FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Mr. Ypsi]

Here's the MIAA's options, Chuck. Seems kinda self-explanatory as to why they'll probably stick with seven football members.

Geographically, Maranatha Baptist would work pretty well - and it would give Alma (and usually Olivet) someone they can beat!

[formerd3db]

AO is clearly not familiar with the long running and now 8 year old joke about DeVos' ketchup and mustard dispensers, the cadillac of all ketchup and mustard dispensers.  A posting of photos on the college website of the grand opening celebration showed the ketchup and mustard dispensers arrogantly posing along the concourse.


I'm sorry to say I believe those photos have been lost to website upgrades.

It is, truly sad that those photos are gone.  They were the sources of such a good long series of jokes, and could be counted on to show up at just the right time whenever tensions in the room got too high.  I'll admit that after seeing AO's post I spent a good deal of time trying to find those photos somewhere.  Alas, I eventually had to give up.

I believe I found one of the pictures:

majestic

Gregory:

Thanks for the image/engraving of "beating a dead horse"!  I love it.  I've been looking for one of those for a long time.

I think we get your message, although the thought has crossed my mind that perhaps you sent it because you have experienced those containers before at some point, if you've ever been up to DeVos!   Just kidding.

[formerd3db]

Here's the MIAA's options, Chuck. Seems kinda self-explanatory as to why they'll probably stick with seven football members.

Geographically, Maranatha Baptist would work pretty well - and it would give Alma (and usually Olivet) someone they can beat!

Gregory and Ypsi:

Well, that is a decent potential choice.  Although one could make the argument that Finlandia might be an option as well despite the travel distance that would be involved since that school is in our Upper Peninsula.  However, Northern Michigan and Michigan Tech do it and it also would be comparable to that for Maranatha (Hope has played the latter before in football).

I also agree about them being potential win for Olivet, particularly this year, although not so sure about Alma!   As far as Calvin adding football, I have very recently talked with some sources who know and despite there having been a much more positive attitude toward that last year or so when they had the new exploratory committee, it appears that is "dead in the water" right now for the next couple of years at the very least, if ever.  IMO, that is too bad, but we've had much interesting conversation about this in past years here on this board and others.

[Mr. Ypsi]

Greg, just thought of another possibility - Chicago.  Being an affiliate member of the MIAA would seem to make much more sense than being an affiliate member of the SAA.  Though I admit I have no idea how locked in to the SAA they may be.  (And being a member of the UAA, obviously geography is not of much concern to them! )

[Mr. Ypsi]

formerd3db, Maranatha went winless 3 of their 5 years in the NathCon, for heaven's sake!  I think Alma could take 'em!

[Pat Coleman]

For the next couple of years, the MIAA and NACC are dealing with the mutual seven-team status by playing a crossover game midseason on each team's conference bye week.

[Mr. Ypsi]

For the next couple of years, the MIAA and NACC are dealing with the mutual seven-team status by playing a crossover game midseason on each team's conference bye week.

Ah, that solves the scheduling problem for both conferences, but where does it leave poor Maranatha Baptist?  Their entire 'conference season' schedule this year is playing NACC teams who used to be conference rivals.  I wonder if they will be able to survive as a d3 football independent.  While they were not competitive even in the weak NathCon, they may regret their decision to drop out (or were they pushed?).  (I'm unfamiliar with the details - are they an independent only in football, or did they leave the NathCon entirely?)

[Pat Coleman]

They were pushed out of the conference altogether.

I only know of one school playing MBBC in football next year: Wash U. Nobody in the NACC is playing them.

[sac]

Chicago wouldn't play anyone in the MIAA, too short of a flight.


To my knowledge Finlandia is still hoping to roll out football in 2014.  That was contingent on completing renovations to their field.  I don't think that has happened yet.

I really have no idea how Finlandia's recruiting pitch goes but they have 7 kids from California on the soccer team with NJ, TX, MD, SC, NM and British Columbia also represented.  On the basketball team 5 kids from Florida and California along with Detroit and suburban Detroit kids.

[formerd3db]

Mr. Ypsi, Pat, Sac:

Interesting discussion.  As Mr. Ypsi initiated this, I would just add that I either missed or don't understand your question about "easing the conference schedule".  To my knowledge, our league has no problems with how it is now.  The MIAA had the 6 playing football teams for years, before they had to add an affiliate i.e. Defiance College to obtain the AQ7.  Then, of course, when Defiance left to joint the HCAC (which was a better fit for them), Wisconsin Lutheran came in as you know.  Trine came in when WLC decided to join their current league (i.e. the revised current league), in part, due to the travel distance, although they still play MIAA teams in non-conference as we all know, which is a lot less expensive as opposed to having the additional expenses for more games traveling to MI.  Recall that Trine had to go through the transition from NAIA scholarship to NCAA DIII provisional status process to full membership.

So I don't think we are looking for another team to add; no real reason at this time to do so, other than if Calvin ever decided to add football and when a team like Finlandia will need to join a conference (their other consideration is joining the Wisconsin league of like schools, Wis Lutheran, Lakeland, etc.) since the travel distance would be essentially the same as it is in playing the MIAA schools.

Also, the MIAA schools, like all the other conferences for the most part, have kept their travel non-conference games to within a reasonable travel distance, obviously to keep the costs down.  Traveling to the Chicago area and mid-Illinois, anywhere in Indiana or Ohio is not a problem.  Alma had a rather long travel game a couple of years ago when they went to Bethany, WVa and in the mid-1990's they went to Georgia and also Drake, but the days of those long trips are pretty much long gone.

U of Chicago has played Kalamazoo in football in recent years (of course, they have played Kazoo, Hope in bb), as they consider Kazoo in "like philosophy" as some have said , however, I do not see them ever joining the MIAA as a football affiliate.

As far as Maranatha Baptist, Pat, do you see them possibly having to drop the football program in view of their current state? (kind of like Blackburn ended up doing?)

Back to Finlandia- it is amazing that they can draw from those other states regarding soccer as Mr. Ypsi has mentioned.  They have come a long way since being the former Soumoi College in adding their athletic programs, including hockey. The latter which is another reason why I've said if they can do that, then Hope and Calvin need to make their hockey programs official "varsity" like Adrian has, although, obviously there are other factors involved with that i.e. Title IX, but it could be done (for Hope, the $ is not really a problem).  Regarding their football program, I thought their goal was for 2014 or 2015 and renovations to their field were approved and in the works (they already have turf as I recall).

Anyway, sorry for the rambling post here, although just talking in general.  I guess I digressed a bit as the original discussion and inquiry was the "ease of scheduling" for the MIAA.  Again, I am not aware of that as being a current problem or concern of the MIAA coaching staffs/the conference (if you were talking about the "bye" situation, they all like that as it provides an additional week for healing of the minor injuries of those "banged up" and also a rest/regrouping period).  Your further thoughts?, gentlemen.

[Pat Coleman]

I haven't heard anything about Maranatha dropping football. Even though they're not particularly good at the sport, they take a lot of pride in the program and work hard and have a lot of alumni involvement. It would be significantly difficult to put together even a nine-game schedule, though, from schools such as Trinity Bible, Kentucky Christian, perhaps Presentation. Maybe they can pick up one MIAA school and a Heartland school here and there.

I haven't heard a thing about Finlandia football in over a year. If they don't have a coach they are not playing in 2014. They wouldn't be able to schedule anyone. They were originally planning to play in 2012. You need almost two years' lead time to hire a coach, recruit and schedule football.

[formerd3db]

Pat, thanks for the additional information.  It is good to hear they are not in the "mindset" of Swarthemore of a few years ago.  They will just have to endure a tough period like Macalaster did a few years ago, but it can be done.

To our MIAA posters/colleagues:

An very interesting day yesterday for the league.  Olivet wins a close one and is now 5-0, with that first win still eluding poor Alma.  And Kazoo knocking off Trine- wow!  Adrian is a good team, but Hope self-destructed with the offense just not being able to get it done. The running game was fine, but the passing game failed yesterday and...unfortunately, we went back to the nemesis of 2-3 and 4 years ago of giving up the long bomb TD pass and long passes.  Ouch!  So it will be interesting to see what plays out from here for the league for all the teams.

The Northwestern/Ohio State game-Northwestern is good, but just couldn't quite hold on.  Ohio State was impressive.  However, while this did not actually cost Northwestern the game, the officiating was terrible-simply terrible.  And it is nauseating listening to biased announcers (Herbstreet and Musburger).  Oh well.   

[NCF]

Pat, thanks for the additional information.  It is good to hear they are not in the "mindset" of Swarthemore of a few years ago.  They will just have to endure a tough period like Macalaster did a few years ago, but it can be done.

To our MIAA posters/colleagues:

An very interesting day yesterday for the league.  Olivet wins a close one and is now 5-0, with that first win still eluding poor Alma.  And Kazoo knocking off Trine- wow!  Adrian is a good team, but Hope self-destructed with the offense just not being able to get it done. The running game was fine, but the passing game failed yesterday and...unfortunately, we went back to the nemesis of 2-3 and 4 years ago of giving up the long bomb TD pass and long passes.  Ouch!  So it will be interesting to see what plays out from here for the league for all the teams.

The Northwestern/Ohio State game-Northwestern is good, but just couldn't quite hold on.  Ohio State was impressive.  However, while this did not actually cost Northwestern the game, the officiating was terrible-simply terrible.  And it is nauseating listening to biased announcers (Herbstreet and Musburger).  Oh well.

I agree with you on the announcer-especially Musburger-too much of a homer! As for Northwestern, they seem to fimd a way to lose.

[RFMichigan]

To our MIAA posters/colleagues:
An very interesting day yesterday for the league.  Olivet wins a close one and is now 5-0, with that first win still eluding poor Alma.  And Kazoo knocking off Trine- wow!  Adrian is a good team, but Hope self-destructed with the offense just not being able to get it done. The running game was fine, but the passing game failed yesterday and...unfortunately, we went back to the nemesis of 2-3 and 4 years ago of giving up the long bomb TD pass and long passes.  Ouch!  So it will be interesting to see what plays out from here for the league for all the teams.

I checked with interest the MIAA results yesterday and was surprised by the circumstances if not the scores:

a) How did Adrian hold Hope's Atwell to four completions? That is almost inconceivable. I noticed on the play-by-play there were a host of "QB hurry by . . ." Did Adrian sell out on blitzing to get QB pressure at the expense of the rushing attack? Lots of dropped passes? Makes no sense.

b) Kalamazoo over Trine. Does this put Kalamazoo in the early conversation for the conference title?

c) Olivet over Alma. Is Alma snakebit or what. First they lose after blowing a 4th quarter lead last week, and then this week. . . yikes.
      Please explain: With about 4 minutes to play and Alma up 4, the Scots had a 4th and 2 from Olivet's 33. There was then a 5 yard illegal procedure penalty on Alma. Were they going for it on 4th down? (I'm assuming they were.) After the penalty they decide to punt, and the resulting yardage has the ball going back four yards from the line of scrimmage. Bad snap to the punt that the punter had to retrieve and then got off a rushed punt that didn't go anywhere?
     So then Alma makes a play which would put Olivet in a 4th and 5 just over midfield with about a minute left and they proceed to . . . get a late-hit 15 yard penalty to keep the drive alive. Olivet goes on to score a TD with 47 seconds left. Gulp.
     To their credit, Alma got a decent return off a short kickoff after Olivet's TD (and missed extra point!) and managed get into position to hit a long field goal to tie the game at the horn, but then had a "dropped pass" on 4th down on their possession in overtime.
Tough luck for the Scots.

[formerd3db]

NCF:
I agree with you also.  Northwestern is a very good team, but they do need to somehow find a way to finish a game when they have a lead.  "Getting over that hump" is not easy.  I kind of compare them to Michigan's teams that historically have had a tendency to do that i.e. late in games when they have a slim lead and all they have to do is get some first downs to keep the drive going and run out the time.  One aspect I noticed, however, is that Northwestern needs to do a better job on their pass coverage.  They either blew coverage schemes or their coordinator had it wrong because aside from their RB, that is how Ohio State beat them because Northwestern kept leaving a receiver wide open with no one covering them.  If they had rectified that problem, I think Northwestern would have won that game.

Also, I'll just go out on a limb here and say it...I am not an Ohio State fan, nor an Urban Meyer fan at all.  Most here, know that I am a Michigan fan, but putting that particular bias aside, I can't stand Ohio State's antics.  Their players are trash talkers and self/individual promotors,  much of that was evident in last night's game.  Also everyone knows that "character" is not one of the requirements in Meyer's recruiting criteria at all.  He is in the category of Saban, Miles, and Kelly in my book.   Okay, enough of that bashing for now.

As far as Hope's game, yes, unfortunately Atwell did not have a good game at all yesterday.  While he was hurried often, still he just was not accurate, had very weak throws on many occasions, although some of the blame goes to the receiving core also as there were dropped passes and they were not running good routes.  It wasn't, however, that Adrian's secondary was that good, IMO; they aren't bad, but Hope's passing game had it been on the level it was for the first 3 games, the game would have not turned out the way it did.  Of course, the long-bomb TD Adrian had was a "back breaker". 

Kazoo, at least for now, is indeed in the mix for the title.