FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Best Wishes to all the MIAA posters for a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving!

To you as well, good luck to the Purple Raiders this weekend.

[formerd3db]

I'd like to wish everyone here on our MIAA board (and our frequent visitors as well) a blessed, enjoyable and safe Thanksgiving today and through the weekend, whatever you do and wherever you will be.  It has been a pleasure and privilege in posting with all of you again this season and, of course, I look forward to continuing the same.

Best regards to all,
formerd3db

[formerd3db]

Pat Coleman:

Quick question for you.  On your front page in the section of vote for the Gagliardi Trophy, which team has the Michigan style winged helmets that is seen with the photo of the QB?  Just curious - thanks.

[Pat Coleman]

That's Mac Foote, the Middlebury QB.

[DBQ1965]

Trivia question:

Who had the first winged helmets ... a.k.a ... "Michigan style"?

[formerd3db]

Thanks Pat.  I didn't realize Middlebury had those helmets, but I like it!

DBQB1965:
Well, actually, from what I know, Fritz Crisler, who played for Stagg, was the one who designed those at Michigan back in the 1930's.  He did so (had the wings painted) because he wanted the receivers to be easier seen downfield by the passers (QB or others who threw the ball).  The only other team thereafter that had it before other teams was/is Delaware as they still use it.  Princeton of the Ivy League, Grove City and Middlebury (see above) in DIII have it.  Franklin and Adrian both used it for a short time.  I do not know who else in college might currently use the design, although there are a ton of high schools in Michigan (and other states) who do.

One other question I do not know is whether or not Michigan gets any royalty payments for use of their winged helmet design.

[Raider 68]

formerd3db,

There is a high school in the greater Cleveland area called West Geuaga, that wears
the winged helmet, colors are dark blue, white, red, and their name is the Wolverines!

[sflzman]

Can't forget the Blue Hens! Joe Flacco wore the wings at Delaware if I do remember correctly

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

Trivia question:

Who had the first winged helmets ... a.k.a ... "Michigan style"?

Indiana was the first to wear the three stripe winged helmet (1933-34) along with Georgetown University (1933-38 and 40-42). Princeton was next (1935, 37-38 to present), all before Michigan began wearing the design in 1938.

[formerd3db]

Trivia question:

Who had the first winged helmets ... a.k.a ... "Michigan style"?

Indiana was the first to wear the three stripe winged helmet (1933-34) along with Georgetown University (1933-38 and 40-42). Princeton was next (1935, 37-38 to present), all before Michigan began wearing the design in 1938.

Can't forget the Blue Hens! Joe Flacco wore the wings at Delaware if I do remember correctly

formerd3db,

There is a high school in the greater Cleveland area called West Geuaga, that wears
the winged helmet, colors are dark blue, white, red, and their name is the Wolverines!

Thanks Pat.  I didn't realize Middlebury had those helmets, but I like it!

DBQB1965:
Well, actually, from what I know, Fritz Crisler, who played for Stagg, was the one who designed those at Michigan back in the 1930's.  He did so (had the wings painted) because he wanted the receivers to be easier seen downfield by the passers (QB or others who threw the ball).  The only other team thereafter that had it before other teams was/is Delaware as they still use it.  Princeton of the Ivy League, Grove City and Middlebury (see above) in DIII have it.  Franklin and Adrian both used it for a short time.  I do not know who else in college might currently use the design, although there are a ton of high schools in Michigan (and other states) who do.

One other question I do not know is whether or not Michigan gets any royalty payments for use of their winged helmet design.

Trivia question:

Who had the first winged helmets ... a.k.a ... "Michigan style"?

DAWG:

I wasn't aware that Indiana had those in 1933-34.  If they did, it would be interesting to see the documentation of that.  Otherwise, I think you and I are both correct i.e. as the information/documentation I've always seen is that it was, indeed, Fritz Crisler who designed the helmet, yet you are correct that it was when he was at Princeton University before coming to Michigan.  Without taking the time right now in checking as to what year Crisler started at Princeton, perhaps, Indiana borrowed it from Crisler/Princeton about that time - however, I will check on that i.e. the years that he was at Princeton. Nonetheless, here is what I have seen in regards to the the known documentations:

"Michigan's famed winged football helmet dates back to 1938 when Fritz Crisler arrived from Princeton with his penchant for detail and style.  'Michigan had a plain black helmet and we wanted to dress it up a little,' Fritz recalls.  'We added some color (maize and blue) and used the same basic helmet I had designed at Princeton.'  There was one other consideration.  Fritz thought this unique helmet could be helpful to his passers when they tried to spot their receivers downfield. 'There was a tendency to use different colored helmets just for receivers in those days, but I always thought that would be as helpful for the defense as for the offense,' Fritz explained."

Source: The above is from The 1969 Football Guide and as contained in The University of Michigan Football Scrapbook, by Richard M. Cohen, Jordan A. Deutsch and David S. Neft, (BOBBS-MERRILL, Indianapolis/New York, 19780, p. 93.


Also, Raider68- interesting about that Cleveland High School.  Grove City College also has the nickname Wolverines, however, their colors are Red and White, so they have a white helmet with the red wings/3 stripes color schematic.

slfzman:  Indeed you are correct (I mentioned Delaware also).  Although, Delware's blue is not quite as dark as Michigan's and they have also had a small blue stripe on their yellow pants in the past I believe.

Anyway, interesting trivia topic - thanks DBQB1965!

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

formerd3db:

http://www.spartanjerseys.com/michigan-state-football-jersey-helmet/winged-helmet/

[formerd3db]

Follow-up Re: winged helmet design

Fritz Crisler coached at his alma mater University of Chicago from 1922-1929 as an assistant to his former coach Amos Alonzo Stagg.  Crisler then coached at the University of Minnesota from 1930-1931 and then at Princeton University from 1932-1937.  His last Princeton team was invited to the Rose Bowl but the school administration declined and instead, Columbia, which had lost to Princeton, went instead and defeated Stanford in that bowl game.

At any rate, Crisler came to the University of Michigan, where he was head coach from 1938-1949.  According to all the historical information I could find (University of Michigan's Bentley Historical Library, also on Wikipedia and some others - you can check these on the internet), those relate that it was Crisler who designed the winged helmet, first at Princeton and then brought it to Michigan, where it got national attention.  There is no mention of it being used at Minnesota or Indiana earlier, although there is documentation that different colors were being used on helmets about that time (1933 or so) as previously mentioned and that Spaulding Sporting Goods featured it on their cover in 1938 with a picture of Princeton players using it in their game against Chicago the year before. 

Just as I was unable to find any info to suggest its earlier use, DAWG has now presented us with the new historical info - very interesting! This just proves that new research can always find "the missing link" or add/correct prior historical information.  Even Crisler always said that he first designed the helmet at Princeton, however, perhaps he was talking about his own specific use and color scheme of that, which is actually supported by the information in the article/web page (Spartan Jerseys) that DAWG located and provided for us.

Anyway, thanks to DAWG for finding information that documents more history on this.

(P.S.  I ammended this post because literally as I was typing it, DAWG posted the new info).  +k to DAWG! 

[formerd3db]

Here's an interesting question/dilemma for everyone to comment on in regards to your opinions on this.  I realize this is a DI issue, however, it still is intriguing.  One of Alabama's star receivers is now out indefinitely with a fractured leg sustained in this past weekend's game against Auburn (he had surgery today it was reported and it is unclear whether he will be able to return for whatever bowl game Alabama ends up going to).  So with him out, Alabama is down to 4 or 5 receivers and it is reported that Saban is considering using their top freshman receiver prospect, who was to be redshirted this year.  He has been practicing this fall and getting a lot of reps the past 3 weeks apparently.

So the question is...if you were that player, would you sacrifice basically an entire year that you were to be red-shirted to play in two final games of the season and then only have 3 years left?  I think that most of us would answer they probably would if the head coach asked them to, however, that would still be a very difficult decision to make.  You would really be sacrificing for the good of the team, but giving up much.  I think at this point, however, that certainly a head coach could also not be faulted for not playing him and saving his red-shirt season.  If Alabama plays in the National Championship game, I'd bet that Saban would persuade the kid to play, obviously because of the high stakes.  On the other hand, if it is another bowl game and not the title game, then I would think not wasting the red-shirt year would be the better choice i.e. the better part of valor.  But...who knows with Saban!

Anyway, it is an interesting dilemma and I am interested to hear your thoughts/comments/opinions on the same.  What would you do if you were the Head Coach and what would you do if you were the player?

[NCF]

Here's an interesting question/dilemma for everyone to comment on in regards to your opinions on this.  I realize this is a DI issue, however, it still is intriguing.  One of Alabama's star receivers is now out indefinitely with a fractured leg sustained in this past weekend's game against Auburn (he had surgery today it was reported and it is unclear whether he will be able to return for whatever bowl game Alabama ends up going to).  So with him out, Alabama is down to 4 or 5 receivers and it is reported that Saban is considering using their top freshman receiver prospect, who was to be redshirted this year.  He has been practicing this fall and getting a lot of reps the past 3 weeks apparently.

So the question is...if you were that player, would you sacrifice basically an entire year that you were to be red-shirted to play in two final games of the season and then only have 3 years left?  I think that most of us would answer they probably would if the head coach asked them to, however, that would still be a very difficult decision to make.  You would really be sacrificing for the good of the team, but giving up much.  I think at this point, however, that certainly a head coach could also not be faulted for not playing him and saving his red-shirt season.  If Alabama plays in the National Championship game, I'd bet that Saban would persuade the kid to play, obviously because of the high stakes.  On the other hand, if it is another bowl game and not the title game, then I would think not wasting the red-shirt year would be the better choice i.e. the better part of valor.  But...who knows with Saban!

Anyway, it is an interesting dilemma and I am interested to hear your thoughts/comments/opinions on the same.  What would you do if you were the Head Coach and what would you do if you were the player?

Former, I will pm you in the morning. Would have done it sooner, but was just a little tired from two week-ends on the west coast. As for your story: I think it is unfair to put that kind of pressure on a freshman who might be just a little bit intimidated to do what the coach asks, especially if he also gets pressured from his teammates. I would hope they would not use this kid and let him have his four years of eligibility.The time all of us have as athletes is short and to give up a year for one or two games is asking alot from any player, even if they do get a shot at the National Championship. Just my two cents worth.

[Raider 68]

formerd3db,

Check your PM and your email!