FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[Mr. Ypsi]

Alas, the MIAA still gets no respect.  Olivet goes to JCU first round - I'd hoped for something slightly less daunting. 

Maybe JCU will still be celebrating their win over UMU (breaking UMU's streak of 7,896 consecutive regular-season wins).  I fear JCU is probably better than SJF, and I'm sure you recall how that turned out!

JCU is good, but not unbeatable. Having not paid any attention to Olivet and strictly looking at stats, I think the matchup favors Carroll. Good young QB, athletic receivers. It'll be a tough go, but I am not counting any chickens just yet.

Oh, I'm not throwing in the towel!

But ever since Albion came from nowhere to shock the D3 world by winning the Stagg in 1994, if the MIAA has won a single playoff game I can't recall who or when.  I had hoped that Olivet might have earned a 5th or 6th seed, but this appears to be a 7th seed (I'm assuming JCU is the #2).  As Franklin (and now RHIT) has learned, being 'big dog' in a weak conference still doesn't get you squat.

[formerd3db]

Alas, the MIAA still gets no respect.  Olivet goes to JCU first round - I'd hoped for something slightly less daunting. 

Maybe JCU will still be celebrating their win over UMU (breaking UMU's streak of 7,896 consecutive regular-season wins).  I fear JCU is probably better than SJF, and I'm sure you recall how that turned out!

JCU is good, but not unbeatable. Having not paid any attention to Olivet and strictly looking at stats, I think the matchup favors Carroll. Good young QB, athletic receivers. It'll be a tough go, but I am not counting any chickens just yet.

Oh, I'm not throwing in the towel!

But ever since Albion came from nowhere to shock the D3 world by winning the Stagg in 1994, if the MIAA has won a single playoff game I can't recall who or when.  I had hoped that Olivet might have earned a 5th or 6th seed, but this appears to be a 7th seed (I'm assuming JCU is the #2).  As Franklin (and now RHIT) has learned, being 'big dog' in a weak conference still doesn't get you squat.

Mr. Ypsi:

The last time that an MIAA team won a first round playoff game, since the Albion 1994 National Championship, was Trine in 2010.  They went 10-0 for the regular season, then beat DePauw in the first round 45-35, but lost to UW-Whitewater 45-31 (a measly 1472 in attendance at UW-W's huge Perkins Stadium, which is listed as seating 13,000+; although I won't mock that because UW-W had some crowds of 12, 184 and 11,448 to a couple of their games!).

Trine also advanced past a first round playoff game the year before in 2009 when they beat Case Western Reserve 51-38 but then lost to Wittenberg 34-17  the following week in the second round.  The year prior to that in 2008, Trine lost a first round game  (Hope lost in the first round to Mount Union back in 2006-I can't believe it has been 10 years and that game was against Garcon and Co. I covered the game for us traveling with the team).

Anyway, there are other years that MIAA teams have lost in the first round (including Hope, Adrian, Olivet, Albion and Adrian), but Albion and Trine are the only two who have advanced to the second round (or, again, beyond in Albion's case in 1994).

It would be nice to see Olivet win, and I think they might have a chance, however, there is obviously no room for mistakes at all.  If they commit the latter, JCU will crush them I believe.  But, of course, I am rooting for our MIAA representative.

BTW, what do you think your Eastern Michigan's chances are for winning at least one of their remaining two games (Northern Illinois and Central Michigan)?  It would be nice to see them end up at least 7-5 rather than 6-6 (they might get a better bowl than a "crudy one" if they win the last two).    

[Mr. Ypsi]

Oh, yeah - I forgot about Trine's Watt era!

EMU has a better record than either NIU or CMU, so why not win 'em both!   Of course, that would just hasten the day that some bigger name school poaches away Coach Creighton, so maybe we better not get greedy!  

#2 son watched MSU finally win a Big 10 game by absolutely destroying Rutgers, and commented that here was finally a Big 10 team that EMU could absolutely dominate (he thought EMU would win by 30+; I suspect he was right).  I'm not sure that even Northwestern back in the bad old days was as pathetic as this year's Rutgers team!

[formerd3db]

Some general opining here after this afternoon's games...

I am surprised Olivet got rolled like they did.  Granted, JCU is a good team, however, I really thought Olivet would put up some better scoring numbers than that.  I should have known as Olivet, while doing very well this year, still was a "up and down" team during their games, barely beating Hope, but coming back and winning against others by a fair margin.  Their opening game loss perhaps should have been another indication that, again, the MIAA has a long way to go yet to be more competitive in the NCAA playoffs.  But, if Olivet and the others committ to playing better non-conf games such as SJF, etc (and Hope, Albion going back to playing the likes of Wabash like Albion has, and Wheaton, DePauw, etc.) I think eventually improved showing in the playoffs (like Trine did in their run) is possible.  Nonetheless, congratulations to Olivet players, staff and fans for a very fine season and their MIAA title again.  A neat "return to tradition" for them as far as MIAA fb history goes.

I was surprised to see that only 800 were in attendance for the Thomas More/Witt playoff game today.  I would have expected much more being the schools distance in between is not far at all and both are good teams for the playoffs this year.  Was TMC students on break? I would think not since Thansgiving is not until this next week.  Disappointing IMO.

I was also surprised to see that Monmouth lost to Coe in their 1st round game.  I thought Monmouth would go further.

Mount Union winning after losing last week not surprising.  However, it will not be a "cake walk" for them to get back to the Stagg. Yet, I would not count them out.

Would be interested to hear from you others on today's games.

[sac]

Oh, yeah - I forgot about Trine's Watt era!

EMU has a better record than either NIU or CMU, so why not win 'em both!   Of course, that would just hasten the day that some bigger name school poaches away Coach Creighton, so maybe we better not get greedy!  

#2 son watched MSU finally win a Big 10 game by absolutely destroying Rutgers, and commented that here was finally a Big 10 team that EMU could absolutely dominate (he thought EMU would win by 30+; I suspect he was right).  I'm not sure that even Northwestern back in the bad old days was as pathetic as this year's Rutgers team!

One of Rutgers two wins this year was against 7-4 New Mexico who masseyratings currently has rated ahead of Eastern Michigan.

Rutgers is bad......but they're bad because they're mostly so badly over-matched in the East Division of the Big Ten who at present time has 3 teams ranked in the top 8 of college football a 4th who participated in last years playoff and also played Washington who's in the playoff mix as well.  Rutgers is pretty much 3 plays away from somehow managing 3 wins against Iowa, Minnesota and Indiana and being 5-6 and looking at becoming bowl eligible against Maryland.

I'm in total agreement Rutgers is terrible, I called them the worst Big Ten team I've ever seen in person immediately after the Michigan State game.   Even with some deeper thought on the subject I still think that might be true.  But they could play with EMU because that's their level.

[Mr. Ypsi]

EMU downed CMU with a late, come-from-behind TD to finish the regular season 7-5, their first winning record in 27 years!  With 6 wins they were already bowl eligible, but not every bowl-eligible team gets an invite, especially if they have no 'rep'.  With 7 wins I'd be shocked if they don't get invites SOMEWHERE for the first time in 29 years.

Since that brings Chris Creighton's three-year record only up to 10-26 (and ONE good season could be a fluke), I don't think we need to worry much about losing him yet.  But if he goes at least 7-5 next year, some bigger name, bigger bucks school in desperate need of a turnaround (Purdue, perhaps?), will probably come calling and he'll be like Ed Chlebek after our last bowl game in 1987 who left for Cal-Berkeley.  Such is life in the 'dregs' of D1!

[Raider 68]

To all the MIAA posters, have a Happy and Safe Thanksgiving!

[Captain_Joe08]

Happy Thanksgiving from the NACC board!

[formerd3db]

Some interesting match-ups at the DIII playoffs continue.  I was surprised that Johns Hopkins didn't have an even better showing in their game as compared to previous years in their playoff games.  They seem to be like our MIAA and a couple of other conferences in having difficulty in advancing past the second round.  Anyway, I suspect it will be MHB vs. Mount and UW-W versus Oshkosh for the semis (unless St. Thomas sneaks back in there).

Regarding the DII playoffs, it will be an all-Michigan battle next weekend as Grand Valley State plays Ferris State in the next round.  We'll see if Ferris State can break the jinx and get beyond the 3rd round game.  They've bowed out the last two years in the first or second round game, and one of those after being rated No. 1 in the country for several weeks.

Any predictions for the MAC Championship Game at Ford Field this Friday? Western Michigan vs. Frank Solich's Ohio University team. 

[Mr. Ypsi]

Some interesting match-ups at the DIII playoffs continue.  I was surprised that Johns Hopkins didn't have an even better showing in their game as compared to previous years in their playoff games.  They seem to be like our MIAA and a couple of other conferences in having difficulty in advancing past the second round.  Anyway, I suspect it will be MHB vs. Mount and UW-W versus Oshkosh for the semis (unless St. Thomas sneaks back in there).

Regarding the DII playoffs, it will be an all-Michigan battle next weekend as Grand Valley State plays Ferris State in the next round.  We'll see if Ferris State can break the jinx and get beyond the 3rd round game.  They've bowed out the last two years in the first or second round game, and one of those after being rated No. 1 in the country for several weeks.

Any predictions for the MAC Championship Game at Ford Field this Friday? Western Michigan vs. Frank Solich's Ohio University team.

I'll go with WMU in a romp.  I think it's a shame they have no shot whatsoever at the playoffs, but they certainly deserve a New Year's Day type bowl.

I'll go to my grave convinced that UM beat OSU 27-24 today.  I saw the same replays that the officials saw (and I saw them on a big screen hi-def TV, not the I-Phone sized screen they use ).  Since it was the first set of downs from the 25, it was an easy call.  There is no way the ball ever came within six+ inches of the 15-yard line.  I think they lost their nerve with the thunder of boos that 'greeted' them even reviewing the spot - they feared they'd never leave the stadium alive if they denied the first down.  But it was NOT a first down; it was game over.

Because of the possibility of situations like that, I'm a firm believer that Harbaugh erred in not going for two in the first OT.  When on the road in a huge hostile stadium, go for the win, not the tie.  (I think going last in OT is a much bigger advantage than batting last in baseball.) With weapons like Darboh, Butt, Peppers, etc., they MUST have a play that gives a way over 50% chance of immediately winning, 25-24; and if it failed, a 24-23 loss would go down much better than having the game stolen.

[sigma one]

I have no dog in this hunt, being neither a Michigan or Ohio State fan, but there was no way the BALL ever made it to the 15-yard line.  The QB's head was there, and probably the tops of his shoulders, but not the ball.  I don't know what happened to the officials (I don't necessarily think they were intimidated by the crowd), but the best they could argue is that there was no "definitive" evidence to say that it was not a first down after their initial call.   Too bad that the game had to come down to the officials' judgment.
     On another matter, this involving EMU.  I have been friends with CC for many years, since he first arrived at Wabash.  How nice to see his success this year.  Now, if he can only keep it going . . .and I believe he will. 

[formerd3db]

I have no dog in this hunt, being neither a Michigan or Ohio State fan, but there was no way the BALL ever made it to the 15-yard line.  The QB's head was there, and probably the tops of his shoulders, but not the ball.  I don't know what happened to the officials (I don't necessarily think they were intimidated by the crowd), but the best they could argue is that there was no "definitive" evidence to say that it was not a first down after their initial call.   Too bad that the game had to come down to the officials' judgment.
     On another matter, this involving EMU.  I have been friends with CC for many years, since he first arrived at Wabash.  How nice to see his success this year.  Now, if he can only keep it going . . .and I believe he will.

sigma one and Mr. Ypsi:

I was not going to post anything about that (so as to not have people throwing darts and/or directing insults, negative comments, etc.,), however, since you had the courage enough to post your opinion here, I will now do the same.  And I readily admit that I do have bias (or "a dog in the hunt" to use your term/that old phrase ).  I agree with you 100%-there was no way the ball crossed and made that 1st down, and that is even being generous in giving the required "forward progress".  I, too, hate to see games come down to that and regardless, of whether or not some people will cite that obvious "that's just part of the game", it should not be.  Despite having instant replay, those who run that and the game officials still make egregious mistakes, and that was one of them.

Of course, there are going to be those detractors (i.e. read Ohio State supporters) who will argue the opposite and that Michigan lost because of their turnovers.  I readily admit that Michigan had their chances to win the game and if they had not fumbled on the 1/2 yard line, they would have won this game and we would not have been discussing this issue.  Those who disagree with us are right in that aspect only-don't make those types of mistakes, score in the red zone, then there is nothing to dispute-period.  However, while that is true, regardless of whether such actions and officials miscalls are "part of the game", that simply should not happen in this day and age.  It was obvious from the beginning that the officials were not going to give Michigan any breaks and their blatent miscalls-acutally non-calls were obvious.  This was not only mentioned by radio announcers (aside from being evident in wathcing on live televsion), and one of the Michigan announcers Dan Dierdorf, despite his being a Michigan alum player, is one of the most unbiased and fair announcers ever in the game (both in the pros and in college) and even he was of this same opinion.  Harbaugh is going to get fined for his comments about the officiating in his post-game press conference, but, aside from the fact that he has the right to say so in relating his opinion, he is right to mention it and I'm glad he broke the silence and did so-I would have done the same (besides, he can afford the fine anyway ). 

We've had this general discussion in the past and to those who say that there is no bias in officiating are simply wrong-it does occur.  It is just sad it situations like this will have a factor in the outcome of games-while rare, it continues to do so.  With instant reply, there is no way that should happen-period.  Michigan is out of the national playoff picture now, but still will go to a good bowl game and has had a great season, even if they lose in the bowl.  There are those who said this type of season would never occur for Michigan; this just proves that Harbaugh is, indeed, a very good coach.  One last comment; I think the ESPN crew yesterday in the studio for that game is one of the poorest around-those guys are terrible (I also admit that I am not a fan of ESPN, but that is a different story for another day).  Anyway. I've said my piece and will now wait for the detractors, the usual stone-throwers [and smiters, of course] .

[formerd3db]

Mr. Ypsi:

In additional comment, I do understand your reasoning about possibly going for the two-point conversion.  However, I guess I am just of the opposite opinion on those types of situations.  My philosophy is that, while it is nice and, yes, of courage, to go for the win in a big game like that, it is always better to tie the game and then have the opportunity to go at it again and either win the game or make them beat you.  Perhaps that is just a result of my being conservative in nature and perhaps also from my "defensive back" background.   Again, I would have had no problem with Ohio State beating Michigan yesterday with the former's last play had that miscall not have happened.  You are right-after that 4th down play-the game was over.

Let's hope EMU and Western don't face such officiating or questionable play calls in their bowl games!

[formerd3db]

Miscellaneous:

Olivet's attendance numbers for their five home games were 1005, 6175, 1085, 2005, 4025 = 14,395 total for average of 2,579.  Very good for them.

Hope's attendance for five home games was 3095, 1874, 2031, 1401, 1245 = 9,646 total for average of ~1,929.  Okay, but not great, although I personally believe there were more in attendance at the last two games.

For Pat:

I realize it is a lot of work, however, any plans that you (or one of your staff) will put together the average attendance list for all the DIII schools sometime in the off-season after the Stagg Bowl like you have for some years in the past?  That is always interesting to read, at least for us readers in the off-season.  If you aren't. I totally understand, however, if you end up doing it, thanks!

[Pat Coleman]

Miscellaneous:

Olivet's attendance numbers for their five home games were 1005, 6175, 1085, 2005, 4025 = 14,395 total for average of 2,579.  Very good for them.

Hope's attendance for five home games was 3095, 1874, 2031, 1401, 1245 = 9,646 total for average of ~1,929.  Okay, but not great, although I personally believe there were more in attendance at the last two games.

For Pat:

I realize it is a lot of work, however, any plans that you (or one of your staff) will put together the average attendance list for all the DIII schools sometime in the off-season after the Stagg Bowl like you have for some years in the past?  That is always interesting to read, at least for us readers in the off-season.  If you aren't. I totally understand, however, if you end up doing it, thanks!

It's actually not that much work for me, because mostly we're just republishing a news release the NCAA already issues. We just write a different first few paragraphs.

We haven't always gotten that story on the site because it comes during the heavy part of the basketball season, but now with me taking a huge step back on D3hoops.com there's no reason I shouldn't have the ability to get that on D3football.com in February or whenever it comes out.