FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[wabco]

I do not mean this as some negative statement against the Albion students or football team.  BUT: Is there not one successful (in business) football supporter who would alone or with "friends" provide the funds necessary to renovate the press box?  It has been the boat anchor there forever.  Recruiting students would be aided (indirectly) by this improvement ... image improved ... the fact that this press box discussion is occurring is a negative killer toward the positive thoughts which are required for Albion to charge a recruit a boat load of tuition as a private liberal arts school and recruit students verses its competition.

Wouldn't it be a super positive to be able to hold a playoff game when you otherwise qualify to be in the playoffs? Wouldn't have happened this year when paired against #7 Wabash ... but could in the future.  NOW is the time to get cooking,  Albion alums !You all are the game changers.  President Ditzler should be receptive to all positive support.  Al - bi - on ... go Albion! 

And ... returning to the focus for this coming game ... FEED MASON, go Wabash D, send Albion back to work on their press box during the winter.  WAF

[IoTriumphe]

Gentlemen:

A great discussion and very relevant.  I agree with Wally regarding the most probable reason why Albion not hosting.  However, I also believe that had that even been a possible consideration, most likely, it would not have happened due to, yes, the press box.  Some of you may recall that was the main reason why Carthage (WI) was not allowed to host a playoff game just a few years ago, until their press box was enlarged/renovated. 

I love Sprankle-Sprandle Stadium-the historic/traditional college atmosphere is awesome, including the old concrete walls.  That field has been used since 1900, and the old football field in the decade before that is where the home stands and building is now. I truly believe that if Albion renovates their press box (and the really need to-I know from my own visiting coaching experience there as DAWG pointed out ), there would be no "points against them" for eventually hosting a playoff game in some future year.  The facilities as they are now, with that renovation, would be more than adequate.

With regard to the basketball facility, I, too, like the historic aspect of Kresge.  I hope that it would be possible that Albion would renovate that and continue to use it for basketball.  I can see where they (the administration) might potentially desire to build an entire new facility (either on that site or perhaps over where the athletic complex is already) in "keeping up with the Jones'" in the MIAA i.e. all the other MIAA schools new bb facilities.  However, realistically, as some of you point out (and I do not intend this in a disrespectful way whatsoever-even though Albion is my/our heated rivalry,  )), Albion is never going to draw the attendance figures for basketball like Hope or Calvin does, so they really do not need a huge seating facility.  And let's be honest (even thought the NCAA is, perhaps, a bit shady on that side at times I think we all agree-I could share with you some behind-the-scenes stories that I know of in the past, but will pass on that for legit reasons)-a great number of the early host team facilities for the bb tournaments do not have huge seating capacities i.e. are very much like Albion and you do not draw huge crowds for those early games-period.

So, IMO, I think that a very nicely renovated Kresge at Albion would be a great and more than adequate facility.  Thanks to all of you for a really great and fun discussion.

Regarding Kresge. As a Briton, I completely agree - Albion will never pull the crowds that Calvin and Hope do and nor should they try. There are too many things that play into that even if Albion "built it, they wouldn't come". But, I do think the College could do a little updating. I for one, would love to see the facade stay and basketball/volleyball continue to be played in the building. It's an anchor to the quad, historic, and beautiful. It's where commencement is held and too important to the tradition of the College.

There were talks about 10 years ago about swapping the theatre and the basketball facilities and maintaining the look of the quad, but I think those days are gone. I've heard rumors that Albion would like to create a practice facility in the green space in the corner of the quad and expand the back of Kresge to allow more room and bring the facility up to current building codes. Perhaps move the cadaver lab that's across from the visitor's locker room.

The entire athletic area of campus needs an upgrade. The school is close to finishing the second phase of an athletic project and I hope they look at the Dow Center as the next project. Locker rooms need updating, the indoor track needs to be expanded to 200m, the pool needs to be expanded and there is a large need for additional work out areas as prospective students, athletes and non athletes, are very interested in new age facilities and the current area barely fits the football team. Meaning, if they're uses the weight room no one else can use it.

[IoTriumphe]

I do not mean this as some negative statement against the Albion students or football team.  BUT: Is there not one successful (in business) football supporter who would alone or with "friends" provide the funds necessary to renovate the press box?  It has been the boat anchor there forever.  Recruiting students would be aided (indirectly) by this improvement ... image improved ... the fact that this press box discussion is occurring is a negative killer toward the positive thoughts which are required for Albion to charge a recruit a boat load of tuition as a private liberal arts school and recruit students verses its competition.

Wouldn't it be a super positive to be able to hold a playoff game when you otherwise qualify to be in the playoffs? Wouldn't have happened this year when paired against #7 Wabash ... but could in the future.  NOW is the time to get cooking,  Albion alums !You all are the game changers.  President Ditzler should be receptive to all positive support.  Al - bi - on ... go Albion! 

And ... returning to the focus for this coming game ... FEED MASON, go Wabash D, send Albion back to work on their press box during the winter.  WAF

Albion has a catch 22 with a lot of donors. While we have a large history of athletic success and wonderful stories, there are many in the donor base that want to see more of a focus on academics. I would argue that K, Albion and Hope are the top three schools in the MIAA, but in the GLCA we all fall short. Many donors would like to see that change. Which is admirable but the large picture isn't always there. I think there is also donor fatigue, especially towards athletics. But there is a reason Mauri Ditzler was brought to campus and I think that will change here soon.

[wabco]

Mauri Ditzler is a good guy from the leadership strata of Wabash.  Did a fine job as 13 year President of Monmouth. He understands the balance/leadership which comes from the student athletes both on the campus and after.  There is a time for doing and I hope he will be a doer.  I am from Grand Rapids and my sense is that, for whatever reason, Albion has lost a step in that trilogy of Hope, and Albion.  That is why I think this playoff spot is so big for the school.  You are either with THE BEST or with the rest.  Mauri understands this.  Couple up with him.  Make the easy puts first ... there is no time for the guns or butter discussion  or donor fatigue.  Leaders breed other leaders.  I think of Albion as in the "leaders" category.  So alums ... don't get fatigue ... get involved and pursue your passion at the same time.  Albion football is a passion AND a central element in the recruitment of students (simply tote up the number in the 4 years student body as to how many students at one time or another were footballer.  Without having the data, I already know it is a large % (affinity group if you will).  A press box ... not deterred by the "we must plan for a new stadium" group coupled with a new or revitalized theater may be the answer.  Little steps little POSITIVE steps.

Wabash is building a 2 million dollar wrestling practice center which will share dressing rooms with tennis ... while at the same time focusing on a main  mission NOW 4 new dorms costing "X" times that.  Guns and butter must go together.  (The wrestling facility was the brainchild / passion of alumni wrestlers (Wabash finished # 3 in the country in Div. III last year) ... who also ... supported the dorm initiative.  FIND the footballers who will help with football and also will understand the need for the other main foci of Albion.  They are there.

I firmly believe Wabash will win Saturday.  I want Albion to play their hearts out and leave the field proud and bringing pride to Albion.  We play again next fall.  We will have a fun tailgate ... hopefully with Mauri participating ... maybe this is a good step for both.  The Wabash verses Albion games of the past years were both a spirited and a good rivalry. Lets get it going again.

WAF

[Pat Coleman]

There are two basketball references here, one IO addressed.  The other was 20 years ago Hope's home basketball court was deemed inadequate the year they were unbeaten forcing them to move to an even more 'inadequate' on campus facility.  Even though Hope had hosted tournament games on the same court and even hosted a women's Final Four only 3 years earlier.


It so happened Albion's coach, Mike Turner, was the head of the Great Lakes Regional committee that year.  He wrongly took some flak from those in Holland for the whole deal, it was the NCAA's decision.

One of the lovely quirks of basketball is that NCAA Tournament games must be played on a 94-foot floor, but regular season games aren't. Holland CC was a few feet short and once that was revealed, it was ruled out as an NCAA Tournament venue.

I think it's all worked out for Hope.

Imagine if we could play football on a short field? Even if that's one that's slightly narrower or just with short end zones (Wrigley aside).

[Cousin Eddie]

I would have to agree that the Albion facilities do need some upgrades.  As IO mentioned, part of it is due to donors wanting to focus more on the academic side of things.  But there some internal factors that have kept some of the donations towards football and athletics down.  Part of the issue stems from members of the '94 team not having a warm inclination towards Coach Rundle taking over after Pete Schmidt left. A number of them have said that they would not donate until he is gone.  They worked at spreading that sentiment to a number of players that went through the Schmidt years.  Now I know that this does not account for all, but when Wabco asks about some of the more successful alumni, they would fall into this category.  Another example would be several years back, prior to the current AD being hired at Albion, there were plans to update the locker rooms with wooden lockers.  Like the one's seen at DI and pro level locker rooms.  A lot of the funding was in place but internal issues arose that kept the project from moving forward.  At the time donations had been lined up to get the project started and it would have began with the men's locker rooms first as they take up the most space.  However the plan was scrapped until all funding could be found so that all locker rooms could be done at once.  Now I am not fully up on Title IX and so not sure if maintaining balance in regards to Title IX was the driving factor, but the main rumor at the time was that the Interim/Acting AD was the women's soccer coach and she shot down the plan because she did not want the football locker room to be the first to be updated.  For the years that Albion did not have a true AD, they really struggled to maintain support and move any facilities forward.  It wasn't until the current AD was hired and the office properly reestablished that Albion has seen the improvements and progress it now has. 

[sac]

The paint job in Kresge looks nice though.

[ThunderStorm_3peat]

Just wanted to say something about the whole facilities thing being an issue, Depauw hosted Trine in 2010 and they had the worst facilities I had ever played at. Idk how Depauw got to host that game but they did.  We called it DePauwchwitz it was so bad.  Having played games at Albion I see no reason they couldn't host a game if DePauwchwitz could. 

[sigma one]

DePauw has completely redone their football, and other, fields.  They've added turf and gotten rid of what used to pass for, and was a disgrace as, a visitors' dressing room.  The old home stands are still there, but they tore down the stands on the opposite side, and they did not replace them.  So they bring in a (small) temporary grandstand during the FB season.  For the Bell Game they bring in a lot of extra seating for both DPU and Wabash.  I'm no fan of stands on one side of the field only, but what they have now is still a significant upgrade.  Because the schools are less than 30 miles apart, and the Monon Bell game is such a classic, Wabash takes its entire roster to Blackstock Stadium when the game is at DPU.  The old "dressing room" had  poor space for maybe 25-40 players (no kidding).  Many Wabash players changed in a tent (no kidding) with plastic windows so anyone could see in (no kidding).

[ThunderStorm_3peat]

Well in 2010 when Depauw had a bad grass field and garbage locker rooms, a far superior Trine team had to travel to DePauwchwitz and play in that squalor.  I just don't think Albion's facilities have that much to do with them not hosting and more to do with no MIAA team being able to be competitive in the playoffs outside of a 3 year stretch by Trine. 

[IoTriumphe]

Well in 2010 when Depauw had a bad grass field and garbage locker rooms, a far superior Trine team had to travel to DePauwchwitz and play in that squalor.  I just don't think Albion's facilities have that much to do with them not hosting and more to do with no MIAA team being able to be competitive in the playoffs outside of a 3 year stretch by Trine.

Facilities for NCAA post-season events have nothing to do with "quality" but rather can they check a box as having a space that does "X" or satisfies a certain set of conditions. Quality doesn't matter.

I really don't think the NCAA looks at what was done previously in the play offs, whether it was Trine's run five years ago or Albion's run twenty years ago.

[sac]

Well in 2010 when Depauw had a bad grass field and garbage locker rooms, a far superior Trine team had to travel to DePauwchwitz and play in that squalor.  I just don't think Albion's facilities have that much to do with them not hosting and more to do with no MIAA team being able to be competitive in the playoffs outside of a 3 year stretch by Trine.

Facilities for NCAA post-season events have nothing to do with "quality" but rather can they check a box as having a space that does "X" or satisfies a certain set of conditions. Quality doesn't matter.

I really don't think the NCAA looks at what was done previously in the play offs, whether it was Trine's run five years ago or Albion's run twenty years ago.

Quality is a factor, it just kind of depends how you define quality.  It certainly is not the sole factor.

[wally_wabash]

Didn't Adrian host a game in the not-too-distant past?

[sac]

Didn't Adrian host a game in the not-too-distant past?

2012 they hosted Franklin. 

[IoTriumphe]

I would have to agree that the Albion facilities do need some upgrades.  As IO mentioned, part of it is due to donors wanting to focus more on the academic side of things.  But there some internal factors that have kept some of the donations towards football and athletics down.  Part of the issue stems from members of the '94 team not having a warm inclination towards Coach Rundle taking over after Pete Schmidt left. A number of them have said that they would not donate until he is gone.  They worked at spreading that sentiment to a number of players that went through the Schmidt years.  Now I know that this does not account for all, but when Wabco asks about some of the more successful alumni, they would fall into this category.  Another example would be several years back, prior to the current AD being hired at Albion, there were plans to update the locker rooms with wooden lockers.  Like the one's seen at DI and pro level locker rooms.  A lot of the funding was in place but internal issues arose that kept the project from moving forward.  At the time donations had been lined up to get the project started and it would have began with the men's locker rooms first as they take up the most space.  However the plan was scrapped until all funding could be found so that all locker rooms could be done at once.  Now I am not fully up on Title IX and so not sure if maintaining balance in regards to Title IX was the driving factor, but the main rumor at the time was that the Interim/Acting AD was the women's soccer coach and she shot down the plan because she did not want the football locker room to be the first to be updated.  For the years that Albion did not have a true AD, they really struggled to maintain support and move any facilities forward.  It wasn't until the current AD was hired and the office properly reestablished that Albion has seen the improvements and progress it now has.

I can't attest to the ins and outs for the Rundle/Schmidt thing. But I do know there are a lot of '94 players who feel that the College could do more to honor them. I would also argue that while there are many '94 graduates that are hitting their stride they probably haven't accumulated wealth to the point of providing significant gifts yet. There was, and I do think somewhat still, an internal struggle for funding athletics. They do not want to be seen as leading the pack or pulling an Adrian by investing solely in athletics, but it really has put them in a "catch up" position. I love the armchair fundraisers who just say "go find someone who will give you the money!" I'm sure the new leadership is doing that, but I don't think it's simply that easy. Albion has some incredibly successful alumni for a small school - but the case for support seems to fall on academics  and now the town.