FB: Michigan Intercollegiate Athletic Association

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

sac:

Obviously comparing the golden era of any college with the coach who comes after is not quite fair.  Pete Schmidt was on a whole other level when he was at Albion and his teams demonstrated that.  But to say that ALbion is a program where fans should be losing interest in the head coach now is not right.  I dont think Albion fans know how good they have it or know how bad it could be, when 5-5 is one of your worst seasons then its not all bad, look around the rest of the league and compare.  The grass is always greener on the other side, but I dont know that Albion would find a coach more commited to winning, commited to his players or commited to Albion college than the coach that they currently have. 

[rome]

Interesting topic here:
Was the domination of the MIAA by Albion a result of superior coaching, OR did they simply out-recruit the rest of the conference?
Since the departure of Pete S. I do not believe the MIAA has a single playoff win. 
(sidenote: '94 by Albion went through both Mount Union & St. Johns)

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

rome:

I would have to say it was a result of both the coaching and recruiting.  There is no doubt that Pete Schmidt was an excellent coach, as noted by his movement to higher levels and the success that he was able to have at Albion as well considering he won over 78% of his games there and won MIAA titles from 1989-1996.  The talent level at Albion from what I understand was also amazing.  When you look at any DIII national champ even back in the early 90's they had and have players that could play at higher divisions.  It is my understanding that Albion had several players that year who were getting attention from NFL scouts and it has been the opinion of coaches in the league that I talk to as well that many of Albions players could definetly have played at a higher collegiate level.  While coach Rundle has done a very good job recruiting, it could be said that Rundles first two MIAA champion teams were won with Schmidts players as Schmidt would have recruited the upperclassmen on those teams(JR's, Sr's.).  However Rundle also won a title on his own in 2001 and 2005 (oh how quickly Albion fans forget success).  Thats just my take as I am hardly an Albion insider.  It would be nice to hear from someone with a bit more intimate knowledge on the subject.

[sac]

First, Pete Schmidt was a terrific coach/person, they still talk very highly of him around Albion.

Second, Albion did have superior talent compared to the rest of the MIAA but it was nothing overwhelming, such as a Mount Union level.  The 94 team that won the NCAA Championship completely waxed the MIAA.

Adrian 60-18
Olivet 65-8
Hope 35-12
Alma 26-0
Kalamazoo 34-7

(I specifically remember the Hope game, I believe it was 35-0 at halftime, it was supposed to be the game for the MIAA crown.)

When they got to the playoffs they beat Augustana by 7, Mt. Union by 1, and St. John's by 3 before blowing up Washington and Jefferson for the title.  Very talented team for sure, but they weren't head and shoulders more talented than other title contenders in D3, just much more talented than the MIAA.

During their 11 time run as MIAA Champs or Co-Champs Albion went 1-4 in NCAA tournament games minus the 94 run, and didn't get an invite to the tournament 6 times when they won at least a piece of the MIAA.

I haven't seen alot of MIAA football but I've seen enough Hope/Albion games to know, Albion was always a bit bigger, stronger, faster and deeper than Hope was.  I think that was fairly typical of the last decade or so of the Schmidt era.

[blb]

Pete Schmidt was a great all-round coach, but he also was working for a college where having a winning football program was important (the previous coach, alum Frank Joranko, was let go because he didn't win enough).

So Albion was moving forward in the 80s-90s under a top-notch leader while the rest of the MIAA was more or less status quo.

In the last dozen or so years, most of the other schools have done things to make their programs more competitive.

So Rundle's biggest flaws are he's not Pete Schmidt and is competing on a more level playing field. And yes,  I know his personality can be prickly.

[HOF]

Wow...just joined the board through the Albion conversation out there and here we are now.

I'll chime in.

Pete Schmidt was a great guy and coach.  A guy that was so driven by winning, it was unreal.  I remember attending his funeral on the campus of Albion and seeing a who's who in college football coaching....Schembechler, Carr, Moeller, Saban, Perles, etc.

Here is my two cents:

1)  He had the president on his side.  Meaning, borderline kids got into school.  That isn't happening too much anymore around there.  I'm not defending Rundle and saying he can't win because of this, but it has and is a well know fact, Pete said and told some upper level people...hey I need this kid and guess what he got them in.  Pete might have been the most powerful person on the campus, I'm serious. That is why when he left I'm sure the others said we aren't letting this guy run this place.

2)  The players were much better during his time.  Yes this is true.  You know why.  Grand Valley wasn't a national power yet, either was Saginaw Valley, or Northwood.  The GLIAC didn't get back together until 1999.  Ferris State had a run from like 1992-1997, but they didn't steal DIII kids.  I think the GLIAC now steals them and this is why the MIAA is down in talent.  Is there talent...yes great talent in the MIAA, but not like it use to be.  Those kids now are walk-ons in the GLIAC.  Which is sad, because they could help some of our MIAA teams compete in the NCAA playoffs.

3)  He could coach.  That man could coach.  That is why he left for Indiana with Cam Cameron.  Cam Cameron was quoted as saying Pete Schmidt is the best football mind I've ever been around.  Pretty strong words for a guy who himself is now the head coach for the Miami Dolphins and was coaching with guys named Schembechler and Carr, etc during those times.  Well maybe not Carr in that group....haaaa.

4)  He could recruit.  That is pretty plain and simple.  The great players like Robinson, Montego, Lefere, Taylor.  Guys who should've and could've played at much higher levels.  I can't forget James Debadalden (sp) back in the day.  I think spent some time in the league.  A FS that was 6-4 225 and could play.  Robinson was a great RB that might've played a tad in the NFL or had tryouts.  Montego was a solid QB.  The kid they won the National Championship, Klein, was a freshman QB from a Class D high school.  Hank Weimann, a RB, who was 5-4 or something like that.  Help me Albion fans. My memory fails at my age.

Do I think Rundle is a good coach.  Yes I do.  You must understand football to see that.  That might be the one thing that bugs me, people who judge coaches.  If you understand the game, then you can talk, but if not, don't say a word.  Rundle can coach with anybody in America.  I say that not being an Albion fan.  His teams are always well prepared, provide numerous looks to others and have great special teams.  Maybe some years better than others, but all in all a quality program, year in and year out.

He does rub some people wrong, but who cares.  He's trying to win..and win he does.  I wouldn't want to be living in the shadow of one of the greatest coaches in DIII history.  I say that with great pride, meaning one of our own from the MIAA is one of the greatest in the game and his name was Pete Schmidt.

[rome]

Let us not forget the OC for Albion who set school records for points and yardage...Coach Purtill who has a dynasty going for him in the MWC at St. Norberts. Since 1999 he has won or shared 7/8 conference titles and scored a playoff victory. Not bad.

I guess Albion minus Pete and Purtill means they moved back towards the pack a little.

Random Question:

Are there any D3 schools in the UP? and If so could they/would they be conviced to  play Football in the MIAA--a great number of athletes in the UP--just curious

[Uncle Rico]

I am relatively new to this forum, and D3 football, but this seems like a great site for information. 

My son just graduated from high school and is going to be playing football at Tri-State.  He met with coaches from a number of schools, and chose Tri-State because of their engineering program and he really like the coaching staff at Tri-State.  I met the coaches and they seem like a good group of guys.  I have seen just a limited number of posts about them, and I know they haven't exactly tore the league up (yet     ).  I have not followed the program too much up until now.  What is the word on Tri-State?  Thanks!

[miaafbfan]

There is one DIII school in the UP:  Finlandia University.  They do not sponsor a football team.  They are a provisional member of NCAA after reinstating intercollegiate athletics in 1999.  They offer women's basketball, ice hockey, cross country, Nordic skiing, soccer, softball, and volleyball.  They have men's basketball, ice hockey, Nordic Skiing, cross country, baseball, and soccer.  Their hockey teams are members of conferences, but other teams are independent and "currently seeking membership in several regional conferences." 

Perhaps they should add football to even up the number of men's and women's teams to 7 each?  Being at the western end of the UP (in Hancock), it would be closer for them to head down into Wisconsin to compete.  And as mentioned here before, it is costly to start a fb program.

[formerd3db]

blb:

I would respectfully differ with you slightly regarding Frank Jorenko.  He was also a good coach and while he may have not had the winning % that Schmidt did, his teams were well coached and tough.  He was not let go because he didn't win enough, rather he had planned to retire about the time he did and the plan all along when he brought Schmidt as his assistant/associate head coach was for Pete to take over the reigns after a couple of years or so.  JOrenko selected Schmidt for all the reasons that HOF mentioned in his post.  Plus, there were some good Okemos, MI/Albion connections associated with that.  As I recall, Jorenko wanted to gradually slide out of coaching ranks (i.e. including his baseball head coaching position) and concentrate on the athletic administration aspects at Albion as he did (similar to the late great Morely Fraser).   

[formerd3db]

Uncle Rico:  Welcome to the board.

[blb]

db, you may be right. However, I was told by a coach who had worked with Joranko at Ferndale HS prior to his Albion days, and remained close with him, that he was eased out of the football job by the college administration (he coached baseball for awhile longer).

The version of events you recount may have been to put the best possible spin on a delicate situation for public consumption. Or they may be factual.

Regardless, as HOF points out, Albion made commitments to its football program that put it ahead of the MIAA competition at that time.

[Ralph Turner]

I am relatively new to this forum, and D3 football, but this seems like a great site for information. 

My son just graduated from high school and is going to be playing football at Tri-State.  He met with coaches from a number of schools, and chose Tri-State because of their engineering program and he really like the coaching staff at Tri-State.  I met the coaches and they seem like a good group of guys.  I have seen just a limited number of posts about them, and I know they haven't exactly tore the league up (yet     ).  I have not followed the program too much up until now.  What is the word on Tri-State?  Thanks!

Uncle Rico, welcome to the boards.

The best information that I can give you will come in the annual football e-magazine that Pat Coleman and Keith McMillan produce called "Kickoff".

It will cost under $10.00, but it will cover all 240 schools.  The proceeds of the sales will be used to fund the operations of the websites.

You don't see any pop-ups on these sites because of the revenue from Kickoff.  Its purchase is one significant way for us fans to support D3sports.

[formerd3db]

blb:

The information was provided to me personally by some Albion College administrators and coaches as well as other persons, all of whom were close/involved with the situation and who I knew as well (including Jorenko).  As you mention, perhaps it may have been some of both.

Reminiscing a bit, some of you may remember back then, the MIAA was just emerging into experiencing some national spotlights and post-season play when the MIAA relieved it's longstanding ban on the latter in 1977.  Jorenko's 1976 and 1977 teams were excellent teams with the 1977 team being the first MIAA team to be selected for the playoffs in the "new era" (actually, that should be the first team allowed to go as Hope's 1975 team was considered to be selected but could not participate; Albion's 1976 may have been also).  While Hope and Adrian were dominant in the next 5-6 years after the Albion 1977 team, there were only 8 playoff spots available during that time and difficult for MIAA teams to get (of which perhaps a couple of them should have - Adrian ranked in the top 8 one year and Hope's undefeated team of 1984 as some may recall). 

Regardless, Albion did make some commitments to their fb program as you point out that perhaps other schools were not willing to make at the time.  As has been mentioned, during Schmidt's tenure, they had some tremendous teams and gave our MIAA some national attention.  Hopefully, the league can return to providing a more prominant showing in the fb playoffs, although that task will not be easy for a variety of reasons as many have discussed in the past on this board.

[ADAWGISADAWG4LIFE]

unclerico:

Welcome to the board!  TSU is a program with some very good coaches who work hard and believe strongly in doing things the right way.  One of my friends is actually a coach down there and they are truly pointing that program in the right direction for the future.  I hope your son enjoys DIII and that you do as well it is a great environment to spend 4 years of college in.

formerd3db:

That is a great bit of MIAA history, I was not aware that the MIAA even had a ban on post season play, but then again I was -5 at the time of it being repealed.