FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[79jaybird]

ADAWG- Thank you and you strike up an interesting point.  Certainly Case, Carnegie Mellon, UChicago,  are all relatively closeby.  I have often wondered why Chicago doesn't try to enter the CCIW as they are pretty close to North Park, Elmhurst, Wheaton, and North Central.
Doubtful that Chicago would get into the CCIW seeing as how Benedictine's attempt/bid a few years ago was denied.
Besides Hope, who would be the second favorite to be near the top?  Alma Albion?

[sac]

The UAA is an academic conference, the only MIAA school that even belongs in the same breath as the UAA schools metioned is Kalamazoo.

[Mr. Ypsi]

The UAA is an academic conference, the only MIAA school that even belongs in the same breath as the UAA schools metioned is Kalamazoo.

And then only if they can claim WMU's research as their own!  UAA consists of major, private research universities.

Chicago would not be a fit in that sense for the CCIW either.

[formerd3db]

The UAA is an academic conference, the only MIAA school that even belongs in the same breath as the UAA schools metioned is Kalamazoo.

And then only if they can claim WMU's research as their own!  UAA consists of major, private research universities.

Chicago would not be a fit in that sense for the CCIW either.

The UAA is an academic conference, the only MIAA school that even belongs in the same breath as the UAA schools metioned is Kalamazoo.

You both have points, however, some people would legitimatly differ with you on that.  Hope has for years been a leader in annually receiving extremely important national research grants for sciences (for example chemistry, biology, etc., ) for some important US government research projects; in addition, Hope has had numerous profs appointed as major advisors to government administrators, including the President and others in the White House.  Obviously, the UAA has the well deserved reputation as major private research universities as has been noted, however, Hope (and Kazoo I presume) while less known on a common "national basis" indeed have been in these categories (perhaps not in the overall total $ count, but for sure a leader in such grants).  Just my $0.02 worth

[Superfoot Wallace]

Believe the UAA has an urban setting requirement as well.

signed,
Hillbilly Jim

[formerd3db]

Glad to see Hope ranked, however, not sure about that totally.  Also, as DAWG has mentioned, there are no plans to add another school to the MIAA in football at present.  Several of us had discussed this a couple of years ago or so when the Tri-State, WCL issues were in the "changing plans".  Calvin was approached about starting a football program, but refuses to do so (I will not bring up that "sore matter" again , although I personally disagree with that decision, but my opinion doesn't count nor carry any weight whatsoever ).  Other schools who might fit with the conference would be Spring Arbor or Concordia (Ann Arbor), however, they have no interest in starting football programs either.  The only other possibility would be Hillsdale (who as most of you know was a charter member of the MIAA and in until 1960), however, they prefer to stay at the DII level and rightly so.  Thus, the MIAA will be staying the same for at least quite some time, yet at least the AQ has been preserved and that was the goal with regard to the original expansion beginning with the Defiance trial.

[formerd3db]

Believe the UAA has an urban setting requirement as well.

signed,
Hillbilly Jim

Another good point MacLeod.

Signed,
Dennis Grady

[Mr. Ypsi]

The UAA is an academic conference, the only MIAA school that even belongs in the same breath as the UAA schools metioned is Kalamazoo.

And then only if they can claim WMU's research as their own!  UAA consists of major, private research universities.

Chicago would not be a fit in that sense for the CCIW either.

The UAA is an academic conference, the only MIAA school that even belongs in the same breath as the UAA schools metioned is Kalamazoo.

You both have points, however, some people would legitimatly differ with you on that.  Hope has for years been a leader in annually receiving extremely important national research grants for sciences (for example chemistry, biology, etc., ) for some important US government research projects; in addition, Hope has had numerous profs appointed as major advisors to government administrators, including the President and others in the White House.  Obviously, the UAA has the well deserved reputation as major private research universities as has been noted, however, Hope (and Kazoo I presume) while less known on a common "national basis" indeed have been in these categories (perhaps not in the overall total $ count, but for sure a leader in such grants).  Just my $0.02 worth

Hope (and presumably Kazoo, as well as some CCIW schools - IWU for sure, don't know which others) does indeed do some excellent research, but for better or for worse (IMO, for better!) are primarily liberal arts teaching colleges, not research universities.  Your highlighted sentence kind of gives it away: while doing excellent research, how can they be 'leaders' if not in the $ count?  That points to where the emphasis is.

Believe the UAA has an urban setting requirement as well.

signed,
Hillbilly Jim

I'm not sure that is a formal requirement, but it does seem to be the case.  The only d3 schools I can think of that would fit the UAA 'profile' (urban or not) would be Caltech (I suspect the UAA may already be far-flung enough!) and Johns Hopkins (do I recall correctly that they once WERE UAA - was their d1 status in lacrosse an issue?).  Most (if not all) NESCAC schools (and MANY other individual schools) are certainly the UAA's equal in academics (i.e., average SAT scores, etc.), but I can't think of any others with the research emphasis.  And, despite being a retired professor specializing in statistics and research methodology, that is NOT a defect of the other schools!

[Pat Coleman]

There's talk of Tufts and Catholic U. as UAA profile institutions as well.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

formerd3db:

Good to see you around, I havent read a post of yours in a while.  I dont know that the MIAA would want to see Hillsdale come back to the fold.  They far outweigh any MIAA school in funding and their facilities are top of the line which would be a huge edge in recruiting.  The only drawback they would suffer would be like Kzoo in that they have incredibly high academic standards and that would lose them some recruits.  The thing that would help is that they are already recruiting MIAA type kids, I know that I and some of the other Adrian coaches had some down to the wire recruiting battles with Hillsdale.  Their coaching staff would be another excellent asset as they are all great coaches, that is the only reason they win 5 games a year, its not necesarily the talent.

For the argument of the academic confrence, as much as that is the case, the confrence alignment is for athletics over anything else.  The fact that they are all small private colleges is the key.  I will grant that all 4 UAA schools trump many of the schools in the MIAA in academics, but for sure Hope and Kzoo are up there with them.  For athletics it would seem to be a good fit as both confrences would receive some new blood and competition, Im sure Carnegie Melon would have been quite a challenge in the MIAA(the game film I broke down on them was impressive).

[Mr. Ypsi]

There's talk of Tufts and Catholic U. as UAA profile institutions as well.

I confess that I didn't know either of them had that degree of research emphasis.  Is this a hint that either is considering such a move (or just an observation regarding their orientation)?

[And apologies to MIAA posters for temporarily hijacking the board!]

[D306]

Question a little off topic of Football but about the MIAA Sports all the same.

I have a daughter whom has the grades to get into most any college she is considering, her decision is if she wants to stay here in Michigan or go out of state.

Secondly is to play Softball or not and at what level.

If she chooses to stay local it is U of M or a MIAA school she thinks ( at least today, Teenage girls!!! ) No real playing time at U of M IF BIG IF she makes the team. What MIAA school has the best Softball program? ( I think Alma has been on a run recently) She is looking at Hope, Kazoo, and  possibly Albion academically. Hillsdale is an outside chance for GLIAC school.

She has not filed with the NCAA yet, still up and down about playing in College. Wants to Study abroad and Intern if at all possible.

I have spoken with her about needing to focus on what she wants to acheive in College. Something has to give.
I will support either path she chosses and help her reach these goals if I can.

[Pat Coleman]

I have no info on either seeking a move. Catholic was more of the talk when Johns Hopkins was playing its half-UAA schedule, but I think it was an athletic department desire that the university administration wouldn't fund.

New university administration must be willing to fund something, since Landmark travel will be more costly than CAC travel.

[formerd3db]

Mr. Ypsi:

Good to hear from you, friend.  I understand your points.  Just some brief follow-up comments.  For Hope, it has never been about the $, but rather the pride in the fact that its well known science, pre-professional programs (and to some extent its religious and politcal programs) are annually awarded research grants for a long time.  Also, it is conceivable that a school could be a leader in research by the number of grants it receives and yet not be the leader in total $ received for those.  Admittedly, I do not know the totals off-hand for Hope, nor am I suggesting that is the case with them.  However, my point was simply that compared to other MIAA schools and schools its size, Hope is a nationally recognized leader in research grants and variety of types.  Also, neither Hope nor any other MIAA school sees itself in the category as the UAA research universities.  As you pointed out, Hope and the MIAA schools are liberal arts teaching colleges and always will be and will always promote themselves in that light with regard to research grants, etc.  As for the athletics comparison UAA/MIAA are entirely different stories/approach.

As to whoever gave me the "neg" karma; I suspect it was for the Calvin comment (although perhaps it could have been for the above discussion topic).  Regardless, that was opinion with no personal attacks or negative conotations and as such a neg karma is out-of-line.  I even posted a  for levity.  Come on, people, chill out.  I don't do that to any of you for such reasons.

DAWG:
Good to hear from you as well.  Indeed, I have not been as active in posting of recent here on the board - a lot is going on in my life right now (but then, it is as well for everyone else here I know!).  At any rate, I agree with your assessment on Hillsdale.  Like you mention about Adrian, I know they have competed against Hope for some of the same football recruits.  However, recruits still see Hillsdale as the next level DII despite Hillsdale still having many of the same attributes that our MIAA DIII schools have.  Hillsdale itself will never return because they want to continue to be at their current perceived DII level and it is a very good college.  BTW, in a related topic, a UAA/MIAA combination will never occur either.  Nonetheless, camparisons make for great conversation/discussions on here.  Take care and keep in touch.

D306:

Indeed, Alma has had the best softball program in the league in the last decade or so.  Coach Denny Griffin has taken them to the next level to where they are nationally recognized almost annually now.  They should have won the national title 4-5 years ago or so when they made it to the final four.  Of course, Hope and Kazoo as you mention (and also Calvin and Olivet) have good programs - heck all the MIAA schools do.  Coach Farnum at Olivet has tremendously improved that program and taken it to another level.  They will have new facilities soon there to continue their athletic complex upgrade.  Hope, of course, will have the best softball complex stadium in the league as it's new concourse is under construciton (see their website for details).

While Hope (and the other MIAA schools) have opportunities for overseas study, of course, Kazoo is the recognized leader in that aspect.  As for comparing big vs. small schools, obviously if you daughter was to go to a U of M and make the team, the experience and atmosphere is entirely different as you well know.  I would opt for the DIII experience, but obviously, she has to make up here own mind.  IMO, campus visits and "the tour" are a MUST.  Go walk the campuses, meet with the coaches and current student-athletes as well as academic advisors, see the facilities - we took our daughter on this type tour several times for various schools in 3 different states - 13 schools in 2 1/2 days on one trip.  That is the only way to compare; it will also come down to her deciding if she wants to make the commitment to do both athletics/academics.  A big time commitment, but much fun and a life preparing experience in many ways if one chooses to do it.  Anyway, all best wishes to her (and you) in going through the process as she eventually makes her decision.  Please keep us posted.

Well, all, I guess I've managed to make this long enough.  That should make up for the lag in the recent past, now, shouldn't it DAWG?!!!   Talk to you all later.

Your colleague/friend,
formerd3db

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

formerd3db:

How do you give people Karma?  I have seen the numbers and wondered how that works.