent home bb games, I guess that is pretty good given the enrollment of the college itself.  It must have been neat to see that as you described the atmosphere in Smith Arena.  That said, I think that somehow, Alma needs to get the general Alma community more in support of the games similar to that which Hope has had with the Holland community for decades.  Of course, I realize that means, in part, putting a team on the floor that will be more successful in the "W" column than Alma has for a long time (i.e. returning to their better teams (and great teams in regards to Alma's entire bb history) of the late '70's, early '80's.  Yet, I can't imagine the college can't somehow get some type of campaign and promotions to get some of the townspeople out for some of the home games, including some of the older folks - the latter like bb - at least they do in Holland.

I would also like to see that for football.  They need to get more in the stands at home games.  With the "new" direction this fall, perhaps that will happen.

I think that Hope is a little different animal, especially as it relates to other MIAA schools.  Clearly, Hope is surrounded by a larger community in general, not to mention the Hope alumini that remain in the area.  Relative to basketball, when you sit in DeVos for game, it's clear to see that a game is an 'event' for many of the people in the stands.  There is very strong community support.  I suspect winning has a lot to do with the attendance level.

I believe the same holds true for football at Hope.  There are strong community ties...within a larger community.  That simply translates into more fans in the stands.  Winning also has an effect there too, as the crowds fluctuate in size, based on how the football team is doing.

I've always been pleasantly surprised by the attendance at an Alma home game.  I've also seen the stands clear after halftime, based on the progress of the game.  While the size of the Alma community is much smaller than Holland, I do think there are opportunities to grow the fan base.  Again, winning would seem to have a positive effect too.

I agree. That's the difference from Alma in the earlier years back in 80's and 90's and earlier, there were more people in the town and more community involvement, now that's nothing to say that you can't get the community involved nowadays, it just will never be to the scale of Hope, Calvin, Adrian, Kalamazoo can come out with...

[formerd3db]

sflzman:

Actually, the town of Alma has pretty much maintained a stable population of about 10,000 over the past 30-40 years (and more) despite the loss of the former Total Oil Companies huge complex and the natural gas refinery.  As you know, the largest sustainers of the economy in Alma are the remaining  "Big Three"; Alma College, the hospital and the Mason Home Retirement Facilitiy/Community.  That said, I agree with you that Alma will never have the following that Hope and the other schools you mentioned, however, I truly believe that attendance could be improved from more community support somehow.  Its just a matter of developing the right approach and programs somehow (marketing, some type of community incentives and special events at athletic contests for the general public, etc.) as well as what we've all pretty much agreed about here i.e. winning teams and comes down to getting/recruiting better athletes to choose the college.  Unfortunately, Alma will most likely continue only draw from certain areas of the state and some of that being simply due to alumni sending their kids and encouraging others they know in going there.  So we'll see what happens with football, but basketball and baseball need that type of boost also. 

[sflzman]

See regarding population, I was told that Alma topped off at the 20,000+ back in it's hay day. At this last census we barely cleared the 8 grand mark. I also know the enrollment at the local high school is only 650ish so there's not exactly a ton of kids coming up either...

Basketball needs that boost, but with the energy and how the team was playing this year, I think hargraves is going to get people in seats and get this program more well known. Especially with next year's tri valley conference alumn greg silverthorn leading the charge (shepherd) along with a talented big from swan valley (also in tvc) that if you don't push away from the basket will dunk over you every time on the low block that is rumured to be coming here. There's also talk of getting a few from almas highly talented junior class, one of them being 6-5 Kyle slagell. So I think sams recruiting hard and he's keeping the local kids local, which terry didn't do until his last class that had ithacas pride in that creed kid (6-8 and good) along with Brett lackie but neither are still here...

Baseball wise, alma I think will finish 3rd and has a chance to win a playoff game. Folske is starting to get his fingers wrapped around recruiting here in his final seasons (he's like the joe la of Michigan small college baseball) and this years team is stocked with talent from local the area, including Blake Leddy (swan valley) who will make an impact as a freshman.

Things are turning around, but they're still missing something to get those extra people in seats, and I agree there has to be more community interaction with the college teams..