FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ThunderStorm_3peat]

why take them out? so should teams like alma and olivet be taken out of Adrian's?

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Two good losses in terms of SOS (Mount Union and Butler) for Franklin, but no signature win. Beat teams they should have, lost to teams they should have. The Huntingdon win for Adrian was a signature win, on road vs far higher ranked opponent (AFCA poll, D3football.com poll, Massey, Regional Ranking), as has been stated before the win over a regionally ranked opponent (Huntingdon) is a rare thing and is looked upon strongly.

Both teams could have been hosting, Franklin had a great season and is a great team, but the RRO victory was likely the deciding factor giving Adrian a home game.

[GRIZ_BACKER]

Two good losses in terms of SOS (Mount Union and Butler) for Franklin, but no signature win. Beat teams they should have, lost to teams they should have. The Huntingdon win for Adrian was a signature win, on road vs far higher ranked opponent (AFCA poll, D3football.com poll, Massey, Regional Ranking), as has been stated before the win over a regionally ranked opponent (Huntingdon) is a rare thing and is looked upon strongly.

Both teams could have been hosting, Franklin had a great season and is a great team, but the RRO victory was likely the deciding factor giving Adrian a home game.

Makes sense to me.

[SaintsFAN]

why take them out? so should teams like alma and olivet be taken out of Adrian's?

apples and oranges, ThunderStorm.  I assume you know these are fellow league members for Adrian, yeah??

[sac]

why take them out? so should teams like alma and olivet be taken out of Adrian's?

Butler's 2 levels above D3, neither Adrian or Franklin would have a chance to win that game.  It skews the sos too much. 

Adrian SOS 181 Franklin SOS 133

I don't know where these come from but massey has the SOS Adrian #171 Franklin #162........take out Butler and Franklin's closer to #200.

[SaintsFAN]

Two good losses in terms of SOS (Mount Union and Butler) for Franklin, but no signature win. Beat teams they should have, lost to teams they should have. The Huntingdon win for Adrian was a signature win, on road vs far higher ranked opponent (AFCA poll, D3football.com poll, Massey, Regional Ranking), as has been stated before the win over a regionally ranked opponent (Huntingdon) is a rare thing and is looked upon strongly.

Both teams could have been hosting, Franklin had a great season and is a great team, but the RRO victory was likely the deciding factor giving Adrian a home game.

Agree 100%.  About the only thing that I'm sure of with this game-- is the tailgating at Adrian will never be the same after you see what the Franklin folks do for theirs.  I highly recommend stopping by for it.  Every school thinks they have a great tailgate situation (our parking lot overlooks the field at TMC) and I saw that someone said on here that Adrian has a very good tailgate -- you'll see a GREAT tailgate on Saturday.  My alma mater played AT Franklin last year.  They were impressive.

Yes -- before you say it, I can't believe I actually just authored a post about another program's tailgate.

[dc_has_been]

Two good losses in terms of SOS (Mount Union and Butler) for Franklin, but no signature win. Beat teams they should have, lost to teams they should have. The Huntingdon win for Adrian was a signature win, on road vs far higher ranked opponent (AFCA poll, D3football.com poll, Massey, Regional Ranking), as has been stated before the win over a regionally ranked opponent (Huntingdon) is a rare thing and is looked upon strongly.

Both teams could have been hosting, Franklin had a great season and is a great team, but the RRO victory was likely the deciding factor giving Adrian a home game.

Agree 100%.  About the only thing that I'm sure of with this game-- is the tailgating at Adrian will never be the same after you see what the Franklin folks do for theirs.  I highly recommend stopping by for it.  Every school thinks they have a great tailgate situation (our parking lot overlooks the field at TMC) and I saw that someone said on here that Adrian has a very good tailgate -- you'll see a GREAT tailgate on Saturday.  My alma mater played AT Franklin last year.  They were impressive.

Yes -- before you say it, I can't believe I actually just authored a post about another program's tailgate.

Wow, barely been married and you are already changing as a person!

[SaintsFAN]

Two good losses in terms of SOS (Mount Union and Butler) for Franklin, but no signature win. Beat teams they should have, lost to teams they should have. The Huntingdon win for Adrian was a signature win, on road vs far higher ranked opponent (AFCA poll, D3football.com poll, Massey, Regional Ranking), as has been stated before the win over a regionally ranked opponent (Huntingdon) is a rare thing and is looked upon strongly.

Both teams could have been hosting, Franklin had a great season and is a great team, but the RRO victory was likely the deciding factor giving Adrian a home game.

Agree 100%.  About the only thing that I'm sure of with this game-- is the tailgating at Adrian will never be the same after you see what the Franklin folks do for theirs.  I highly recommend stopping by for it.  Every school thinks they have a great tailgate situation (our parking lot overlooks the field at TMC) and I saw that someone said on here that Adrian has a very good tailgate -- you'll see a GREAT tailgate on Saturday.  My alma mater played AT Franklin last year.  They were impressive.

Yes -- before you say it, I can't believe I actually just authored a post about another program's tailgate.

Wow, barely been married and you are already changing as a person!

she's calmed me down.  I was telling one of the Mount Union radio guys that I hope to be at one of their playoff games this year, but I'm not sure.  She's already footballed out. 

[ThunderStorm_3peat]

why take them out? so should teams like alma and olivet be taken out of Adrian's?

apples and oranges, ThunderStorm.  I assume you know these are fellow league members for Adrian, yeah??

my point was if you remove the 2 best teams to make fraklins sos weaker than why not remove the two teams with a 1-19 record to make adrian look better(yes i am aware those are 2 MIAA teams but thanks for the reminder) and if im not mistaken Franklin beat Butler in 08 but i guess had franklin lost to a team thats 3-7(yes i know 3 of the L's are against a 9-1 team and 8-2 teams) that would look better than losing to #1 Mount Union and Butler

[ThunderStorm_3peat]

why take them out? so should teams like alma and olivet be taken out of Adrian's?

Butler's 2 levels above D3, neither Adrian or Franklin would have a chance to win that game.  It skews the sos too much. 

Adrian SOS 181 Franklin SOS 133

I don't know where these come from but massey has the SOS Adrian #171 Franklin #162........take out Butler and Franklin's closer to #200.

http://www.d3football.com/seasons/2012/schedule?tmpl=sos-template

[Hawks88]

Adrian SOS 181 Franklin SOS 133

Take out Mt. Union and Butler for Franklin, esp. Butler.

Butler isn't D3 so they already aren't in Franklin's SOS.

[SaintsFAN]

why take them out? so should teams like alma and olivet be taken out of Adrian's?

apples and oranges, ThunderStorm.  I assume you know these are fellow league members for Adrian, yeah??

my point was if you remove the 2 best teams to make fraklins sos weaker than why not remove the two teams with a 1-19 record to make adrian look better(yes i am aware those are 2 MIAA teams but thanks for the reminder) and if im not mistaken Franklin beat Butler in 08 but i guess had franklin lost to a team thats 3-7(yes i know 3 of the L's are against a 9-1 team and 8-2 teams) that would look better than losing to #1 Mount Union and Butler

I don't understand what you are trying to say and I tried to read through the paragraph a couple times.  I'm not even sure that we disagree.  Butler doesn't count on their SOS no matter what the record is.  They (I'm not a Franklin fan) were only judged on 9 games for the SOS.

One thing is for sure -- Franklin doesn't have a win that matches up with Adrian's win at Huntingdon. 

[formerd3db]

sac:

On a tangential thought in regards to your discussion, I would tend to disagree with you slightly regarding the Butler "thing".  I believe you are right in that neither Adrian or Franklin would have a chance at winning that game at least this year  - obviously, Franklin did not - since Butler is pretty good this year (nor would have either of those teams beat them when they won the Pioneer League title a couple of years ago).  Also, despite it being DI FCS (formerly D-IAA) albeit non-scholarship program, Butler, like many of it's Pioneer League fellow members plays a DIII team almost every year (and also those Pioneer teams play some Ivy League and other FCS teams on occasion for their non-conference games).  Up until this year, Butler has played Albion for several years in the recent past and barely won some of those games - Albion did beat them one year as I recall (without looking right now back at the past season schedules).  So while I think you are correct about this year (and again we could apply that to the year when Butler last won the title recently as I mentioned), I do believe that some of the DIII teams can beat them - they are not that good as they should be for being FCS.

All that said, Butler has improved and the Pioneer League teams continue to improve and trying to get to a much more competitive level in FCS.  I heard that as of next year the Pioneer League will receive an Automatic Bid to the NCAA FCS playoffs.  I think that is neat, however, as much as I like to see those programs get to a much more competitive FCS level, they still have a way to go yet I think that most people would agree.

Several years ago in the 1990's, Dayton had a great team and would have received an at-large bid to the D-IAA playoffs, but lost one of their regular season games near the end, so that put a "kibosh" on the potential bid.  And don't forget ab out Jim Harbaugh's San Diego Pioneer League team before he took the Stanford job.  Those teams were good FCS level talent.   

Anyway, on that same level of thought - I reviewed the attendance statistics for home games for most of the Pioneer League teams and they did not fare much better (and in some instances) the same as many of the DIII teams.  Many PL teams had only 2200-2500 for home games and many DIII teams (including those in our own MIAA) had that and/or even better.  That does not look good if one wants to be seen in the mode of DI level football.  I remember a few years back when Dayton routinely had 9,000-10,000 people for their home games in Welcome Stadium, but not now, while some DIII teams (such as St. John's and Hampden-Sydney have done that recently).  Just thought I would share some additional thoughts on all the above, again as a tangent to the discusion mentioning Butler playing Franklin (and/or other DIII teams).     

P.S.  My friend SaintsFAN is right also - Butler doesn't count in the SOS because it is FCS, not DIII.  Although (and please forgive me if I am potentially opening "a can-of-worms" here because that is not my intention), I believe such scheduled games should be (and many of us have had this discussion in past years) - in part because if a team takes a chance in scheduling non-conference game that is beyond their own level i.e. another NCAA division, I think that should count for being a plus in a stronger SOS.  Most likely, they are not supposed to win those games, but it they do, shouldn't that count because they upset an overall stronger talented team -even if that higher division team had a bad day resulting in its loss- and that does happen.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

I don't understand what you are trying to say and I tried to read through the paragraph a couple times.  I'm not even sure that we disagree.  Butler doesn't count on their SOS no matter what the record is.  They (I'm not a Franklin fan) were only judged on 9 games for the SOS.

One thing is for sure -- Franklin doesn't have a win that matches up with Adrian's win at Huntingdon.

The contention appears to be that because Adrian blew a game in a bad loss week one to Carthage that they are less deserving of a home game than a team that lost to Mount Union and Butler.

[formerd3db]

formerd3db: 

While I do have issues with several picks, my main contention lies with only one. I think without spelling it out, you can safely determine which one it is.

I think I know what you mean regarding this particular situation; D